Obviously, many of us assume (particularly people like me), that if the 'net didn't exist, that modelling wouldn't exist either.However, i'm just beginning to wonder if this is as correct as it seems at first glance...

When I began modelling seriously, the only points of contact were modeling clubs and the magazines. Networking in those days, was done through these mediums and conversations with other modellers at shows or model shops (which were 'unofficial' contact points).

There is I feel a tendency to believe that the 'net is the only valuable source of information and that the (print) magazines are an anachronism. However, the fact that there are STILL magazines out there and the manufacturers still feel there is a need (and value) in advertising in these mediums, tell me that sometimes we tend to 'over-inflate' the importance of the 'net as a medium.

Now, this is NOT a criticism of the 'net - on the contrary, where I live there aren't exactly a lot of modellers so, my only contact is via the Internet using such mediums as sites like this and forms of (direct) communication like SKYPE or MSN Messenger. Without these mediums, I'd be totally isolated.

So, the question is firstly, how many modellers do YOU know who (happily) don't use the 'web? And, will there come a point when the 'web will COMPLETELY replace the conventional print mediums?

there are many drawers in your question..
i model for 25 years + and only found the desire to put my stuff on internet last may.. though i am working on internet realms since 1998. I would say without giving it a second thought that for some people, the use of internet for their modelling is a nice way to make some friends and keep contact with the world, that these are the poeple who would normally go to a club, or simply can't because they are geographically isolated people and yet feel the need to share their stuff.
But for those who are following a personal agenda with their modelling, internet is only a side thing to their passion. I took the bug here because I met some nice people in the way, but i could stop tomorow and that would not have any influence on my work

I do think the importance of internet as you put it is not inflated! But you see, it took me 4 days in and out to get through Scott's great "Sparrow" article on modelgeek, not because of weak english abilities, but simply because to read a 13 pages long article on a screen is something hard, and printing it on paper is expensive. i therefore think that nothing can replace internet for what it's the best at: instant NEWS. But for in depht articles, printing matter is certainly the best. until they invent some lightweight portable screen which is nice for the eyes, nothing will ever replace paper me thinks..

Another thing: I now tend to think that "the model is the picture". I mean, we won't have the chance to witness in real the actual job done on a model or a diorama will we? or then we have lots of money and travel the world to see every Euromilitaire-like fair. that means that the real "piece of art" is not the model anymore, but the picture you are doing of the model..

sorry for any un-needed developpements to the original question, just my 2 European euros cents..

It certainly is vital for me as I truly do not have a LHS. It would be a reasonable drive for me to my nearest and the selection on offer isn't fantastic. So without the net my hobby would be stunted.

I would use my local shop if there was one though.

H

Hi guys,
Jim I think you've pretty much hit the " nail on the head "-Istill think the hobby would exist without the net, but it would be less convenient to get information from a knowledgeable group of people. I used to make phone calls to fellow modelers and wait for club meetings and shows to find either a piece of info needed for research, or extra parts and such. I have hundreds of reference books built up after over twenty years in the hobby but every once in a while I won't be able to find something. Until I got a computer a few years ago, it was extremely difficult to reach the widest possible audience in the shortest period of time to find an answer to a question. The net allows us to do that-not to mention making purchases without leaving the home. I know the net may be a sore point with some local hobby store owners, but it's convenient and many times it's cheaper even with shipping. However, I still frequent about three hobby stores in my area on a regular basis and I've never gone home empty handed! Something very important to me is the ability to access the net anywhere-I'm responding from a base in Iraq! I can still do research from here and get other info as well as keep up with the hobby. Well ,that's my two cents worth.
Take care, Rich M.

Well of the (not very many) modellers I do know, all of them use the net. I also think that I would recommend using the net to anyone who didn't.

For me the net is a really useful research tool which complements printed material, and which won't replace it. I can't really imagine (and wouldn't want to) paging through something like Chars B au combat on screen. On the other hand the net offers a huge range of photo sites that cover stuff that would never see publication.

