Hi all,
I am just going to rant on this one. This Friday I picked up DML's Tiger I Late with zimmerit (kit #6383) and was stunned by the amount of stuff (both plastic and photo-etched) they have put in the box. I also have seen at the hobby store, an opened box of DML's 6406 and again the amount of plastic and photo-etched parts they've put in is astounding. Same goes for kit #6252 and many , many others. When is Tamiya going to follow suit? Why can't they have kits with zimmerit, metal barrels, photo-etched parts (and not only a couple of lame engine grilles). Take 6252 from DML for instance. While I do not have this kit, from the review I have seen here on the site I've read that it does come with metal towing shackles (is this the right word for it?). Dragon is putting now in their kits, two sets of tools, with or without holding brackets (again not sure if this is the proper term) and much more. They do offer a choice with their kits. Tamiya doesn't have anything like that. They have come with two kits lately that do have metal barrels, but that's it. Come on Tamiya, give us something better. Rant over.

I guess you didn't get the memo on the Matilda III Tamiya's retooled.

Let your wallet do the talking ... don´t like it ... buy from somebody else.
Problem is .... Tamiya sells. Theres a large section of model builders that are not represented online, and they appear to like Tamiya quality ... with less parts and easier builds.

To Brian: I did get it. But I believe they should do more than that. Will see what time brings us.
To Frank: My problem is that I still like their kits. I did not suggest that Tamiya's quality is low. It is very good and they actually are my favourite manufacturer - that's why I keep buying kits from them. And the way I see it, it will stay like that. But seeing DML's new stuff makes me wonder why can't Tamiya do the same thing. They certainly have the power and resources to do it. It was just a question, did not wish to offend anybody. I apologize if my post got through in an offensive way.

Oh dear, one of my fave subjects about one of my least fave companies.

For 'bang for the buck' DML is the market leader. For simplicity & for clear instructions, it's Tamiya. However, since many of Tamiya's kits are now getting to the Zimmer-frame stage and have only the vaguest acquaintance with accuracy, DML remain the only serious option. Nor is price a factor either. Some of Tamiya's more 'venerable' product lines are as (or more) expensive than DML's. So, IMO; it seems dumb to buy a 15-year old design at a higher price than a modern one.

Tamiya rarely 'update'. They usually stick a few bits of PE and perhaps a replacemnt barrel. When they Re-Tool they tend to do it well. Unfortunately, these re-tools are pretty rare...

Tamiya is probably around 90% nostalgia (with a few good models) there's better out there. Unfortunately there are subjects which are unique to Tamiya, those of which are, in general, pretty good... Many of those which are done by other companies (the M4s, the PzIVs Tigers etc.) are streets better than Tamiya's...

Ahhhh the oft repeated Tamiya rant. This seems to come up every few months. Sebastion, hate to say it, but basicly you're out of luck. Tamiya dances to their own tune, ie, they do what they want when they want. It's highly doubtful any rant by you or anyone else is going to make them change that attitude, heck the chance that they will even read it is slim to none.

There are a number of reasons for this but in the end like Frank said, if you don't like it, don't buy it.

Mike

Every month, a proud modeler makes a proclaimation that he just used his Hobby Lobby 40% coupon to buy the Tamiya Panther Ausf. A and paid $22 for it. Problem is, it isn't worth $22, maybe $5 as a starter kit.

Every other month, a modeler will ask what's the best brand (or worst brand). We all know the answer isn't as simple as that.

People will continue to buy Tamiya because they have the reputation of being the best. Yes, they were the best of all manufacturers at one time. And yes, when they decide to do a kit properly (like the Char Bis, JS 1, Dragon Wagon, etc.), they do an outstanding job.

They won't really learn because many modelers will continue to toss money at their feet for kits that are 20-30+ years old.

