Our P4 is dying{kept me offline last couple of days...slower than some of my builds!} and the wife and I were talking about what to replace it with yet again another Pentium/IBM based{using the kids P3 right now}. I'm kinda tired of the same old thing...IBM based/pentium. I want to try a mac...or Imac, but the wife says they're no good for what we'd use it for...mind you this is based on "her" gut feelings. We've had registry issues, corrupt files, missing DLL's and all sorts of gremlins from time to time...I think a mac would avoid some of this, but I hear macs are for creative people...I'd only use it for everyday web searching, shopping{for models} and coming here...not very creative. What do you work with and why...Mac owners, I'd love to really hear your end of it! IBM based folks...tell me if the Pent processors are really needed...I've always had a Pentium but wonder if the other {athlon/duo core....} would be fine if not better.

I can't say anything pro or con about the Macs. On the other hand as far as PCs I've had AMD Athalons now for several years and I see no reason to go back to Intel Pentiums. I worked for a HP for several years and from what I've read the reason Dell isn't doing as well now days as HP is because of their decision to NOT go with AMD as quickly as HP did. AMD is pound for pound a much better value for the buck than Intel.

Thank you...the wife and I are the only ones in our{both of us} families that have always had Pent processors...can't tell you why, but it felt the right thing to have...I now feel that we've been alittle sheepish about that call and this is why I'm reaching out for thoughts on the matter. Funny thing though...no-one I know has a mac, so any input I get is all IBM based. The only reason the rest of the families get what they is about cost...which has been cheaper than what we spend{n't} since we got Pentiums. "Stick with what ya know" has been a long term motto here, but I feel boxed in lately...other thing is convincing the wife!

Bob,

I am a Mac convert. I had enough of PC's and Windows and all the problems that 12 years of using them dumped on me over and over. I bought a Mac mini w/the 1.83GHz super drive and have not looked back. All I do is what you said you do and it works fine for me. Are model builders not creative people?

As for PC's I have owned too many. Since 1995 I have had 5 HP's,an NEC, a Packard-Bell, a Sony, & an IBM... I have owned PC's w/AMD and Intel processors...that's not bragging - if anything it is sad & embarrassing. No more though.

For me, it depends what I'm using it for. If I'm playing games, doing paperwork/homework/writing papers, browsing the internet, using iTunes (yes a Mac program), storing and editing photos, communicating with people, or just about anything else, I use a PC. If I am in a destructive mood or want to be confused on how to use a different interface, I use a Mac. I am one of those people who, for absolutely petty reasons, hate Macs. They are excellent for media editing (photos, videos, music, etc), but I don't do those things, so a PC is good enough for me. Plus I HATE the one-button mouse. Really, the difference between a PC and a Mac for me is a lot like being completely fluent in English and its grammer and then trying to learn something like Spanish or German. Its just unfathomable that something like a Mac can be so easy after learning something so complicated as a PC. But again, I'm petty.

Seriously, whil ethe above is true and I am biased towards PCs, given what you are using it for, buying a PC is still probably the way to go. The question is whether putting up with a few bugs is better or worse than learning to use a mac - something that can be just as frustrating. As for the duo core and all that, I haven't really researched it, but my understanding is that they really are only the most useful if you are using multiple programs at the same time.

Jeff

Well it's probably worth noting that Apple just recently switched to Intel based processors and away from their long standing reliance on Motorolla. As for which is better... ummm... how deep is your wallet? You can buy a $400 PC from Dell that is fine for crusing the internet and "non-creative" things. Or you can spend thousands on a Mac.

Seems like an easy choice to me. :-)

Cheers,
Jim

My Mac did not cost thousands... More like 1200 and that was because I bought their keyboard to go with it. Processors are processors - I saw no benefit having an Intel over an AMD. I'm not going to make an argument because it will go nowhere - I 'm just finally happy with what I use - to each their own.



Jeff,
You can use a std. mouse w/a Mac I use a Logitech track-ball.

