Ok guys I have a question and I need your thoughts and ideas. Let’s say a friend was to open an on-line model shop. What I’d like to know is what you are buying…

For the time being he only selling modern AFV and Aircraft kits. As for the aftermarket resin, PE, decals and paints well that will come later. For the time being modern kits, let’s say Vietnam to present.

Also would you guys be willing to buy on-line as most do, and if you’re looking for something particular (anything resin, PE, decals ) would you shop here and be willing to wait the extra day or so for that item.

Justen will stock many of the newer Trumpeter, Tamiya, AFV, Hobbyboss and so on. Most popular scales from 1/72 to 1/32.

Shipping…how important is it to you. Well lets just say you’ll get a great deal if not a better deal.

Justen is looking to fine out what model kits you guy would be willing to buy and what scale, so give us your thoughts.

Happy Modeling,
Section 8 Hobbies

Hi Joe!
I'll gladly give you my 2 c on that!
I returned to the hobby a couple of years ago, after many years and I find that the market is quite changed in the while.
Here in Italy it seems that not many young people are interested in the hobby anymore and also local shpos are closing in favour of large malls (still relatively new here in Italy). As a consequence of it, it is harder and harder to find kits and accessories if you are not living in big cities or willing to spend an hour or two just for travelling to the shop and back.
So internet is a very welcome way of shopping.
In the 2 years I spent modelling I noticed that price difference from internet and shops are very little (the biggest opportunity here is to shop in a different currency and as the euro is somewhat 1,5 times the dollar it means a cheaper buy for me if I buy in the Us or in Asia). But then shipping charges comes in and those tend to close the gap, so I usaually try to place a bundle order to spread the shipping cost through different items.
So delivery times is for me less important: as I shop abroad I know I have to wait (also Italian Postal service is not world known for it speed delivery) and I am used to it .
Apart form the price and shipping cost convenience, I think that your friend's shop should have a broad range of items, easy to use interface (with big product pictures), referenced itams to speed up the reserch (i.e.: scale, producer, time period, nationality) and, possibly, links to reviews of the items.
I hope my thought could help him get started!
Take care!
ciao
Edo

I agree with Edoardo on the cost + shipping versus speed of delivery. Most IMHO on-line shoppers buying from a continent away do not expect next day delivery. And they do think of those things... My LHS is not local, so I buy mostly on-line. From US or Asia for value knowing I have to wait, or from within EU for speed of delivery but higher cost. All depends on the item and my own desperation.

Most important thing is for the site to be easy to use and navigate/search. Also must be able to know what available; None of the "in stock" v "available" Mullarkey we sometimes see. And the stcok levels must be accurate. There is nothing worse, whether models or books, than to place an order of a few items to reduce postage that to be told a fwe days later one item is out-of-stock and the whole order is delayed.

Fair shipping cost is very important to me. I guess you have to consider the cost of the box and packaging materials but I quit on an order I was building at one online store that was 2 booklets and a PE set of $30 with $9.00 shipping. Similar story at another shop 20 miles away here in Dallas.

Or maybe the postal service has just changed all their rates. Can't ship a kit size box for anything less than $8-9 anymore.

I agree on the accurate stock level.

Paul

I'd echo the previous- I HATE placing an order for something, only to find after that order was accepted, that the item is not in stock. It's happened, and I don't return there!

Be prepared to clearly state shipping prices and policies, return policies, etc. Better to know than to find out after the fact!

SERVICE and problem-resolution are a big plus. NOBODY likes to deal with folks who won't address the questions or problems that will come up.

As for what to stock...

Actually, this whole thread is mighty interesting, as I am thinking on opening some form of model store as a sort of post-career... maybe as bricks-n-mortar (OK, I'm an old romantic and still like to go to shops and fondle plastic and talk with proprietors and the like ) - and there ARE recently-opened shops who are actually doing good biz in this genre!

Anyway - stock?

I am currently doing a few things to learn what types of stuff actually are selling well. One route is to track eBay - see which brands and kits go for better prices and get more bids (reflects level of interest, but also a couple of other things...). Another is to go to model shows and see what vendors are hawking successfully - see what moves and what fails. And chat with the modellers there! find out what they like, as they are amongst the likely clients. Another is to chat with your local hobby club members- (IF you are contemplating any sort of local market this could help - if only e-, the answers might reflect a local or regional enthusiasm versus a wider interest). Another is to see what the reviewers are saying... if a kit gets pretty flabby reviews, I would probably be less-inclined to fill my space with it. Well-reviewed kits which get a "popular subject" vote seem like more-likely sellers. STOCK takes SPACE and ties up MONEY!

