_GOTOBOTTOM
Modeling in General: Advice on...
Need some general advice? Place it here.
MGU 101 - Glues
slodder
Visit this Community
North Carolina, United States
Member Since: February 22, 2002
entire network: 11,718 Posts
KitMaker Network: 2,584 Posts
Posted: Sunday, March 11, 2007 - 03:49 PM UTC
Glue 101

There are a ton of glues out there. Not only are there many different types of glues, but many brands within each type.
Here are a few

  • Cement - Tube Glue
  • Super Glue - CA
  • Liquid
  • Two Part Epoxy
  • White Glue – PVA


    Each has its own characteristics and it’s own ‘strong’ points. I’m going to break each down and give it’s strengths and general uses.
    Cement – Tube Glue
    This is what I grew up with – Testors is the most common. This glue is thick gummy medium dry time glue. It becomes tacky quickly yet remains ‘workable’ for a minute or two. Its main ingredient is toluene which chemically alters the plastic surface it’s applied to. This glue creates a great long term bond.
    There are a few drawbacks. One is that it can be messy. It creates spider web string that can ‘fly’ out of control and land on your kit. It is thick and can ooze out of your seam and create lumps and blobs when you apply pressure to the two pieces.

    Super Glue – CA
    Super glue is a ubiquitous term. It covers a wide range of glues. From gap fillers to thin glues. CA stands for cyanoacrylates. It works through evaporation and creates a bond between two pieces. Interestingly this glue needs water to work. Trace amounts of water cause a molecular change to take place and as the water evaporates the resin is left in strand form in all the nooks and crannies. So with this in mind you need to consider two things in the use of CA. One, a rough surface to give the glue something to ‘bite’ and two, a bit of water content in the materials – plastics, ceramics, resins, they all have a bit.
    This is a very common glue with lots of variations, from thicker gap filling style to thin capillary type glue.
    These glues are common and easy to use. The biggest drawback is the placement time is short. By that I mean the time you have from putting the glue on the piece to when you position the piece. The dry time is very short also. You just have to test fit (see previous MGU threads).
    liquid glues
    These are very thin ‘welding’ type glues. On the surface they appear similar to CA but aren’t at all. They work by chemically altering the plastics and literally welding the pieces together. These glues are great when you are careful. You only have to use a little bit. The application of these is different than most glue. Most glues you put the glue on one piece then put the two pieces together. With liquid glues you have to hold the two pieces together and apply the glue to seam. Then capillary action will draw the glue down the seam and the glue welds the pieces.
    The up side of this glue is that it is FAST, effective and leaves you with a great looking seam.
    The down side is that you need fairly uncommon tool to apply, either a very small pipette or syringe of some type. Some come with a long applicator which makes them a better choice. Another downside is that you typically need three hands to use these glues. Two hands to hold the pieces together and one to apply the glue.
    These aren’t for beginners, practice is key with these glues.
    two part epoxy
    These are heavy duty glues. One part is a hardening agent, the other is a resin. You have to mix equal parts of both and use the mixture on your parts. There is usually a 15 to 20 minute ‘work time’ after you mix it. Then a cure time of roughly 24 hours. These materials create a bond between the two surfaces relying on nooks and crannies to hold. Therefore, your surfaces should not be smooth and its best if the materials are porous.
    The good side of this glue is its strength; it creates a very permanent strong bond.
    The downsides are that it has a mixing stage. This is not terrible; it’s just one more thing to do. Normally, because of its strength it gets used for larger pieces. This puts you in the position of holding two large pieces together until the glue cures.

    White Glue
    White glue is a also commonly referred to as PVA (polyvinyl acetate). This is a bonding agent also so it is best if your materials are porous. It’s not an overall strong glue. Is has dry time of anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour. Although you can work with it sooner as long as its tacky.
    The up side to PVA is its cheap, it’s everywhere, and it dries clear. This means it can be used for airplane canopies, car windows and such.
    The downside is that it’s not very strong and not water resistant. So if you do use it for canopies make sure your model does not get bumped.

    Here is what I use these glues for and have seen them used for
    Tube Glue – injected mold plastic models. During assembly I use this up to 76% of the time.
    CA – detail parts on resin kits or injected plastics. Scratch building styrene sheets. PE detail sets. Diorama details of almost any variety, wood, plastic, metal, leaves etc.
    Liquid - I use this on scratch building materials and on injected mold pieces
    Two Part Epoxy – I use this on plaster kits and resin kits and where strength is key. I use this quite often when gluing figures to bases when only one foot is touching the base.
    White Glue – I use this in diorama projects on wooden assemblies, plaster assemblies. I use this in a wash to cover large areas that will have debris dropped on them. Any paper product gets PVA.