- that's precisely it. It also has to understood that Tamiya makes (made?) its money in R/C. The plastic kit division may have added to the company coffers but it's been a while since it was of any real importance. Times are a changing for Tamiya though. Many mainland Chinese companies are now doing the R/C components at a fraction of Tamiya's prices and even that monopoly doesn't look as solid as a few years ago.

Tamiya don't see the 'Net as of any real value to them. They don't monitor Sites like this - we're simply not as important as the`print mags (naturally enough ) even though our circulation is well beyond any dedicated mag.

A few crumbs from Mr. T's table seems enough (sadly) to keep many content, happy and grateful...

One other thing imagine your 1st kit is say a new Dragon Tiger, how many 1st timers might be put off, Ok the camo on Tamiyas Hetzer is a bit of a tough one But for a 1st timer I bet they will try another and i'm not a betting man

How many first timers would even spend the amount of money either one of those kits goes for? Tamiya has the new 1/48 scale line, it is much more novice friendly than current kits.

Hello,

When I first started modelling about 4 years ago, off and on of course, I didn't really know what brand offered what quality; I just assumed that if it was expensive , then it must have been worth its cost in plastic parts, accuracy, detail, etc? I was in for a surprise. Naturally, I didn't even know plastic models existed that could render subjects to such realism... I was brought up on traditional art mediums such as painting on canvas with acrylics, oils, watercolors etc. I thought models were all scratchbuilt, and model kits were just kid's toys?


I'm an avid sculptor, but after diving into the modelling world, I guess I said to myself: "I could never reproduce a subject such as a vehicle to such standards." But, creating busts, and figures are still within my reach; art is an expression, not an exact science; with vehicles, it seems to be though. Nevertheless, after doing some research and coming to this website for instance, I realized that wow... those models are actually made from model kits!

Anyways, the whole point I'm trying to make, is that, for people starting out in the hobby, or people who build models on rainy days for instance, don't really know the quality of the kit because they don't/ or couldn't bother with doing research behind the manufacturer of the kit; a subject is a subject. I guess then, when I first went to a hobbyshop, I didn't know what manufacturers were good, and from my gut instinct, I judged the manufacturer's product by the box art. To me at least, Tamiya's box art gave me a feeling that this was thee manufacturer; it looked professional. Dragon's boxart on the other hand made me feel that their kits were sub-standard and made in China? I've had bad experiences with knock-off Gundam kits as a child, so I guess I had some bias. Nevertheless, as the old saying goes, never judge a book by its cover? Realistically though, its the first impressions that you get, that will determine what manufacturer you choose before you actually decide to do some research to find out what else is out there?

Oh, also, I couldn't tell at first if the model kits I was buying were new or old; For instance, I didn't know a lot of Tamiya kits were actually re-issued kits.

That's my rant.

Tamiya has been around a looong time and is still on the shelves. Good on them. They're obviously doing something right. If they weren't they wouldn't be in business. Maybe kits are a sideline that only pays for itself or is subsidised (sp??) by the other HUGE businesses that Tamiya operates. The major manufacturers seem to want to complete, let them. T does what it wants when it wants. Take 1:48th for example. People said it would never last but it's growing....slowly. I applaud them and hope they keep going, like Airfix has.

Cheers

Tamiya's plastic scale military line isn't their main business nor a major revenue stream. That honour would belong to the RC divisions. It's been this way for decades. Why spend thousands or millions on retooling, redevelopment and major new product development when: it's not your main line of business; and the product sells as is?

Further to this, DML and Tamiya really are aimed at (IMO) different markets. I wouldn't give a newcomer a DML kit - those instructions and the sheer number of parts would only serve to confuse, frustrate and scare a beginner off. Whereas a Tamiya kit is perfect for a beginner - easy to follow, easy fit, minimal parts. But it falls short for most seasoned modellers, unless one is looking for an easy, stress-free OOB weekend build.