APPLE! :-)

I don't think only the price is important. What is important is what you do with your computer. I use Macs for more than 15 years now and I wouldn't change...
Apart from the fact that there are far less video games for it, everything else is better on an Apple computer!

Jim, you said the graphics on Aeroscale were pretty good... thank my iMac for that!

Jean-Luc

Mac all the way!!! I have one of the new Intel Macs and I can run any PC program I want. They may coat a little more, but you get what you pay for.

How does that work? Do you have OSX and XP both installed?

Jim

Did I really say "pretty good"? I meant to say EXCELLENT!

And for the record if you have the money, don't mind fewer software choices, and are some who works in graphics or advertising... Mac is the way you should go.

Of course that said there is no perfect computer so don't expect the grass to be greener no matter which OS/harware you use.

Cheers,
Jim

And for kicks I went to the Apple site to check prices. The iMacs are priced competitively now. But I don't really consider a proprietary iMac system to be comparable to a desktop PC (with it's case and upgradable slots, etc). Case in point... I just added a new hard-drive to my year old Dell to support more space for MP3s.

Also for fun I configured the top of the line system for the Mac Pro... are you ready??

$19,672.00 !!!!

No they aren't expensive. :-) :-) :-)

Jim

Yeah those are (let's leave those to Skywalker Ranch or ILM to buy). As for a proprietary system - I have all these external hard drives left over from backing up my PC's due to their nature to crash or be overcome w/some sort of illness despite all measures of anti-spam/virus protection so I have somewhere around 300Gb of external hard drive space :-) So I'm set - I'll never come close to filling those up anyways.

I really do believe that when it comes to computers PC and Macs might as well be different religions. While there are those, like Alex, who get converted, but for the most part there are those who pray to the PC gods, and those to the Mac gods, and both sides consider the other side pagans.

As an aside I think the current Mac commercials border on brilliant. I can't stand the Mac jerk, or the fact they make the PC guy look like a total loser, but they are effective.

Nothing really valuable to add to this conversation, but...




That's not a HW issue... that's a OS or SW issue, which would be unfair to blame on the type of PC or processor you're using. I'm running an Intel Pentium 3 800Mhz at home (please share my pain), and apart from USB related connectivity issues I'm now having with my new mobile phone, I've never had HW problems. Any problems I've had have been OS related. Sure I've had missing drivers from time to time, but hey, who honestly hasn't?

My 0.02ZAR

Rudi

I think this pretty much is the exact visualisation of my relation versus Mac

Crash Different

I have worked in numerous design and multimedia studio's and it depended on what the media was that was produced there what computers you used so I had my nice part of battles against the mac. Also at school we were taught to use both systems and I have learned to work with several OS' for mac. I can say that it is probably the less user friendly OS in the world. It is Instable, It shuts down whenever it wants but especially when you don't need it and when you don't want it to. When there is something wrong with the system big chance you can't repair it yourself and that you have to fly in an expert from somewhere in the land to help you with your problems. The things got a bit better with OS X but not to write home about... At the last design station where I worked I was really ready to unhook it and toss it in the harbour next to where we had the office. The only thing MAC has not much problems with is Virusses. I think that is because it doesn't need them to have a life of it's own.

Being a Multimedia guy a PC is much better, faster, more stabile, Can run all programs... when something is wrong and I can't fix it myself there are in my village alone 20 guys who can help me for the cost of a couple of bottles of beer. And I can name a whole bunch of other examples of why PC is better then mac.

I have to give credit to mac that their designs of their hardware is topnotch... but for me good looks are not enough... I earn my money with performance... Not how dandy my screen is.

One thing I have noticed during my years in several studio's was that the people who were always bragging about how good the mac is and that the PC never can top that actually never used a PC in their life... Pretty strong words then for something you really don't have experience with.

Nope from my double experience I can say that the PC wins it with a streetlentgh...

