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Modeling in General
General discussions about modeling topics.
Do you enjoy going to model shows?
TankRat
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Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2008 - 10:36 PM UTC
This is important to me and I will explain at a later date, But I need feedback on this subject. What are the likes and dislikes you've notice about the modeling shows you have been to. What can be done to make the show worth going back to again in the upcoming year or years? I also need bad feedback about the shows that might have left bad thoughts and stop you from going back again. Thanks
Plasticbattle
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Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2008 - 01:16 AM UTC
Feedback .... good and bad ... can be a relative thing.
Somebody might like/dislike the judging system and feel this is their reason for a particular show, where other would disagree. Each and every individual show has their own venue that has advantages/disadvantages. Certain shows have loads of vendors .... others may have more specific vendors. Some shows may have a lot of local AMPS/IPMS members who will clean the board, others may not. A person may have the worst/best experience of their lives at a particular show, but does not mean that is the case for all. This list is endless.
Generally I think the more shows you attend, the better they get. You start to build up a contact network and a group of friends, where this is the only chance you get to meet them. Then theres the chance to see all these lovely models first hand, get inspired and hopefully take something back with you ... whether that be a memory, a feeling, a bargain or that particular kit that you´ve been after for years
MLD
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Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2008 - 01:45 AM UTC
I started going to model shows before the internet. I went to shop and to compete.
Now there is very little I will find at a show I cannot find online or do not already have.

My competetive urges have softened as well. Like Frank said, there are folks up here in New England that are going to win when they walk in the door. They are that good. I am not.
No sense getting my undies in a bunch over it.

I went through a period where I built subjects I was less interested in building in order to avoid the stiffer competition, I'm over that now.

I judge more now, but that is waning as well. I know little about open wheel race cars or sailing ships. I can spot build flaws, but these things I am asked to judge are models I would not spend as much time pouring over on my free time.
I know that a cadre of experienced builders is needed to make judging happen quickly and efficiently as well as train new judges for the future.

As a bit of an introvert, I am much more willing to statr a conversation with someone whose model I admire than I was before. I find myself talking more and judging and shopping less.

Ok, long setup to my actual answer.

I like larger open spaces between model tables.

I like well lit rooms.

I like a place to sit and chat/pick over my rafffle winnings/purchases.

I like decent on-site food/drink options

I like a decent raffle (I prefer the your ticket was drawn, come take something you are interested in off the table, but you have to be here to hear it. Rather than the ticket drawn and taped to boxtop. But this only works at smaller shows.)

I like having a make and take for kids. I work a shift or two at ours usually.

I like a speedy awards ceremony that is on time.


I dont like dark, hot, crowded rooms with lots of kids running wild.

I dont like home cooking. (locals winning all the awards)

I dont like seeing the same 497 figures ( I used to paint figures, but not well) show up over and over again. For that matter, I dislike seeing the same models over and over again. But that is a modelers need for attention issue not a show issue.



I just realized, I want my model show to take place in the Shire, in a Hobbit hole, with daycare...


Tell us more about why you are asking.

Mike
Sabot
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Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2008 - 03:03 AM UTC
Open area with good lighting.

Space between the rows, so folks looking at one side of table do not interfere with folks looking at the other side of the aisle.

Separate/semi-separate vendor areas, along with plenty of tables for folks to sit and chat, eat or inspect recent purchases.

Raised tables, these make looking at kits easier than spending the day bent over.

