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Done with it
staff_Jim
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Posted: Sunday, March 21, 2010 - 01:25 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Luckily there are friendlier forums out there:)



There are always friendlier forums out there. Especially ones were everyone agree about everything and all get along like a happy cult. I am thankful that people can have some freedom to express their opinions here without crossing the line into trolldom. If anyone here can show me where Steven Riley or Jim Rae for that matter have done that I will certainly take action. The problem is most of the time it's more ego bruising than actual abuse. I (and the other forum moderators) are not 'all-knowing' nor do we analyze every post made on this site to the Nth degree. Show me the transgressions... then we will see what is what.

FYI - We stopped being the 'friendliest' forum back in 2006. Or so it was declared elsewhere.

Cheers,
Jim
staff_Jim
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Posted: Sunday, March 21, 2010 - 01:40 PM UTC
Also (yes... this is not a situation I am happy about) I did a check for my own personal curiosity, and, guess how many people are so bothered or insulted by Herbert's posts that they have opted to put him on hidden (ignored) status? ZERO, NONE, NADA!

So Steve (and others) maybe you should also stop the insults and either admit you get something from reading his posts or PUT HIM ON HIDE USER STATUS and save us all a lot of grief! I think I speak for a LOT of people on this site and others that are really tired of these types of posts. It's not a one way street.

Jim
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Posted: Sunday, March 21, 2010 - 03:00 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Luckily there are friendlier forums out there:)



As long as you don't express an actual opinion that happens to disagree with that of the 'boss'...

Sorry, but I'm totally with Mr Ackerman on this one.

The recent goings on in the world of scale modelling have sucked all the joy out of it for me - again - and just when I was about to get back to building after a year of personal difficulties.

It's just building plastic tanks guys.

acav
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Posted: Sunday, March 21, 2010 - 05:00 PM UTC

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Well, I'm done with armorama.

I've had it with the insults.

I ask that all my reviews and posts be deleted, since I do not wish that anything of my shared knowledge will be retained here.

Thanks to Steven Riley, for those concerned, I have lost all joy in this site.

Well, just enjoy your mindless building.

I'm sick of you.

Peace be with you
Kuno-Von-Dodenburg
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Posted: Sunday, March 21, 2010 - 09:14 PM UTC

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... and, guess how many people are so bothered or insulted by Herbert's posts that they have opted to put him on hidden (ignored) status? ZERO, NONE, NADA!
Jim



With the greatest respect, Jim, I don't think that's necessarily the best yardstick. There are actually good reasons NOT to put people on "hide user" status on forums, no matter how objectionable you may find them.

In any case, as you rightly say it cuts both ways and Herbert is for his part likewise quite free to put myself or Jim R anyone else on "hide user" if he so wishes.

- Steve
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Posted: Sunday, March 21, 2010 - 09:45 PM UTC

Quoted Text

That said, if you don't mind my saying, and unless I'm missing something, I think what I'm seeing here with the Dalek thread is referred to colloquially in places such as New Jersey (as one example) as "breaking balls."

Honestly, I wish I had as much knowledge for someone to poke some good-natured fun at me.



Thank you. When I responded about the Axis Daleks, there was NO malice intended. I could easily have responded with a similar comment about AlanL over HIS enthusiasm for all things Allied. Yeah, a bit of gentle 'ball-breaking'. All it requires is a similar response - a reaction like this is well OTT.

There have been (too) MANY times when Herbert's responses in threads have obviously belittled or even insulted people, my temptation was to delete his responses. I didn't because at the end of the day, there WAS useful information within them.

However, saying this, all this storm in a teacup stuff is just TOO well-timed for me to consider it coincidental.
Kelley
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Posted: Sunday, March 21, 2010 - 11:11 PM UTC
Herbert while your knowledge was very helpful at times, I have to say I'm falling in line with Mike D., Jim C. & Steve here. Others will step in to fill the space, they always do.