Of course, forums and sites like this one are great places to see what modellers ARE interested in. I visit Track-link and see in their Galleries maybe a hundred StuG builds... Guess StuGs (and StuG accessories) might be a plausible market-sector!

Just some opinions! Good Luck!

Justen knows the retail business all to well, that’s what he does in the real world. So far the opinions you guys have suggested have help and he has taken notes.

Now as to the modern stuff well Justen is selling some of the WWII kits, but for the time being it is mostly modern. What’s going to happen is as the products sells the money will be circulated back into the shop adding a broader range of products which will include paints, tools and such.

As to the website, it’s going to be great from what I hear, no BS as most of you voiced. The products listed will include a photo and as time goes on a review section.

I won’t say much more as Justen is reading all comments and will chime in real soon to explain more in detail the how’s, what’s and when’s .

Happy Modeling,
Joe

I buy most of my kits from Ebay these days. The only drawback is the shipping costs. As for modern aircraft, I'm starting to get WAY into that. Kinda getting burnt out with the WW2 stuff. If your friend has competitive prices and the shipping isn't crazy, I'd give him a shot. 1/48 is my preference and mostly modern US aircraft.


Hermon

Here's the question...what kits and brands would you like to see and buy.

Thanks!
Joe

Price is the most important issue for me. I don't care if I have to wait two weeks for something to arrive if I can get it 30% cheaper.

I order from Lucky Model sometimes even though I have 3 local hobby vendors because I can save so much money, they give free shipping and I'm not in a hurry to receive the product.

I rarely buy anything retail except for Legend Productions, Blast Models and a few other odds and ends. I patiently prowl the web looking for great deals from people looking to get rid of stuff or ebay. As an example, I've bought a lot of Tamiya Humvee's for $9.00 to $15.00 each as opposed to paying anywhere from $25.00 to $35.00 from on-line vendors. I look consistently and am patient in my hunt.

The great thing about the webstore concept is that you don't have the overhead that you do with a physical store (rent, utilities, etc.).

I wish your friend luck. It is a highly competitive market in uncertain financial times.

1/6 scale myself

I know not many do it but really cheap as compared to 1/35

Dragon is fixing to release a 75 MM recoilless gun for a price of $15.00

Well, my personal interest is very narrow. I build Humvee's and Strykers. I will do an occasional M1 Abrams or Bradley. My aircraft interest is 1/35th scale helo's, 1/48th F-16's and F-18's.

The kit brands I buy are mostly Dragon, AFV Club, Tamiya and Hasegawa.

Tamiya, Hasegawa, Trumpeter, Revell. I tend to stay away from Italeri and Hobbycraft because of the funky plastic they use.
Kits, anything modern from Vietnam on. I'm in the market right now for an E-6 and a reasonably priced F-18(Hasagawa) as well as a 104 and 105.


Hermon

As for me, I love 1:35 kits from all nations. Personally, I'd love to see a shop stock kits and aftermarket parts that allow to you build accurately to a time period. For example, a one stop shop for all your OIF needs, including figures in ACU, Abrams with TUSK I and II Legend Humvee things and such.

Also, maybe some hard things to get like Miniarm things. If I could get that for the low I would gladly wait for that.

Also, I would LOVE to see helos in 1:35 because I don;t really find much.

As far as my aircraft fix, I'd buy anything from 1:48 to 1:35. Love them all.

I am looking for that shop that gives me my modern fix and hopefully this comes through!

Oh one last thing...those components that are hard to find such as modelpoint barrels, voyager antennas and things of that sort.

This sounds like a golden idea for my likes

As for me, I love 1:35 kits from all nations. Personally, I'd love to see a shop stock kits and aftermarket parts that allow to you build accurately to a time period. For example, a one stop shop for all your OIF needs, including figures in ACU, Abrams with TUSK I and II Legend Humvee things and such.

Also, maybe some hard things to get like Miniarm things. If I could get that for the low I would gladly wait for that.

Also, I would LOVE to see helos in 1:35 because I don;t really find much.

As far as my aircraft fix, I'd buy anything from 1:48 to 1:35. Love them all.

I am looking for that shop that gives me my modern fix and hopefully this comes through!

Oh one last thing...those components that are hard to find such as modelpoint barrels, voyager antennas and things of that sort.

This sounds like a golden idea for my likes :):):)

Hi Joe,
As for the kits that I am building question. I just got back into the hobbie a few months ago and have been building strictly 1/35 scale WWII Armor and soft skins, mostly from Tamiya. Sprinkle in a few Mini-Art Dios and some Dragon Figures. Haven't done any aftermarket accessorize, don't feel the need for them. As far as the website it should be search-able with sub searches to narrow down what you are looking for. good luck with the business.