Bad experience: recently a man did not like the fact he did not receive awards for submarine kits that had won at other shows. Apparently he decided he would just take the awards (just small medals in the blue/clear cases, not large trophies or plaques) he thought he desevered.
TAFFY3
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Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2008 - 03:30 AM UTC
I have been going to shows in my area for a number of years. I still enjoy going, even though some of the novelty has worn off. The only thing that can kill a show for me is poor judging. I must say that there were very few instances, maybe two or three, when I and/or others questioned the results of the judging at a given show. The worst thing a judge can do is show partiality to a particular entrant because he, or she, is a fellow club member. The only other complaint is a shrinking number of vendors participating in shows in my area. One reason for going to a show is to find something your local hobby shop does not carry, or a real bargain. All things aside there is nothing like a show to meet people, exchange ideas, and see some really nice work. Al
Removed by original poster on 10/23/08 - 09:34:07 (GMT).
AJLaFleche
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Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2008 - 04:59 AM UTC
Yep, I enjoy doing the regional circuit. As a result, I’ve met three of the previous posters (MLD, Sabot and Taffy3) as well as regulars Grumpyolman, Tank Carl, Private Parts and Mongo Mel, as well as several others who aren’t here often.
I generally judge and have learned a lot from that. True, there are fewer vendors each year as age and the internet take their tolls. But them my stash and gray army are quite full and when I hit a big figure show, there are several draftees added to the rolls.
As Rob mentioned, raised tables in a well lit room make for a better experience as does adequate space between the tables. Logistics of available venues and the demand for many categories and vendors sometimes restrict his.
What hurts an event most is poor lighting forcing the judges to use penlights to see the details on a model. But when many of these places are set up primarily for weddings, there’s little you can do.
While special awards sponsored by individual club members add nice local flavors, there is one club that has one or two of these that are club specific, giving the impression of home cooking. Another of their wards is sponsored by a family and one of the family members almost always wins. Their judge’s favorite, seen for years a best of show, is chosen by ballot rather than form class winners. Last year, this resulted in a model that didn’t take any other awards winning which was a black mark on the judging and contest.
I don’t like the concept of sweeps and will not attend an event that is willing to give all the awards in a class to one builder, even though there have been times I might have taken more than one spot. I have no issues if there are only two builders in a class with three models, one of the guys doubling up, but if there are three builders, each one should get an award.
Another thing that is difficult are the entrants who don’t understand that when you can only give out three awards per class, judges HAVE to be picky. If there are two or three really good (or really bad, it happens!) models in contention, we have to, yes, look for the flaw to make the cut. Sometimes, the difference between first and second can be the ghost of a seam on a tank’s main gun. In an open system, they might both get gold, but there are no ties in most events.
On site food is of little consequence to me. I usually bring my lunch.
KoSprueOne
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Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2008 - 05:14 AM UTC
As stated above, I like good lighting on the contest display tables for viewing and taking pictures.
One of the two I go to every year has tables and chairs for building models and to kick back and chat with others.

I don't like paying for parking and then pay to get in. That is less money going to the vendors because I already spent it on parking my car. The alternative is to ride my bicycle to the show, but that will also decrease the money going to the vendors and the event because this will limit the amount of kits I can carry back.

Most importantly: I like that they exist near me and I would not like it if they didn't...





CReading
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Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2008 - 05:52 AM UTC
Good lighting is a must.

The SCHAMS group in Southern California put on a yearly show and the display tables are chest high, the models are not stacked deep . This may not be too kid friendly but it's very nice not to have to stoop over to see detail. Shows where attendees have to lean way over someone's display in order to see another 'up close' always frighten me.

A pet peeve of mine is when the club / organization putting on the show relegates the Diorama display section off to one side against a wall. I believe dioramas should be able to be seen from all sides and angles for full effect.

Cheers,
C.
milvehfan
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Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2008 - 07:36 AM UTC
Like most, I enjoy a show that has good lighting and space between tables, with a place to sit and chat. I enjoy viewing everyones work . I usually bring a model to these shows so that I can get some feedback so that I can improve my modeling skills. I dont ecpect to win anything as I really have no artisic ability or that super keen eye for detail but I am improving. I am Like a kid in a candy store, My primary reason for attending shows is that it is an oppertunity for me to shop for kits and items that I am interested in. As there are no LHS close by , I buy and trade at some of these shows, I get to see first hand what I am buying and usually find what I am looking for.at a decent price. Make and takes are great, I find that is a good tool for getting the younger generation involed in the hobby. What I dont like are those that provide feedback in a negative fashion, example, at the last show I attended I overheard a guy across the table say to his friend "That looks like SH*T , I would never have painted it that color." To my mind thats just being cruel, but I guess there are always a few boneheds around. Im glad the kid that placed the model on the table eariler was no longer in ear-shot of the comment.
HEY SABOT, I think I had that same bad experience, sounds like the same guy that made the above negative comment. he also was upset about not winning for his sub-build.

Keep On Modelin, milvehfan
Grumpyoldman
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Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2008 - 11:15 AM UTC
I love going to shows, even though I do not compete.
I always find something I've been looking for, normally in the bargain boxes under the table. "One mans trash is another mans gold" so they say.
I have always judged when asked to. I personally love the AMPS SYSTEM as it allows me to sit down while judging--- wonderful for old farts with bad backs.
But the best part is seeing old friends I do not normally see, except on line, and getting away from work for a week end. --- no cell phones allowed!

