on a lighter note, i have a wittmann coffee cup. he is in a black panzer uniform with his knight's cross, his 007 tiger and his signature.
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Military history and past events only. Rants or inflamitory comments will be removed.
Military history and past events only. Rants or inflamitory comments will be removed.
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Michel Wittmann
Posted: Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 02:41 AM UTC
thank you. i don't want to demean any soldiers exploits in battle, but as i said i was focusing in on one warrior imparticular. i have read of chesty puller, macarthur, york, grant, napoleon, frederick the great, louis the xvi. and other great warriors.
on a lighter note, i have a wittmann coffee cup. he is in a black panzer uniform with his knight's cross, his 007 tiger and his signature.
on a lighter note, i have a wittmann coffee cup. he is in a black panzer uniform with his knight's cross, his 007 tiger and his signature.
sgtreef
Member Since: March 01, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 03:16 AM UTC
Quoted Text
thank you. i don't want to demean any soldiers exploits in battle, but as i said i was focusing in on one warrior imparticular. i have read of chesty puller, macarthur, york, grant, napoleon, frederick the great, louis the xvi. and other great warriors.
on a lighter note, i have a wittmann coffee cup. he is in a black panzer uniform with his knight's cross, his 007 tiger and his signature.
Cool where did you get that mug?.And take no offense to anything said here, As you said every country had it's heros that rose above the rest but remember it took a WHOLE BUNCH of NONAME JOES to help who ever it was get their. Be it the first guy that died at Normandy or the first German or Russian who died at the begining of Barbarossa. Hitlers Biggest mistake was spliting his army when driving towards Stalingrad if Stalingrad had fallen whos know would of won the war with only one front. Second mistake was changing his mind about invading England. Third mistake using Non german soldiers for flanks cost him dearly on that one when they all flee. there are more but that is enough. Have a safe and Happy Holiday. And don't forget to thank the NONAME JOE for your FREEDOM
Jeff
Arthur
Member Since: March 13, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 04:08 AM UTC
Jeff...completly endorse reply but for one thing,Germany treated its allies at Stalingrad,
and elsewhere,with contempt,they were strung out with very little to defend themselves
with,and despite that,a lot of them gave a very good account of themselves
Cheers
Arthur
am alba mannich
and elsewhere,with contempt,they were strung out with very little to defend themselves
with,and despite that,a lot of them gave a very good account of themselves
Cheers
Arthur
am alba mannich
m60a3
Member Since: March 08, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 04:14 AM UTC
Quoted Text
thank you. i don't want to demean any soldiers exploits in battle, but as i said i was focusing in on one warrior imparticular. i have read of chesty puller, macarthur, york, grant, napoleon, frederick the great, louis the xvi. and other great warriors.
on a lighter note, i have a wittmann coffee cup. he is in a black panzer uniform with his knight's cross, his 007 tiger and his signature.
Excellent! I plan on making that version of the Tiger, and I have the DML figure set to boot.
BTW...I have a wav file of Panzerlied on my computer...every so often I play it at work People think I inhaled too much diesel as a youth..
Posted: Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 04:37 AM UTC
thanks bob and jeff, i appreciate your views. i just like the looks of german equipment and uniforms. sure the allies won, but the stuff they used bored me. wittmann in his black panzer jacket cuts quite a figure. khaki looks ugly in comparison.
Ob Sturm oder Schneit.............................. :-)
Ob Sturm oder Schneit.............................. :-)
Arthur
Member Since: March 13, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 04:42 AM UTC
cant beat a Saville Row cut
Arthur
am alba mannich
Arthur
am alba mannich
screamingeagle
Member Since: January 08, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 12:31 PM UTC
As much as I admire The German soldiers and Michael Wittman - and
yes he was a Tank Ace with an extensive kill ratio - BUT:
I would have to put Btn. Commander Creighton Abrams of the
37th Tank Btn.- U.S. 4th Armored Div. as my choice for Best
Let me spill the facts:
Wittman never knocked out a tank superior to his own
Abramas & his M4 crew during combat knocked out
40 panzers in 6 months time, Most were Pz. Kpfw V - Panthers which
were far more superior in armor & firepower than the inferior M4 Sherman.
He also was the leader of an entire tank battalion, and well respected
THERES GOOD REASON WHY THEY NAME A TANK AFTER A WAR HERO !