Anyone who's built a Tamiya RC kit would know that the same applies to that range. And that's where they have the huge advantage over the competition. I used to build RC cars for customers when working in a LHS which specialised in RC (scale models were a by-line). A Tamiya RC vehicle would literally go together in a few hours, whereas many of the newer, cheaper, and "better" brands were nothing a pain in the rear.



Rudi

Unless there is a significant paradigm shift within Tamiya, I don't see them ever competing with the likes of Dragon/DML. The detail and value just isn't there.

Having said that, a significant majority of my stash is Tamiya. I haven't bought a Tamiya kit in quite some time though. My recent (last 6 months or so) purchases/trades have all been Dragon/DML or AFV Club.

I will always like Tamiya because, as others have said above, what they do decide to do they do in a quality manner. I still enjoy Tamiya kits because I don't get hung up on the missing details that some modelers do.

Hopefully they will change their way of doing business some day.

...not true, I bought the Hippie Hemi and then walked right back in and used the other coupon for the Digger Cuda......

Hi Sebastian. I can see that, and you didn´t offend anybody. Dont worry about that. My answer may have been a little abrupt, because I was peeping in from work, and also because this has (as mentioned by several already) come up quite ofen previously.

That, for me at least is part of the problem. When a company ISN'T competing (or don't feel they have to) that is bad news for any industry. There are two distinct strands - the casual buyer's market and the enthusiast's. The latter, a lot of which is are 'returnees' to the hobby are far more demanding in areas such as accuracy. Even 'traditional' companies like Airfix are seeing that this is a sector worth pursuing - a 1/24th Scale Mosquito or the announcement of their larger scale ships can't be considered any kind of 'casual' part of the sector. The continuing debate over the respective merits of the two Sd.Kfz 7s is significant - these are both at the 'high-end' of the market. Companies such as Bronco, AFV Club, DML etc. are within the 'Enthusiast's' sector. Tamiya isn't and unless it wants to invest, it never actually will be. The Matilda is a welcome release, but, if I was running an AM company, i'd be rubbing my hands in glee at the prospect, Their Char B1 was a good model but suffers from simplified detail in many areas - for an accurate model it DOES need some TLC.

The other area (which annoys me intensely), is the OVER hyping which Tamiya (unjustifiably) get. Even the announcement of some ancient re-pop will, if it's posted here as a Review or News item, will get an extraordinary amount of coverage. Review or cover a New release from another company and it'll get half the page views. I did a news story on Tamiya's 1/16th scale KV (R/C) and the page views were over 8000 - for a model which looks little better than the $100 R/C tanks which are available in toy stores?

The point is, there ARE manufacturers BEYOND Tamiya and they're providing a damn sight better service for the modeler..

if you've seen one in your LHS better grab it. Its one of those prized DML kits that's been OOP.

That is the problem with Tamiya. They don't feel like competing and on the other hand it is dissrespectful to their customers, which is us, the humble modellers. And talking about DML. I wish they had the instructions as good as Tamiya has them. Actually, their instructions are top notch. And we are saying that Tamiya makes money from R/C. Yes, I agree that this might be their main source of revenue, but we are not interested in R/C. We do plastic models and Tamiya should listen to us too - yeah right... keep dreaming.

No matter how often you discuss this, the facts of life will never change. Well, not in the near future anyway.

Tamiya sells. Period. The number of modellers who occassionally build a kit, on the kitchen table, purely for their enjoyment, who are not remotely interested in accuracy (what do you mean there were different types of Tiger tank...) and who just want a kit that goes together simply, and easily, using only glue and perhaps a piece of sand paper, outnumber us model junkies by a considerable margin... . Likewise for the likes of Airfix.
My LHS stocks a lot of Airfix, because they sell. They are crude, inaccurate, and parts for money, actually rather expensive. But they sell.

Talking to other modellers/visitors at modelshows (small local shows rather than the large ones) it never ceases to amaze me how few people are on the internet, or are active on modelling sites. These people are usually in awe of the models on display, and are commonly baffeled when you explain either how you did something or what AM set or model kit you used.
The old and well known brands are still the ones that sell to the majority of buyers, largely because the buyers don't really know the new(er) manufacturers.