Things I dislike---
1. Tables too low, hey guys buy some table risers or make some from PVC pipes, like the figure shows do!
2. Poorly lit rooms.
3. Unsupervised kids running rampant.
4. Smelly people--- "I forgot the right guard" only works once!
5. Sloppy drunks at the bar. ---- Especially those that aren't from the show! If you are going to get drunk, get drunk neatly!
6. Expensive prices at the hotel store for those that forgot the right guard!
KoSprueOne
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Myanmar
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Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2008 - 02:43 PM UTC

Quoted Text

by: CReading

Good lighting is a must.

. . .

A pet peeve of mine is when the club / organization putting on the show relegates the Diorama display section off to one side against a wall. I believe dioramas should be able to be seen from all sides and angles for full effect.

Cheers,
C.



good point, Also different catagories for Sci-Fi dioramas from military dioramas from aircraft, from civilian, etc...


Quoted Text

by: Grumpyoldman
. . .
Things I dislike---
1. Tables too low, hey guys buy some table risers or make some from PVC pipes, like the figure shows do!
2. Poorly lit rooms.
3. Unsupervised kids running rampant.
4. Smelly people--- "I forgot the right guard" only works once!
5. Sloppy drunks at the bar. ---- Especially those that aren't from the show! If you are going to gt drunk, get drunk neatly!
6. Expensive prices at the hotel store for those that forgot the right guard!



More good points !





TAFFY3
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Posted: Monday, August 25, 2008 - 05:50 AM UTC
[quote]Good lighting is a must.

The SCHAMS group in Southern California put on a yearly show and the display tables are chest high, the models are not stacked deep . This may not be too kid friendly but it's very nice not to have to stoop over to see detail. Shows where attendees have to lean way over someone's display in order to see another 'up close' always frighten me.

A pet peeve of mine is when the club / organization putting on the show relegates the Diorama display section off to one side against a wall. I believe dioramas should be able to be seen from all sides and angles for full effect. Cheers,C. Hello Charles, unfortunately most shows are limited by the available display space. They try to allocate space by the expected number of entries in any given category. Dioramas may not be as popular in some areas as they are in others, so are given a less desirable location. I have a friend who builds boxed dioramas, and he often complains about the lack of availability of electrical outlets. Since these are usually along the walls, Dioramas may be placed there to avoid tripping over extension cords. I agree good lighting is definitely a plus, but again many clubs are hamstrung by the price of some venues and are therefore limited to a certain location be it optimal or not. Al


CReading
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Posted: Monday, August 25, 2008 - 06:26 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hello Charles, unfortunately most shows are limited by the available display space. They try to allocate space by the expected number of entries in any given category. Dioramas may not be as popular in some areas as they are in others, so are given a less desirable location. I have a friend who builds boxed dioramas, and he often complains about the lack of availability of electrical outlets. Since these are usually along the walls, Dioramas may be placed there to avoid tripping over extension cords. I agree good lighting is definitely a plus, but again many clubs are hamstrung by the price of some venues and are therefore limited to a certain location be it optimal or not. Al



Hello Al,
Thanks for your thoughts on my posting. Although I would agree with you on some show venues no having the space, the majority of shows I am thinking about actually had tables to spare. A lot of shows have whole table displays for non-competition pieces that aren't up against a wall.

{quote]good point, Also different catagories for Sci-Fi dioramas from military dioramas from aircraft, from civilian, etc...[/quote]

My other pet peeve. A dozen different categories for WW2 aircraft depending on scale, prop/non-prop,nationality etc and yet Dioramas generally are classified as "Dioramas-all subjects/all scales"
I've seen some pretty nice dioramas that don't even get a second look by judges because of their scale or subject matter.

I believe "boxed dioramas" or shadowboxes deserve a category all to themselves as there is a plethora of varying techniques that differ them from a standard diorama.