    How I use any glue is simply a variation on a theme. The theme is never use glue straight from the container. You have more control over the glue and you reduce the change of a big mishap and you have less clean up of the kit.
    I usually have a soda bottle lid, or yogurt tin, or scrap piece of plastic that I drop glue on first. Then I use a piece of stretched sprue, or a toothpick to dip in the glue drop and then apply small amounts to the kit parts.



    what do you use and how do you use it?
  • Tarok
    Visit this Community
    Victoria, Australia
    Member Since: July 28, 2004
    entire network: 10,889 Posts
    KitMaker Network: 2,373 Posts
    Posted: Sunday, March 11, 2007 - 04:09 PM UTC
    Hi Scott,

    Once again, thanks for a comprehensively researched and informative installment.

    Just to add, and I hope I'm not repeating what you have already said...

    CA glues, in addition to different densities/thinknesses also have different setting times - from a few seconds to a minute or so. Naturally they all have their place and usefullness.

    Epoxy glues... ditto as per CA glues. Just substiture the seconds for minutes and hours


    Typically for metal and resin figures I try to use epoxy glue as much as possible for the assembly of the figure. I use one that sets in 1-5 minutes. I'll use CA glue for smaller, lighter parts.

    Where do I buy my glues? Unfortunately not at the LHS. I find that LHS's (in my area anyways) tend to be overpriced with regards to epoxy putties, epoxy glues and CA glues. I buy the "normal" stuff from the supermarkets, hardware stores and art supply stores.

    How do I use it? I mix the epoxy glue or put a few drops of CA into my palette (I have a plastic paint palette that I cover with tin foil - when all the "pots" have been used, just replace the foil... ) and then apply with a sharpened match stick or toothpick

    HTH

    Rudi
    propboy44256
    Visit this Community
    Ohio, United States
    Member Since: November 20, 2002
    entire network: 1,038 Posts
    KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
    Posted: Sunday, March 11, 2007 - 06:48 PM UTC
    Is white glue = elmers glue..ie school glue?
    Tarok
    Visit this Community
    Victoria, Australia
    Member Since: July 28, 2004
    entire network: 10,889 Posts
    KitMaker Network: 2,373 Posts
    Posted: Sunday, March 11, 2007 - 07:01 PM UTC

    Quoted Text

    Is white glue = elmers glue..ie school glue?



    Yup. You got it
    Drader
    Visit this Community
    Wales, United Kingdom
    Member Since: July 20, 2004
    entire network: 3,791 Posts
    KitMaker Network: 765 Posts
    Posted: Sunday, March 11, 2007 - 07:44 PM UTC
    I find that old scalpel blades make good applicators for CA adhesives. Used without a handle the point is for small applications while the cutting edge is great for touching glue into seams. Like Rudi, I put a drop of CA onto foil and pick it up from there. Once the glue has gone off, the foil can be flexed and the blob removed. Then I reuse the foil

    Some CA remain fluid longer if dropped onto adhesive tape, I find this is a nuisance as the chances of touching the tape by accident are high.

    With epoxies, I use any old scraps of cardboard that are handy for mixing on.

    David
    slodder
    Visit this Community
    North Carolina, United States
    Member Since: February 22, 2002
    entire network: 11,718 Posts
    KitMaker Network: 2,584 Posts
    Posted: Sunday, March 11, 2007 - 07:47 PM UTC
    I have used old #11 blades as applicators as well. They do get into tight spots very well.


    Other small applicators are straight pins used in sewing. Nice small and a dip in fingernail polish remover softens the glue to remove it.
    matt
    Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
    Visit this Community
    New York, United States
    Member Since: February 28, 2002
    entire network: 5,957 Posts
    KitMaker Network: 2,626 Posts
    Posted: Sunday, March 11, 2007 - 08:25 PM UTC
    Liquid Glue.... almost exclusively for Plastic to Plastic, unless I need a "fast" bond then it's CA.

    CA for most resin & Metal attachement, But use Epoxy as well.

    PVA is used for groundwork.

    The Liquid ahs the old "brush n the bottle" which works nice.

    CA a drop in a soda bottle lid and Ise tooth picks to apply.

    Epoxy can get messy...LOL
    Johnston_RCR
    Visit this Community
    Ontario, Canada
    Member Since: April 01, 2006
    entire network: 470 Posts
    KitMaker Network: 101 Posts
    Posted: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 04:01 AM UTC
    I use cement for all my models. Its easy to use, and you can just wipe the excess of after pushing the two parts together. Then again, I have only worked with plastic so far. So I dont know what else I may use later. Trial and error.
     _GOTOTOP