Just bought a book entitled Arrogant Armies by James M. Perry. It's about military blunders. In the Preface Mr. Perry describes his background as a long-time political reporter with a lifelong interest in military history.

While covering one of the presidential campaigns he got into a discussion about military history with one of the younger reporters.

In the course of the conversation the young man asked Mr Perry if the US Marines fought in World War 2.!!

A few years ago a friend of my youngest son (about 20 years old at the time) asked me what an Iwo Jima was!!?

Am I alone in thinking that somewhere there is something seriously wrong?

Not at all. A couple years ago,a frined of mine who at the time was a reporter for the major Maine newspaper was discussin, IIRC, Joshua Chamberlain, patron hero-saint of Maine, and the 20th Maine during the Civil War withhis supervisor, a younger woman. She asked on which side Maine faought during the ACW.

I think there are several parts to this.

First, as time goes on, specific battles and unit engagement become more difficult to cover in history because, quite literally, there is more to cover in the same time than there was 40-50 years ago when we were in school.

Second, history is not one of the subjects emphasized in the No Child Left Behind type of standardized testing. The systemm forces teaches to teach to these tests and the schoo systems are must enofrce this to ensure funding.

Third, with kids these days, it's their grandparents and great-grand parents, even great-great-grand parents who were involved in WWII. It is, quite literally, ancient history to them. The people we fought are no longer enemies, in fact, some are staunch allies and trading partners.

I have to agree unfortunately in the sence that it was ancient history to them...might as well have been when columbus discovered america or the cave man discovering the wheel. Ask the same kid about his knowledge of "black and white TV" or life without cell phones, computers or texting and see what ya get for a responce. "WE" remember it because we were there...but he won't.....it's like telling my kids about my much younger days in shcool and about Nuns with rulers...you get a, "huh?"

Discouraging isn't it?

I'm reminded of a quote from George Santayana:

"Those who do not remember history are condemed to repeat it."

The 20th Century is the most violent century of all time, World War 2 was both the greatest event in history and the most gallant endeavor of man. To not teach about it, or the Civil War, is criminal.

I can understand the US Government not teaching about the Revolution. It was caused by excess taxation. The idea that taxation can be a subject of armed revolt is not something they want bandied about.

While trying to avoid being political it would appear that the powers that be in the UK are ashamed of the fact that our side won. WW1 and WW2 must be two of the biggest events history wise and yet we must not mention the war. My Grandfather fought in WW2 and he never had a bad thing to say about the Germans as he felt the Germans he encountered were the same as he "just on the wrong side" as he put it. He did dislike the Italians though, not the troops but the kids because he nearly got killed by a train pulling off as he chased them out from under the train.

History covers a wider area than just wars. Many have interests in engineering/industry, art, music, religion, nature, fashion, etc, etc. There are those who prefer to look forward as well. One could say that history is in the making everyday.
Can we expect everybody to have the same interests as ourselves? Maybe its not all bad, sometimes I think that some of these autrocities are better forgotten.

What I seem to think about this ,is that many young people are very buisy living their lives in the now. They do not seem to realize that the now is the result of past history no matter whether it was good or bad events. When I was a kid the now included an appreciation for history and country. You were an American living in America. Now , the young people are for the most part just people who happen to live in America . They enjoy all the good things that hard work and sacrifice have brought and they have little to offer for the future of their own generation and for the generations to come. I have talked to people that have no Idea what countries were on the axis side or who were on the allied side. It is truely sad because with this sorry state of ignorance our world will eventually completely forget the past and become vulnerable to the mistakes that were made there. Should such things as the halocaust and other genocides be forgotten due to ignorance , then you can rest assured that such things will continue unchecked. Yes , some of us are forgetting and yes, there is something wrong............... As I respect Frank G's opinion , I disagree and say that atrocities such as the halocaust , 911, and the massive murders in Cambodia and Bosnia should never be swept under the rug just so we can forget and feel warm fuzzies about it. ..........These things should never be swept under the rug as unimportant no matter how many years after the event.............Al

I used to round up the truants for the local school district. I then went through their text books with them to help them make up for the classes they had missed. The high school history book had three pages covering the great depression and WWII. Most of that focused on Hiroshima and the political incorrectness of winning the war. There were over 20 pages of pop culture, Madonna and Michael Jackson. You can't learn what you were never taught.

If you have knowledge, you are obligated to share it. World history is a series of repeated events because people won't learn, or don't want to know.

With a child in high school and one in middle school I am appalled at the utter crap which is shoveled out as history. My son had to teach his HS ‘History’ teacher about WWII since this recent college graduate was unsure which side Italy fought on. More people can recognize Kate Gosslin than can identify Golda Mier. It is so sad to see the dumbing down of our kids by a school system which is hell bent on test scores and has little concern over real learning.