- ralph
yes he was a Tank Ace with an extensive kill ratio - BUT:
I would have to put Btn. Commander Creighton Abrams of the
37th Tank Btn.- U.S. 4th Armored Div. as my choice for Best
Let me spill the facts:
Wittman never knocked out a tank superior to his own
Abramas & his M4 crew during combat knocked out
40 panzers in 6 months time, Most were Pz. Kpfw V - Panthers which
were far more superior in armor & firepower than the inferior M4 Sherman.
He also was the leader of an entire tank battalion, and well respected
THERES GOOD REASON WHY THEY NAME A TANK AFTER A WAR HERO !
- ralph
Posted: Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 12:55 PM UTC
and....................................................
Posted: Saturday, May 25, 2002 - 10:59 AM UTC
t o ralph,
feel free to start a Creighton Abrams thread.
feel free to start a Creighton Abrams thread.
sourkraut
Member Since: May 11, 2002
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Posted: Saturday, May 25, 2002 - 12:01 PM UTC
i think id still have to go with wittman 
screamingeagle
Member Since: January 08, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, May 26, 2002 - 01:13 AM UTC
Quoted Text
i think id still have to go with wittman
Both Allied & Axis had their share of good Tank Ace's during W.W.II
But lets not forget other German tankers.
Such as from the Heers sPz.Abt.502:
- Oberleutnant Otto Carius ( 150 Tanks kills ).
- Hauptmann Johannes Bolter ( 144 Tanks kills ).
- Feldwebel Albert Kerscher ( 100 Tank kills ).
They all were awarded The Knight's Cross also.
The point is, all these men did their duty and showed
courage and made sacrifices for their country.
Arthur
Member Since: March 13, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, May 26, 2002 - 01:53 AM UTC
lets not forget what a tank kill meant,so!heres to the killers of the tank killers
Arthur
Am alba mannich
Arthur
Am alba mannich
KFMagee
Member Since: January 08, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, May 26, 2002 - 04:14 AM UTC
Interesting thread... I've read a lot of books, and want to throw in my two cents worth... from a purely technical philosophy, the Americans were unique in that they built a variety of tanks all utilizing similar parts throughout the series... great idea.... the Germans by far built the best tanks overall for the purpose of their design - an offensive unit desiged to be supported BY infantry, while the allies used infantry supported by TANKS... very different concepts. The English and Germans were historically, (and rightly so in my mind) viewed as the best professional soldiers, followed by the Japanese, Americans, and Australians. The Italians and Russians were poorly regarded in most all accounts, but both of them also had some elite divisions. The key thing where America really held the aces was in ARTILLARY... we were not going to win the war with our Tanks vs Their tanks... and it is possibly argues that our infantry wouldn't have beaten their infantry... but while the Germans has the wonderful 88, the Americans had the best shells, and some of the most accurate artillary weapons. We beat the german mechanized army with our artillary.... hard for me to say that (former SEAL!), but the best and brightest the US had was devoted to the Artillary - the germans have often stated our air power turned the tide in the war, but the thing that hammered the nail in the coffin were our reliable, innumerable, and very powerful upper end artillary pieces... long live the M-12!
The shelling may now commence!
Keith Magee
The shelling may now commence!
Keith Magee
Arthur
Member Since: March 13, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, May 26, 2002 - 04:55 AM UTC
First shot over your bows Keith,the other half of the "English"army.lives over Hadrians Wall
not to mention the Welsh and Irish.
Arthur
Am Alba mannich
not to mention the Welsh and Irish.
Arthur
Am Alba mannich
Posted: Sunday, May 26, 2002 - 11:13 AM UTC
to kfmagee, i agree with you. arthur, the scots were always better than the brits. screamingeagle, the other tank aces were great to(like count von strachwitz). thanks for the good thoughts guys.
screamingeagle
Member Since: January 08, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, May 26, 2002 - 02:19 PM UTC
Quoted Text
it is possibly argues that our infantry wouldn't have beaten their infantry
Keith Magee
Hi Keith, very respectfully I can give an arguement.
Men win wars my friend not machines.
We won plenty of infantry battles.
Most Importantly - it was infantry that conquered the Atlantic Wall !
- Ya know - " the almighty " " unconquerable " Atlantic wall !
What about the "Battle of the Hedgerows" - Carentan - Mortain - Aachen -
Remagen - St Lo - Bastogne - St Mere Eglise - & Coutance, just for starters.
It was U.S 101st & 82nd Airborne infantry who dropped in behind the beaches and
knocked out German heavy artillery batteries that were shelling the invasion force at
Utah & Omaha.