I buy almost exclusively on-line these days. I don't mind waiting for items, as my stash is probably larger than some store inventories. I like on-line outlets that give a break on shipping, depending on the amount purchased ( I almost always buy more than I really wanted to, to get up to the savings level, so it's a win-win for me and for the seller, I think). Also, I don't buy things at MSRP. There are just too many places offering discount pricing. However, my interest is strictly WWII. I do occassionaly buy something from another era (WWI aircraft, maybe a modern jet - no armor or ships though) but it's really not my thing.

What I like to see, and by whom:

Planes (1/72 ; 1/48) : Tamiya, Hasegawa, Revell, Eduard

Armor: (1/35): DML ; AFV ; Tamiya

Ships (1/350 ; 1/700): Aoshima, Hasegawa, DML, AFV

Figures (1/35): Masterbox, DML, Miniart.

I buy paint and tools online, and use ModelMaster enamels.

Customer Service is a must. I've stopped using some on-line retailers because they lack it. SprueBrothers has spoiled me, and I measure good service by their standards.

I wish you good luck in your endeavor. Retailing is a tough racket these days, but if you can keep your customers happy, there's always room for more on-line model shops.

Cheers,
Mike

Thanks to Joe for posting this question. He's been immeasurably helpful in during my start-up phase.

I'm happy to see that most of the points posted here have either been addressed or at least considered; makes me feel like I'm on-track.

As Joe has stated, I have quite a bit of retail experience (automotive supply) and a TONS of service experience. Furthermore, I know what I like to see on a site and how I like to shop. With that in mind here's what I'm shooting for. As you can see, it's a very "Keep it Simple" strategy:

-ease of naviation
-visually pleasing and graphically useful. (trying to balance this with load-times is a challenge
-great pricing
-low shipping rates
-transparent shipping with very easy to understand terms.

As far as what's available on the site, that will be an ever-growing selection as I have to be careful with my start-up budget and continue to 'roll" sale into growing that inventory. SO, when you see "New stuff coming in every week," I mean it

Anyway, I'm hoping to have everything live in a week or so (tech issues are the only hold-up and this point.) But let me ask this quick question: I'd like to have a little give away item for the first few hundred orders. I'm trying to find someone to print me up little sanding sticks or something with my logo. Anyone have any ideas? I'd be eternally grateful. And thanks for the well-wishes. I know I'm in for some hard work.

Thanks guys,

Justen
http://www.section8hobbies.com

I would just like to re-iterate how BORING loading inventory into a database is...Been at it all weekend

And there's so much more to do. I really hope you guys like it when we're done!

i'll throw my 2p worth in (from over the pond) i have ordered many kits from US, HK, and the shipping cost a big part of my reasoning to buying a kit, 1 example, was a warrior i got cheap in the US, shipping was approx 9usd 6 week later i had a abrams and the guy charged 12usd shipping, weight differens isnt that much but the postal company's price was the same for both items?????????????? Thats 3usd extra i paid for no reason, so a good reasonable shipping cost is a must obviously without selling yourself short.... My personal prefrence would be Modern 1/35 AFV's

folks:

After reading back over this thread...

It would seem that there is a clear truth and piece of salient advice being offered:

Being a "good dealer" - clear policies, fair shipping prices, GOOD SERVICE- trumps almost all else!

Some have lists of desired brands and a few of specific items...

Funny thought occurs! Once I HAVE my specific item.... I'm no longer in THAT market! A "good inventory" of brand and general range (i.e., diversity of WWII armor kits, AM, for me), on the other hand, will bring and keep me in! And getting the NEW items in counts to us buy-a-holics!

I'm a recent returnee to the hobby after about 35 years. Over 18 months, I have bought perhaps 3k worth of kits, tools, supplies, AM, and a largish library, on-line. Plus a fair postage tab. I buy eBay, from site ads, and from e-shops. (I think I'm more a buyer than a builder!)

I choose my vendors based on their SERVICE - Almost everything being sold has multiple sources. The BUYING EXPERIENCE matters LOTS, to me.

And... No store can stock everything for everyone.

IF I was going to offer any advice to a prospective merchant in this hobby, I would start with emphasizing SERVICE - be a GOOD DEALER! Ship promptly and fairly whatever you sell, be clear and honest as to what is IN STOCK and WHEN you'll ship it out, charge fair prices without tricks and gimmicks, charge fair postage (and if you can give a guy a shipping break for multiple items, DO IT!). Always be willing to promptly and CHEERFULLY fix and address buyer's questions and problems.