How true Frank Amato. The ignorance is not just about wars it runs on and on about so many things. From how people spend their time and money, to how they treat other people with disrespect and including to disrespect themselves in the guise of being cool. In my day there was a fear that because of the drug culture , that we would be a lost generation. The difference then was that lots of the potheads were very educated people with some bad habbits in the name of cool.They eventually gave up the pot but not their education or common sense. They weren't a bunch of ignorant people like you see today. No person knows it all but everyone should at least know some simple basics about the world that we live in or in the simple financial facts that you can not write checks for more money than you have in the account. Who has time to list all that is wrong ? You have touched on one of those things and that is test scores are more important than teaching the basics. Again I say we have forgotten and something is definately wrong. The future is going to be one hell of a ride!!!!!! ...........Al

I've been trying to find some thread of hope in this discussion. I finally realized that the hope is right there in front of me: The thread itself!

We probably all have our particular specialties; WW2, ACW, Napoleonic War, etc., etc. but how many of us actually learned and studied these things in school in other than general terms? Or, did your knowledge come from your own study?

I'm not suggesting that high school students learn what roles were played by General John Buford, or Reynolds, or Chamberlain at Gettsburg, that comes from developing the interest displayed here - on this board. I do think, however, that a basic knowledge of the Civil War, or the Revolution, or WW 2, be given as a framework.

For example: I have an interest in infectious diseases. This was sparked when I read(somewhere) that WW 2 was the first war fought where fewer people died from disease than from enemy action. On a visit to the doctor, I mentioned this, and he suggested a book called "The Path Between the Seas" by Richard Hough, (I think). It describes the French attempt to build the canal. They didn't count on Yellow Fever.

In short(because I tend to ramble) the powder was there, it just needed a spark to set off. That leads to the problem we're discussing. Nobody's touching the spark in kids.

This board, or several like it, will be around long after we're gone because the spark will ignite in people forever. Unfortunately, I feel that spark will be far smaller than it could be.

Now, if only somebody could show me how to store all the books I've collected....

Just reading these post is scarry. All have the point of forget and repeat. Unfortunitly, correct. As mankind progresses towards what end, we have repeated these horrors without equel. Just proves the fact that given the oppertunity, man will show just how dumb he can be. When I looked in my daughters history book four years ago I was totaly amazed that the V.N. war and Korean war were about a paragraph each. I wondered what the hell they were supposed to learn from that. I was watching one of those game shows a few years ago and none of the contestants could tell where V.Nam even was. Another question, what is the capitol of Hungary , guess what; no one knew. Is it a wonder that so much is wrong in our world when our kids don't even know where places are on our own planet!!! We are deffenitly up the creek as this so called school system trains and teachs our kids. Through my interest in history and modeling, my daughter has a better education on the world and what goes on than most kids. No, she is not a rocket scientist, but knows what our history is about. If the schools can't or wont teach them the facts of life within humanity, then we must make sure to teach them. I for one do not wish to repeat any of those horrors I have studied and I'm sure if kids now adays knew, they would not either. I have seen the insanity of what humans can do to each other, forget and repeat? I have met people that do not belive that the holocost even happened. Most of my relitives in Hungary and Check. went to the camps and were never heard from again, and it is denied as a myth. A sad time when that happens. And even sadder when we let it.

I found a link to an article that everybody should read:

http://www.forbes.com/2008/08/13/unprepared-college-freshman-oped-college08-cx_eh_0813hirsch.html

It kinda sums it all up.

im not sure i Agree.
Eduacation costs,
taxes, funding, all that junk.
basically, Goverments want to supply thr kids with the essentias. Reading, Writing, Mild understanding of the sciences, And Mathematics. Unless a school is given a lot more time, funding, and Resources, teaching kids about this wont happen, History in my old school, covered, Evacuation and the blitz., small section on the cold war. Medicine through time, and a small segment on local history, oh and ww1. i feel there is enough there to spark any interest, from economics, to military history, to architectural history and polotics,
there is simply not enough time to educate everyone throughly about history.
Damn i wouldnt know the awnsers to half the examples put up here.

[quote then we must make sure to teach them. I for one do not wish to repeat any of those horrors I have studied and I'm sure if kids now adays knew, they would not either. .[/quote]
I'm not sure knowing about the atrocities/failures really prevents them from happening again. I would guess the architects of the holocaust knew full well their histories. I can't imagine no one in the leadership in Germany in the early 40's knew of Napoloeon's disaster in the Russian winter. The British knew of Alexander's failures in Afghanistan even if the Russians did not know of the British folly and certainly America had not forgotten our friends of necessity, the Mujahedeen fighting off the Russians when we went in there. The drug culture for some reason lionizes Al Pacino's Scarface character even though he looses everything in the end. Bank robbers continue to rob banks even though most of them get caught. Banks whose behavior nearly destroyed the economy over the last few years were resecued and went right back to the same old behavior.