You brought this on yourself with your "holier than thou" diatribes on accuracy and the hobby. I didn't think Steve's posts to you (one person) were any worse than your's pointed at many different people. It's more a case of someone who can dish it out but not take it.

Mike
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Posted: Monday, March 22, 2010 - 12:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text



You brought this on yourself with your "holier than thou" diatribes on accuracy and the hobby.



Equally you wont survive very long on any of the other sites with that attitude. One particular site comes to mind, where the editor was told his model was wrong because the lens on some IR gear was painted the wrong color, his response (presumably the kind of response you hate Herbet) was "so what its only a model" . To my knowledge armorama, and ML are about the only modelling sites online where there is a healthy discussion about vehicle history, accuracy of kits etc etc, and forums rammed with reference notes and material. I can guarantee that you wont have much fun anywhere else if its absolute accuracy you care about.
redcap
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Posted: Monday, March 22, 2010 - 01:58 AM UTC
Herbert.

Please come down off the cross.

These "personal attacks" as you call them have been nothing more than an invitation / request (for months now) TO SIMPLY SHOW US YOUR BUILT MODELS TO BACK UP YOUR ALLEGED TECHNICAL KNOWLEDGE. After all, anyone can hide behind the annonymity of a computer screen and for all we know you could simply plagiarise text books on the subject and copy the text DIRECTLY onto this site pasing it off as your own 'knowledge'. At times, your threads are more akin to an engineering forum than a site dedicated to building PLASTIC MODELS. Gross axle weights, gear rations, modifications to internal engine compartments, what vehicles that were never even produced WOULD (?) have looked like and all other manner of obscure technical 'advice' has it's place I suppose....but in building small plastic kits?

By way of ananolgy, your constant hyper criticism or need to comment on just about anyone elses built model or to "chip in" with an lecture (more often than not when not even solicted!) is like me turning up week in and week out at the training ground of a soccer academy and heckling the players (of all skill levels) from the sideline. Then, after a while, each time I pass comment on others, the coach throws me the ball and says; "Come on then, show us what you can do champ? " I don't even pick up the ball but rather after NUMEROUS invites to 'do my stuff', I just storm off in a hissy-fit and say - "Everyone's picking on me!"

If we saw ONE BUILT MODEL - JUST ONE and it reflected even partially the level of your suppossed technical knoweldege, Steve Riley, others and myself who to date don't buy into this "Herbert knows EVERYTHING" mantra that exists in some quarters on this site would be the first to throw up our hands and say - "HERBERT YOU WERE RIGHT AND WE WERE WRONG." What is so unreasonable about refusing to buy into a hype where there is NO SUBSTANCE to justify it other that "words"?

On a final note, if you don't feel us worthy to see your models built on the back of that wealth of knowledge you keep ramming down our throats, approach one of the publishing houses and do a book called, say, "How to build realistic Tiger and Panther Tank Models" and put your name to it.

I'm sure it will be a best seller if even a fraction of the "Don't go Herbert - we NEED you" fraternity on Armorama put their hard earned cash where their mouths are.

THAT would be a true measure of their unquestioning loyalty and support to hang onto each and everything you say. And if the book isn't a best selller, well perhaps 'the faithful' on this thread weren't quite the disciples you thought them to be!

Gary
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Posted: Monday, March 22, 2010 - 02:03 AM UTC
[quote]
Quoted Text

Luckily there are friendlier forums out there:)



Well, contrary to belief we have a VERY good forum here. If you scratch beneath the surface you will find a truly fantastic community of highly knowledgeable and skilled modelers, willing to help each other out and provide some of the most useful knowledge and research, far more than most of the other forums. What you wont find is a load of brown nosing and arse kissing typical of many other forums.
afv_rob
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Posted: Monday, March 22, 2010 - 03:14 AM UTC
dont know what happened above, meant to edit my previous posting but for some reason it created a new posting....?
sauceman
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Posted: Monday, March 22, 2010 - 04:38 AM UTC
Well if history is to repeat itself Herbert will not come back to this thread for a rebuttle. He's good at starting these "oh poor me, you all suck" threads, but once he gets called out he takes his bat and ball and whimpers home.



cheers
pebblemonkey
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Posted: Monday, March 22, 2010 - 05:34 AM UTC
It saddens me, I've already Ignored/ Blocked a few people on here, Negative comments made to others have prevented me having the motivation to show my WIPs and work for "Constructive" Critism.
I wonder if others have been affected by the comments or how they read into comments made about modellers skills?