With friendly greetz

Robert Blokker

I am a convinced Mac user. I have worked on both Mac's and PC's the clear choice for me will always be a Mac. The stability of software is uncompareable to a PC. I have worked on Mac's since they came out. I am in the printing industry. We primarily use Mac's, we do have a PC for clients that do not use Mac graphic programs. I can say without prejudice that the Mac's are more trouble free. We have had more problems with our PC's and have had to replace them more often. I do my work from a mini Mac, also very competively priced. The down side, is yes, there are less programs available. However, it still fits the needs of both my wife and myself. My wife works on a PC professionally, but at home she is very impressed with the Mac. She still does all the things she use to do on a PC, but now does everything on the Mac. For your needs if you decide, I would consider an iMac or a Mac mini.

Paul

Edit: If you should choose a PC, I would suggest a Dell. These have had better reliability than the other main line PC's we have had at work in the past. All our computers are used 24/7, we run 3 shifts everyday.

I would stay with IBM, there is software such as clean-up and regseeker that can manage and keep your system fast and responsive. Its tuff to say, but microsoft is not going away, and 90% of us are using it.

On my Intel Mac I am running OSX and with a piece of software called bootcamp I am also running XP.
I can also switch between the two. For me it is the best of both worlds.

Wow, better than I expected...funny thing is the wife has her mind set on a dell for us, but she's not sure she wants the new Vista windows or the old XP{which we have}...I'll work on anything so it doesn't matter to me.
She talked me into an all in one{printer/fax/copy/scanner} and I have to admit I like it. Our 2nd Epson C86 died two weeks ago, so I went out and got an HP C6180....very impressive! That's how I knew our P4 cow computer{gateway} was bitting the dust...ya know ya got a problem when it takes over 10hrs to load the disc from the new all in one{and it was only 80% doen then}...think the processor is going..longer it loaded the slower it got...data transfer rate was down to 2K!{on a 1.6g speed machine with 512DDR}.

I am in a similar boat in that my mother board crashed and I need to get a new computer. All that is offered, without spending more, now through Dell and Gateway is Vista. I am hearing nothing good about Vista, with the biggest issue for me being that Vista will continually call home, slowing your system, and not allow older programs to work and even removin programs that you may want from your computer. I too have been exploring the Mac possibility, but am not sure what I am going to do.

Sean

Sean, Vista is supposed to be a more heavily armored version of XP...so I hear. Said armor does seem to dislike certain old programs or formats for fear of hackability issues...so I'm told...
...but lets face it...show me a "new windows"{98 version on} that hasn't had issues more or less...I was just getting XP patched up enough to feel somewhat safe and now it's gonna start all over again...hahaha.

Bob, I agree with you about the issues proevious windows versions have had. However, the fine print needs to be read when you buy Vista. Vista is set up to continually phone home, which is why people have to buy new systems to have a chance to get it to run, causing resources to be tied up. The phone home allows vista to look at every program you have on your machine, and then Microsoft will determine if it should be there. If they feel it should not, they will delete it for you. In effect it is like when you are at work. You don't own that computer or the software and your company can do anything it wants to the computer that you use, because they own. Microsoft is treating your home computer usage of their Vista the same why. According to the new philosophie of Vista, you only have limited rights when leasing their product on your computer.

Also, another fun fact. When you buy the the Vista you agree to these terms. You agree to not bad mouth Vista in public if you use Vista which includes building a website saying what is wrong with Vista. If you are a liscenced Microsoft dealer or contractor and you are caught bad mouthing Vista, Microsoft will pull your autorization.

Welcome to Monopoly land.

I have been a fan of Microsoft over Apple for a long time. I am disappointed by this approach from Microsoft, so much that I will probably buy an Apple.

Sean

or just stick with XP..

Microsoft corner the market by bundling their software with every new computer that you buy. When you buy a new computer, tell the sales person you don't want Vista, and will go elsewhere if they can not accomodate you.

Henk, I plan on sticking with XP home and I know the wife feels the same. Heck, I'll put 98se on there if I have to....I've got the full disc for it.