The complexity of the likes of Dragon, Tristar and AFV Club will also put off those who only occassionally build kits. And I really feel sorry for somebody who has build a few Tamiya kits, and who then tries to cope with the instructions of a Dragon '3-in-1' kit....

besides, I like to build Tamiya kits, be it a beauty like the Dragon Wagon, or a simple pleasure like the Sd.kfz. 222.

It's a hobby of God's sake.

Tamiya works and too much credit is being put on the R/C Division. Granted thats what makes them tick, but even the R/C line has it's drawbacks.
I had a 1/16th "Bigfoot" 4x4 and the gearbox would give out, dog bones for the drives would slip, etc. I finally sold it after I put about $150.00 bucks in aftermarket into it just to get it to run!!
I refuse to buy Tamiya R/C because of that.

We are forgeting the 1/48 aircraft line, the 1/700th waterline kits, plus the 1/350th waterline kits, which are not to bad in there own right.

For myself Tamiya has been a test bed for improving my skills over the years. It beats the hell out of tossing out a $50.00+ kit after you mess it up.

Tamiya goods:
ok detail
easy to build
good instructions
good fit

Bad
oversimplified detail
expensive
not up to date

Dragon: Good
spectacular detail
lots of parts
goodies
good value for money (cheapish)
lost of varients
great fit and enjineering

Bad
terrible instructions
sometimes thick moldings
sometimes careless in places
accuracy issues

HTH

I'd agree with this if you put sometimes in front of each and every one of those. Except the one about Tamiya's instructions.

Not at all. In fact I sometimes think a lot of people don't realize that the majority of Tamiya's sales are in this sector. You've obviously never seen Tamiya at a Trade Fair. Plastic kits probably constitute around 5% of what's getting promoted.

Some of the 'Pro' arguments are pretty credible although what is frequently overlooked is that only a handful of their (almost) 300 Armor/AFV-Related subjects are modern mouldings. Personally, I find it incomprehensible when subjects such as their M4s are constantly getting built - add in the AM you need for them and Tasca or DML Shermans become absolute bargains.

People complain about 'how complex' DML are. Well, bad news people, AFVs ARE complex pieces of engineering. I like the fact that Tamiya exists - particularly for less-experienced modelrs to hone their skills on and (in particular) their 1/48th range. I'm sure the New Matilda WILL be good, i'm just sorry that with Tamiya there are NO possibilities of other variants coming in the future. Now, if some other company (particularly Bronco) had done it, we could have seen around 6 different variants...

No, I'm afraid that's not right.

Tamiya, or any other company, need only listen to the customers they need to stay profitable. If they are making their money off their RC line, then those are the customers who they need to listen to. On the AFV modelling side, if they are making an acceptable return on investment re-issuing 30 year old kits at most of new-kit prices and sufficient people are buying them, then they don't need to listen to squat. Their business model is working just fine, thank you.

Business is a soulless enterprise and anyone who listens to people who are not their core customers will soon go out of business. For Bronco, DML and the like, the enthusiast is the customer and they (sometimes, even frequently) listen to us. For Tamiya, who are making more than enough money off the tyro and purely recreational modeller, then listening to us would be harmful to them. They would be alienating that part of the market where they make their money and swapping them for a market that they currently don't seem to want to serve. It's a valid business decision and if it works for them, then that's the only thing that matters... to them.

For us, go buy someone else's kits. I do.

I have long ago lost any desire for Tamiya (or any other particular company) to produce any given model. All I want is a kit that's accurate of a subject I want to build. Who makes it and where they are matters not once those two criteria are met. If Tamiya never produced another kit I wouldn't care even a little bit. I'd continue to spend my money with those companies that make kits I want to build. And that's who should listen to me, people who want my money.

Paul