Rant over!
Cheers,
Charles
Deepgroove
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Posted: Monday, August 25, 2008 - 01:57 PM UTC
I've attended contests both local and regional for several years, and have considered it overall to be a wonderful experience. I'm in full agreement with everyone who cited good lighting, proper distance between tables, adequate table space, and a decent separation of vendor and competition areas.
I also totally agree with the negatives...questionable judging, judging that takes way too long, lack of space for all the entries, and so on.
I live in Texas, and compete in all the contests here I can, and the one in Lake Charles Louisiana.
One thing I like about the Louisiana contest (and apparently the majority of their contests) is a specific category for war game entries. I've done some 1/72 figure-related work in the past, and it had to go up against the usual 1/35 or larger pieces. While I heard many flattering comments on my work, competing against the larger scales seems to put it at an automatic disadvantage. Anyway, I'd like to see more events include a war game category.
My only other peeve to mention is contests that close the model area for judging. I've attended plenty of both, and from what I've observed it's been proven judging while keeping the area open can work. I hate barely beating the deadline for registration, placing my models, and starting to admire the work only to hear the announcement the area is closing. At one event this happened, and when I returned to view the models they were mostly all removed already!
I appreciate this opportunity to share my thoughts.
AJLaFleche
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Posted: Monday, August 25, 2008 - 03:27 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Also different catagories for Sci-Fi dioramas from military dioramas from aircraft, from civilian, etc...


That would be nice. However, the reality is there are not enough entries to warrant this at a regional, let alone a local event. The economies of running shows mean the club must consider the cost of buying awards for classes that have few entries. Any class with fewer than three entries means the club has wasted money on trophies.
As to locating dios...most I've seen over the years really are set up to be seen from one side so it matters little if it's against a wall or not. (That said, my club does have dios on a regualr table. Wall tables are used for overflow or display only. We are lucky to have a very large display room and more than enough tablses.)
TAFFY3
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Posted: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 - 08:03 AM UTC
Categories at most shows are divided by the number of entrants. For example 1/48 scale, single-engine, prop as opposed to 1/48, scale single-engine, jet. At any given show, a certain subject or scale may well be represented, or not. The reason for dividing a category is to be able to present more awards. Instead of 1st, 2nd, & 3rd out of forty models in a category , by splitting it up you can you can recognize a greater number of deserving models. A club usually has X number of awards and they assign them to a category by how many models are actually entered in it. I myself prefer the "Open-System" of judging, where you have Gold, Silver, and Bronze. If 20 models out of 100 are judged to be of the same high standard they are all awarded a gold medal, the same for silver, and bronze. AMPS and some figure shows use this system. The down side to this is cost. The more medals, or trophies, a club has to give out the more it costs the club. Most shows don't make a lot of money when all is said and done, and a club that is losing money by putting on a show is not going to be doing it for long. AL
AJLaFleche
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Posted: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 - 08:56 AM UTC

Quoted Text

. I myself prefer the "Open-System" of judging, where you have Gold, Silver, and Bronze. If 20 models out of 100 are judged to be of the same high standard they are all awarded a gold medal, the same for silver, and bronze. AMPS and some figure shows use this system.



You and me both...now if we can just get the rest of the world to follow the "Als", we're got it made!


Quoted Text

The down side to this is cost. The more medals, or trophies, a club has to give out the more it costs the club. Most shows don't make a lot of money when all is said and done, and a club that is losing money by putting on a show is not going to be doing it for long. AL

Not necessarilyy. You have fewer categories and no need for splits. The awards tend to be more generic and can be used form one event to the next, since you don't have to engrave "first place, 1/48th scale prop axis" and "1/35 closed topped track post 1945." In fact, you'd likely have 1/48th scale prop and "1/35 tracked" Since the number of golds depends on the number of "gold" quality models, which should be relatively small, you don't need as amany. Getting a gold should be intrinsically harder than a first, since yno one is guaranteed a gold and someone is always guaranteed a first. And since this style award is usually a medallion, the cost per unit is lower.

There was a huge debate on this issue in 2004 in IPMS. The idea of even a trial "secondary" group to be judged this way was shot down by the powers that be in Phoenix.
scj1014
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Posted: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 - 01:15 PM UTC
I enjoy going to model shows, mainly for the vendor room. I like to see things before I buy them and since the LHS can't possibly stock everything I'm interested in, the vendor room at a large model show is like model-geek heaven. All model shows should be well-lit with wide aisles.
A perfect example of a well-thought out model show is AMPS East...great venue, easy access, reasonable number of good vendors, great model entries and its adjacent to a major interstate highway. There are quality restaurants nearby, including one in the venue building, and for those from out of the area, plenty of quality lodging in the area.
I enjoy looking at the model entries and the seminars...especially when Tom Jentz or Steve Zaloga are conducting them. They are always entertaining and I always learn something.