Matt
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Posted: Monday, March 22, 2010 - 05:39 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Luckily there are friendlier forums out there:)



As long as you don't express an actual opinion that happens to disagree with that of the 'boss'...

Sorry, but I'm totally with Mr Ackerman on this one.

The recent goings on in the world of scale modelling have sucked all the joy out of it for me - again - and just when I was about to get back to building after a year of personal difficulties.

It's just building plastic tanks guys.

acav


I love this last line! I would have to guess that more than 90% of people consider this hobby as working with toys. I don't care who said what about whatever since it doesn't bother me in the least. If the guy thinks he was an expert when did he serve in the German Army during WWII? If he just gets his info from books or pictures then he is missing quite a bit. I would be almost positive in saying that some things were missed except by the one's who were there. If the guy wants to leave, Leave! If he don't big deal! I think we should let it go and this will die on its own. Oh BTW has anybody ever seen M1 sponson boxes mounted on an M88A1? I had two like that in Korea but sorry no picture of it.
bill_c
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Posted: Monday, March 22, 2010 - 07:10 AM UTC
While we all play with toys here, I thought we were grown-ups.

Being grown-up means accepting a certain amount of disrespectful attitude from people who don't think of us as immortals or agree with us. Of course, that's a very American attitude (we're frequently slammed for having ATT-IT-TOOOOOD); we allow all kinds of irreverence here right up to making fun of religion. In Europe, its history of bloodshed, coupled with strong libel laws, mean the nastiness is hidden below the surface instead of being out in the open.

Herbert, I think you bring a good deal of this on yourself, but you are a great source of information and your participation elevates the dialogue here on topics where you've done your homework. If that means accepting your quirks and foibles and prickly personality, I'm OK with that. But if you expect people to kow-tow and treat you with kid gloves, then the Internet is going to drive you nuts. It don't work that way.
sauceman
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Posted: Monday, March 22, 2010 - 08:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text

It saddens me, I've already Ignored/ Blocked a few people on here, Negative comments made to others have prevented me having the motivation to show my WIPs and work for "Constructive" Critism.
I wonder if others have been affected by the comments or how they read into comments made about modellers skills?

Matt



I don't think you should be wary of posting your builds. I haven't seen to many total ball busting critiques of anyones work. If you set the parameters down as in "this is my first or second, or whatever, build" or "I tried this technique, what do you think?" statements like that.

You also have to be ready FOR critiques. Don't take them personally, they are meant to help you improve. I don't think there are people on here that will just bash your build.


cheers

404NotFound
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Posted: Monday, March 22, 2010 - 11:37 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

That said, if you don't mind my saying, and unless I'm missing something, I think what I'm seeing here with the Dalek thread is referred to colloquially in places such as New Jersey (as one example) as "breaking balls."

Honestly, I wish I had as much knowledge for someone to poke some good-natured fun at me.



Thank you. When I responded about the Axis Daleks, there was NO malice intended. I could easily have responded with a similar comment about AlanL over HIS enthusiasm for all things Allied. Yeah, a bit of gentle 'ball-breaking'. All it requires is a similar response - a reaction like this is well OTT.

There have been (too) MANY times when Herbert's responses in threads have obviously belittled or even insulted people, my temptation was to delete his responses. I didn't because at the end of the day, there WAS useful information within them.

However, saying this, all this storm in a teacup stuff is just TOO well-timed for me to consider it coincidental.