YOU do THESE THINGS, I'll be there! And I'll come back. Don't, and...

What's neat to me is a dealer who will go look up and line me up with that special, esoteric item I AM looking for if he doesn't carry it. Willingness to help meet my special order needs (OK, wants) will earn my business.

And I won't expect this special item and service for the cut-rate price, either. Folks in this hobby are pretty savvy and they are willing to pay for what they really want.

Just my OPINION, of course, and my free (but kindly! ) advice! I expect I'll spend as much as 2K on the hobby in the next 12 months... the above SERVICE focus will get most of it!

Hi Joe,
The only wisdom I would offer is think very carefully about the brand or name of your store. Names should convey positive impressions and not inadvertently negative ones. A perfect example I remember for this is a video store a friend of mine once bought. The prior owners had named it "Video Stop". And even made a logo where the "Stop" portion of the sign was surrounded by an octagon-shaped sign border. Now I ask you.. do people like stop signs?

We changed the name and the store did much better.

Jim

Panzerbob, Thanks for such an insightful reply. Most of what you mentioned is how I plan on operating. Service WILL be where we stake a claim in the market. Initially, I'm not going to have the depth or berth of inventory simply because I don't have $750,000 of investment capital

What I do have is time, patience and enthusiasm in building a customer base that we can consistently make happy.

Along those lines, yes, I will take special orders. I will have better shipping rates (even at a slight loss) and we will ship in 18 hours. My little Cobalt is going to be putting the miles on Furthermore, we're only going to post product that's in-stock. I personally HATE back-orders and the surprise no-show. That gets old really quick.

As far as the name, Jim; do you think "Section 8" carriers a negative cannotation? I was aiming for a comical tone, especially considering the logo. Please let me know your thoughts and thanks for the honest input.

NICE front-piece, there, Justen!

Sounds to me like you have your ducks lining up. Good Luck in the biz and I'll be lookin'!

Let me roll my two cents in on this topic. First the market is seeing a lot of start ups, many have no idea of what they are doing and the costs involved in being in business. Not to mention the legalities of starting a legitimate operation.

Many of those who start and fail never capitalize their businesses properly nor set themselves up in a manner to protect their personal holdings from their business. Too many find that they can not manage cashflow and find themselves in deeper than they had realized until it was too late.

Nothing does your otherwise great credit score detriment than a collection agency knocking on your door because you didn't pay your vendor!

Even today some of the larger well established retailers both online and brick n mortar are facing difficulties. Some have been forced to seek and take legal routes to ensure they remain viable. But again that is something that takes money, planning and a strong customer base after the dust settles.

We always seem to see a spurt in wannabe businesses make their appearance during tough economic times, mostly because someone is un or under employed and is looking to turn a hobby into a business. What it turns out to be is a J O B and not a profitable one at that!

Right now the market is shaking out the dinosaurs and those new species that are trying to survive in a hostile climate. Starting a new venture now is risky.

If you're not prepare to do it better than everyone else, don't waste your time starting up. The Hobby Manufacturing Association has some very good information about starting a hobby retail business...worth the read if you're considering it.

If you decide to go forth and attempt to profit, good luck. Many of the distributors who are also feeling the economic pinch are less likely to approve you as a viable business start up. Minimum order quantities and associated credit approval is tougher these days than before. You can thank all those wannabees before who in part created this situation.

Some guy working out of his shed, garage or basement who just wants to be an order broker, not a stocking dealer will find it increasingly difficult these days. Even those well established ones are facing tougher competition in product pricing, shipping fees and order fulfillment because their sources for the goods don't either have the items in stock or are slow to fill.

I can only suggest you do your market research...that doesn't mean just talking to a few guys on the forum as they are not likely to keep you financially afloat. You need to read the trade magazines...Model Retailer and Hobby Retailer as well as Internet Retailer to learn as much as you can about what's going on in the whole marketing world, not just these forums.

As part of our business, we consult with many start up businesses...for those prepared, properly capitalize and having a business plan...can make it...possibly. You have to have some business sense and savvy too!

Hi Justen,
Well it's a great logo so that's a good start. For me the term "Section 8" usually makes me think of Klinger on M*A*S*H, so yes it does carry a bit of the humorous tone. However I didn't serve in the military and there are a lot of modelers who have, so their impression of that term may be more important. Do people still get section 8's these days or is it called something new?

Keep in mind too that the underlying (subliminal?) message might be "Section 8 Hobbies" = "crazy modelers who should get discharged from the hobby".

Cheers,
Jim