I don't enter models for competition, but I enjoy seeing others rewarded for their achievements. I am troubled by the occassional "politics" that enter into the awards ceremonies. My biggest concern is when grown men get angry because they didn't get the award they think they deserved and start voiceing their displeasure...its only a hobby...you didn't win...accept it like a man and congratulate those who did win awards...its what adults do.
Sandy
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Posted: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 - 11:06 PM UTC
Hi all, Good points have all ready been covered by the previous posters , bad is parents not in control of their children , picking up models and , when told not to do it , they the parents turn on you . With coments like, It is my job to to do that or he cannot read the notice nor can I . Also the parents who talk over you as if you are not there. Comments he is sad to build models ; what a waste of time, I cannot see the point . I always try to place at least a yard between the edge of the table and the first model to avoid temptation, cheers ian
Removed by original poster on 08/27/08 - 15:03:50 (GMT).
TAFFY3
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Posted: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 02:18 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi all, Good points have all ready been covered by the previous posters , bad is parents not in control of their children , picking up models and , when told not to do it , they the parents turn on you . With coments like, It is my job to to do that or he cannot read the notice nor can I . Also the parents who talk over you as if you are not there. Comments he is sad to build models ; what a waste of time, I cannot see the point . I always try to place at least a yard between the edge of the table and the first model to avoid temptation, cheers ian

Hello Ian, kids can be a problem, and some parents definitely should have been neutered, but I've seen more adults who should know better be a problem. I was at a crowded show, in a small room with narrow aisles, where there was a lady wearing a back-pack. Every time she turned around I cringed, expecting the worst. People with cameras on a neck strap can also be a hazard. Although in this age of digital cameras that danger has lessened. Judges can also inadvertantly damage a model while inspecting it. I have been a judge at our local area shows for many years and I have been responsible on one occasion for damaging a model. I have also had models of mine damaged by judges. I do feel that a judge should locate the modeler whose piece he damaged, and explain the circumstances, and apologize. I understand the risk in bringing a model to a show, and I know judges are as careful as they can be. Unfortunately it is necessary to examine the underside of some models during judging, in particular, aircraft. I agree that some people are less than tactful when it comes to discussing someone's work, and like you, I have seen some people be downright rude. Whenever I overhear someone like that I want to ask which model(s) are their's. I'm willing to bet they don't have a model there. Like everything we do there are downsides, but overall, my experiences at the shows I have gone to have been very positive.
Al
NebLWeffah
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Posted: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 05:08 AM UTC
I try to go to as many model shows as I can. I'm lucky because there's three in my city every year and another two or three that are within reasonable driving distance.

My main delight in going to shows is the opportunity to see everyone's work in one place at one time and the chance to talk to people about it. The internet is fine but to talk to a real live person about their model is irreplacable.

Some of the points made so far I'd like to echo as it some of the same stuff I feel is important:

- Table leg extensions. Constantly bending over can be hard on an older person's back
- Good lighting. Some of the best show photographs I've seen have good strong natural light in them and look great.
- Good adverising and lot's of enteries. Small shows are good too but nothing beats tables full of models and lot's of participation.
- Show food is important. I usually bring lunches or snacks but a resonably priced line of decent food is good.
- Having a way to let people that brought cameras send in their pics afterwards for the show record. Some way to upload them to a website or send a CD to a central organizer and then have them posted somewhere is really good to have.

Oh, and I would like to echo Grumpy's comments about personal hygiene....some of these show rooms make for pretty close quarters and a little soap, a little toothpaste and some deodorant make for a more pleasant experience for all.

my 2 cents worth....thanks

Bob
kemo
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Posted: Friday, September 05, 2008 - 05:32 PM UTC
A few pros...
Of course it is nice to place which makes the trip and work rewarding. I really like seeing and learning new techniques from others. A nice selection for aftermarket parts is a plus for me. My father and myself use shows a time to spend together.

Cons...
People who do not look where they are going and are constantly bumping into you.
Biggest pet peeve..person brings the SAME model to every show. Do something new!
TankRat
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Posted: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 04:14 AM UTC
Wow..Better responce than I expected and hope more will join with their thoughts.
The private emails keep asking me what I am up too. Ok I'll let the cat out of the bag so to speak.

The one thing I am tired of is seeing hobby compititions like paintball and RC racing have compititon shows with large award winning purses.

So I am thinking of asking the local IPMS if we could add a little more to the 2010 IPMS Show here in Phoenix Arizona. 500.00 1st prize cash award plus a 200.00 to 500.00 gift certificate to our store. 2nd place prize is a 200.00-500.00 gift cert. to our store.

I would like to see these 2 awards go to the AFV that looks to be as realsitic(if thats a word) as we think it should be.

Whats your opinion?
 _GOTOTOP