Honestly, I saw the joke for what it was right away. Again, I wish I knew enough to have some fun poked at me in that matter. I would've laughed right away had it been me, maybe even added some "expert detail correction" commentary, i.e, "no red primer schemes for Daleks.".

That said, I've also considered that in our discourse here, we are dealing with someone whose first language is not English, so perhaps it's easy for someone such as that to misunderstand one's intentions as well as for others to misinterpret someone's posts as rude or brusque, when perhaps nothing of the sort is intended.

I also can think of parallels with my job in which some managers send out work emails that could politely and kindly be termed "to the point." Some might be tempted to think they're barking out orders, even disrespectfully so. Fortunately, I know these people and understand that they're busy and also that it's just their stark writing styles, nothing more.

I've had a lot of very nice PM exchanges with Herbert, never had any sense of any imperious tone or anything else negative.

Me, I'd just like to see folks get along here, but the battle lines have been drawn, unfortunately.

I'm just here to learn.
Kuno-Von-Dodenburg
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Posted: Monday, March 22, 2010 - 12:35 PM UTC

Quoted Text

That said, I've also considered that in our discourse here, we are dealing with someone whose first language is not English, so perhaps it's easy for someone such as that to misunderstand one's intentions as well as for others to misinterpret someone's posts as rude or brusque, when perhaps nothing of the sort is intended.



I wasn't going to comment any further on this, but I will just respond to that point of yours, George.

Giving Herbert credit where it's due, I have to say that his written English is actually far better than that of many native English speakers that I've come across, so I really don't think that language nuances are the problem here.

It's a personality / superiority thing, pure and simple. Besides, it's hard to misunderstand comments like the one in his initial post in this thread "Well just enjoy your mindless building". There have been many similar examples, but unfortunately he's deleted all his recent posts in a fit of pique, and in any case I don't have the time or the inclination to go trawling back through his entire posting history digging out examples simply to prove a point.

Suffice to say that quite a few people have commented on it at various times - but the difference in my case is that on several occasions I've challenged him firmly to back up (in the shape of his finished builds) his much-proferred (whether asked for or not) "experten" knowledge, all his constant banging on about "advanced modelling" and, most of all, his frequent criticising of other posters for not being "serious modellers" because they don't share his obsession for accuracy in the Nth degree.

And that's what he didn't like, and what made him chuck his toys out of the pram and stomp off the forum, making silly accusations of bullying and persecution as he slammed the door behind him.

You say you've had good experiences with him via PM and that's fair enough. Maybe he's fine one-on-one. And I'm sure he loves his mum as well. But some folks need a gallery to play to and like to show off in public. Its called ego. And when they're challenged, and people start calling BS on it all, it's tantrum time.

- Steve
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Posted: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 - 01:54 AM UTC
Jeez, it's just a hobby....
RKinsella
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Posted: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 - 03:42 AM UTC
..you could'nt write this thread, Its like a bad train crash, its tragic but you just have to watch!

..its easy to say that obviously when you have nothing to do with the argument. But at the same time its a little concerning, everyone is trying to justify they're comments and pride appears to be at stake here, every update seems to be fueling the fire.

I have to agree with Sean, its only a hobby, I've enough Bull$h1t at work and the last thing a modeller should want is bring that kinda crap into his spare time too..

Guys, calm down, your gonna meet different personalities blogging, good and bad, thats the nature of the beast. Toys have been thrown from prams and the milk has been spilt yada yada, readers can make up they're own minds about what happened, all thats left now are the personalities and opinions clashing. People are joining in on both sides and the exercise seems pointless..

..you can all tell me where to go, who am I to give advice and I'm probably no better for posting here too but try not feed the trolls (like me ), end this before it gets too crazy and folk start pointing fingers at armorama instead of individuals, get back to what you all do best guys, thats plastic!

Grumpyoldman
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Posted: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 - 09:13 AM UTC
Since I can see that this is going to go nowhere, I'm locking this thread.
So it just fades away.
I agree with a lot of people, it's only a hobby, and far too much of my modeling time has been wasted monitoring certain threads.