Strange that they find the money and time to teach religion at school except for Christianity of course.

OK, so forget about history and knowledge of the world we live in. All is well ,so long as we memorize the words to the latest rap songs and how to get a great score on some video game. Yea buddy that will surely have to be more important. Unfortunately some people in our time are part of the don't know don't care generation. You know.........Morons.

It's beneficial to the ruling classes to have the masses as ignorant as possible.

Knowledge is power

You must be talking about Democrats...........

This is basically turned into a knock the younger generation thread - most modelers are a bit older than my tender fifteen years. This pretty much happens to every generation. 'talkin' bout my geeen-eration!' It seems as if a few people are stereotyping us as ignorant people. There are ignorant people in every generation. It seems we are overemphasizing the ones in my generation to me. At my school, there are dub@$$es, and there are plenty of intelligent people who do care. Lets not forget about those ones.

My 2 cents.
SCOTT

It is not the young that are the problem it is the people who decide what they are going to teach them that are.

Sorry folks...I did not mean to offend anyone. Ignorance and stupid are really two different things. One can be smart but ignorant of the facts. It is easy for an old geezer like me to notice the inexperience of our younger folks. Times have changed though and it is very sad that not just younger folks but even some older ones do not know simple basics of the world that we live in. I am in no way all knowing but I do take an interest in our world far beyond watching the Family Guy and working on models. I would just really like to see more young people take an interest in the world beyond their neighborhood. Our country is depending on you to do that. Preserve the future by educating yourself today. Just because the schools do not teach properly is no excuse for not reading up and learning a variety of subjects. In the case of our sorry school systems , self motivation will be the key. Stir up a passion for history , geography, politics, etc., as if it were the same passion that you have for models.

I think one of the key reasons for the disconnect with the past is that younger people are focused internally. I am a fifty six year old fart, but when I was a kid we were focused outside ourselves. When we weren't in school we were outside with our friends playing games and interacting with other people and the world at large. Our kids go home and text and phone their friends and rarely extend their interests beyond their immediate peer group. We have protected them so well we have limited them and stopped their growth.

The weird thing is that if you go to a book shop there are loads of history books on offer. Someone reads them.
True lots of young people are incredibly ignorant about history, but that's down to the way it's taught. For example the GCSE History syllabus includes American slavery and Vietnam. What it doesn't include is several millenia of British history. Ask any UK man (or woman) in the street to name an English king and they'll say Henry VIII, and the only thing about him they remember is that he had 6 wives (of which they may be able to name maybe two). Henry VIII is probably one of the worst monarchs we ever had. He squandered all the money his dad Henry VII had laboriously built up during his reign, and managed to fall out with virtually everyone including the Pope.
If our politicians had any knowledge of history at all our troops wouldn't be anywhere near Afghanistan. We did our penance there in the 19th century - ever heard of the Retreat from Kabul (1842)? It suits the current government and previous ones to try and keep the electorate in ignorance of our history, that way people don't realise the hard fought for rights they are losing as the government sells out to Europe. Think I'm paranoid?
This ignorance isn't limited to the UK. German history books end at 1933 and start again after WW2. I remember being in a restaurant in London many years ago, when an American family came in. They were pretty loud and it was impossible not to overhear the conversation. The wife proclaimed loudly that Buffalo Bill, Billy the Kid & Wild Bill Hickok were the same person! (NB I'm not trying to diss Americans here, it;s just an example.)
I think you'll find most people's knowledge of history is mainly based on Hollywoods version, and we all know how accurate that is!

It's not the younger generation. Ignorance has historically been generational. People learn from what they observe, either at home or in the environment around them. Some foolish individuals choose to reject knowledge because it is easier to drift along and let others take care of things. Some powerful few have found that the easiest way to maintain power is to keep people entertained. Rome absorbed all the knowledge of the world it conquered, and then traded it for the grain dole and the games. Freedom today means having no responsibility or accountability. It used to mean the absence of oppression. It was gained by independence, which meant being able to provide for ones self. That was gained by knowledge. Liberty meant the ability to act as an individual, to choose your own course. It was based on self control (basic government) which was based on knowledge of and respect for laws. All of this is based on the individual. If the individual won't participate, or the system denies the individual, knowledge is lost, and with it freedom, independence, liberty and law. It is our responsibility to change this as long as we have power to act.