At Carentan, the 501st & 506th PIR / 101st Airborne ( alone with limited AT weapons & ammo ) against the, the 37th & 38th SS Panzergrenadier Regiments / 17.SS GvB Div. and Von der Heydte's elite Fallschirmjager 6th Para Regiment , are another fine example of U.S. infantry leading the way, and holding Carentan in the face of elite German soldiers & armor, until the 2nd Armored Div had arrived in support and took the town.
Read some good book's talk to 50 or so W.W.II Allied veterans from infantry regiments, and see if you still feel the same about that quote.
Air Assaults & Artiillery might soften up behind the enemies lines, but who has to go in
an clean up the resistance & the other half of the enemy who were in bunkers & shelters ?
Who had to go into all those little European towns and perform house to house combat ?:
..........INFANTRY !
Artillery & Air power was ONE FACTOR BUT NOT THE FACTOR OF WINNING
W.W.II - All in All, it was a combined team effort of Infantry, Armor, Artillery, & Air Power.
- ralph
Posted: Sunday, May 26, 2002 - 11:46 PM UTC
true, but it was a huge factor. hard to fight a dead man blasted by shells and bombs.
screamingeagle
Member Since: January 08, 2002
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Posted: Monday, May 27, 2002 - 12:51 AM UTC
Quoted Text
true, but it was a huge factor. hard to fight a dead man blasted by shells and bombs.
No I'm talking about well trained U.S. soldiers who went into their first combat against live "battle hardened" German soldiers. - And we were victorious not them.
You make it sound as if we were lucky. Well open your eye's: luck does not win a war !
Our airborne troops were more intensely trained than most Germans and that's a fact..
We won W.W.II cause we had good soldiers who never even thought of the word surrender.
- ralph
Posted: Monday, May 27, 2002 - 05:46 AM UTC
german soldiers had the ultimate basic training- the russian front.
ponysoldier
Member Since: March 13, 2002
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Posted: Monday, May 27, 2002 - 10:35 AM UTC
I firmly believe that what Ralph has said is correct.When it comes to taking ground
or holding ground it requires infantry. Ours happen premier in that field every thing
else takes a supporting role.
ponysoldier
The Horse The Gun The Man
or holding ground it requires infantry. Ours happen premier in that field every thing
else takes a supporting role.
ponysoldier
The Horse The Gun The Man
Tankera1
Member Since: May 05, 2002
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Posted: Monday, May 27, 2002 - 10:42 AM UTC
Our battalion commander was inspecting our company one day. He came to our platoon and was asking each tanker a question about gunnery or tanking in general. He came to me and asked in his deep and gruff voice, "Sergent, who is the greatest tanker who ever lived?" Being somewhat aggressive and confident I bellowed back, "Sir, I am the greatest tanker who ever lived!" I was informed by the bat commander that it was Wittmann. I had to give a class on Wittmann to the platoon. I still am not convinced.
screamingeagle
Member Since: January 08, 2002
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Posted: Monday, May 27, 2002 - 12:06 PM UTC
Quoted Text
german soldiers had the ultimate basic training- the russian front.
I agree PaK, and I ain't trying to cut you down, or knock the German soldiers.
They were an elite, battle hardened, very well trained Military.
I'm just laying down the facts of what was. We had the edge.
- ralph
screamingeagle
Member Since: January 08, 2002
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Posted: Monday, May 27, 2002 - 12:12 PM UTC
Quoted Text
When it comes to taking ground or holding ground it requires infantry.
ponysoldier
Well spoken Pony !
screamingeagle
Member Since: January 08, 2002
entire network: 1,027 Posts
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Posted: Monday, May 27, 2002 - 12:20 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Our battalion commander was inspecting our company one day. He came to our platoon and was asking each tanker a question about gunnery or tanking in general. He came to me and asked in his deep and gruff voice, "Sergent, who is the greatest tanker who ever lived?" Being somewhat aggressive and confident I bellowed back, "Sir, I am the greatest tanker who ever lived!" I was informed by the bat commander that it was Wittmann. I had to give a class on Wittmann to the platoon. I still am not convinced.
Kool story Tank ! (LOL) I like it.
So what kind of Tanks were you assigned too ?
I also want to say - THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE & PROTECTING OUR FREEDOM.
I SALUTE YOU, HAPPY MEMORIAL DAY !
- ralph persico
Posted: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 10:17 AM UTC
michel wittmann in my mind was the best and if he had as much support as the american soldiers did, i feel he and his comrades would have driven the allies back into the sea.
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