David

Jim, I think there are a lot of modellers who don’t use the web for a number of reasons. There a lot of technophobes who say they CAN’T use a computer. Plus there is the question of access and the availability of broadband.
If I didn’t have the web I would probably join a club but the joy of the web is firstly that someone out there will know the answer to your query and also I don’t have to put up with some of the B***S**t and cliques that I remember from the club I belonged to in the 80’s.
I do like magazines and books but I’m very selective about those I buy. As Jean-Bernard says reading a twelve-page article on the web is tiresome and sometimes I will print out something rather than read online.
I do think we will see more of the system that AFV modeller has where you can pay to download specific articles but there seems to be enough customers out there to keep magazines going. It will be interesting to see what way the market goes for magazines with the increase in broadband availability and computer literacy especially as computers become less expensive

On another note I think that personally I would get a lot more modelling done if I didn't have internet access.

Some may not like the idea, but, regarding the 'future' of modelling on the 'web, I personally support the idea of subscription content. The costs of running a website are continuing to increase and web types like Network 54 are simply looking tired and uninteresting (content notwithstanding) - people want a more 'jazzy' site with a high visual content.

This thread actually originated with a conversation I had with the owner of a well-known manufacturer when we both concurred that many modellers don't (or won't) use the 'web for a variety of reasons. Therefore, I don't (personally) see the magazines in any kind of danger in the forseeable future.

Having spoken to a number of modellers here in Spain, it is remarkable just how few actually have 'net access - not because of problems of access (on the contrary, Broadband is VERY easy to obtain here) but and inherent reluctance - for whatever reasons...

wot? you mean that kitmaker should become something like a pay site? is it lost in translation? if that is what you meant, 2 days after you would have a new free kitmaker site with all the discontent from such a decision flooding in..




Not that sure. I would have say the contrary actually. But it's sure that by its developpements, the kitmaker sites are certainly costing quite a lot -and the costs are likely of increase with the amount of new people coming in.



of course, who wouldn't

as for the amount of modellers not using internet, I totally agree with you. there is also the english language that stops a lot of people. I can't believe i only see 6 Frenchs or so contributing regularly to forums..

Hehehe - only my PERSONAL opinion and even then, only some of the content would be part of the 'subscription' package. It's the way a considerable number of websites are going and while it may be personally desirable, many people would find it a 'step too far'. It would mean a completely 'professional' site, just like a magazine.

Since people buy 'paper' magazines, why not 'virtual' ones as well?

Yes, I know many modelers in my local IPMS clubs that do not use the net. I would guess about 10 or more modelers for each club I've belonged to. Personally, I built many more models on average before the internet came than after. I would call the net a building distractor, although it is a very useful tool.

Even now, I build about 7-10 kits to every one model I post photos of online. I normally only post photos of my kits if it is for a group build. I'm not much better at club meetings; I only bring maybe 2-3 kits to meetings out of the 7-10 kits I build.

It may also be worth noting that even though the 'net is a vital part of their 'actual' business, a surprising amount of manufacturers don't take it as seriously as they could. Jean-Bernard's comment about language use is also a significant factor. Due to the (virtually) complete domination of English on the WWW, if you don't have fairly sophisticated language skills, the tendency is to avoid many of the more popular sites....

I guess if we are talking about the future of things, I'd have to say the way my kids are using the net the possiblity of paper being done away with surely exists. Then again that maybe could happen in my lifetime, certainly not sooner. My oldest son, Daniel age 17, would rather meet his friends in a game on the net sooner than in real life. Scary thought to me, but totally natural in his circuit of friends.

I live so far away from the real modelling community that I would be also totally isolated otherwise. I've gone to a few club meetings, but if Plasticbattle wasn't a member there I wouldn't even bother. Many are very talented, but breaking into the cliques is too exhausting.

I don't subscribe to any paper magazine, because the advertisments are always meant for some other area to which I do not have any access to. Modelling content is found on the net so everything else is dravel in my book.

There is a point where I could pay for a website, but thus far I have never seen the benefits to do it. The net is definitly becoming a viable market for everybody, seeing that is in fact readially available. Even countries that you wouldn't expect have very good broadband capabilities. I've been involved in a company where broadband was put in before running indoor water was...

I'm sure things will change with time as security beefs up. Once you make it very secure all you have to do is talk the unwilling into using it. Some of my best contacts are aged 70+, who say they can't understand why they were so against the internet and would never turn back...

So many things we grew up with in the 50's and 60's have virtually dissappeared like doctors making house calls or telephhones having a "Dial". Fortunately, everytime I visit my LHS, receive my monthly model magazines in the mail or even visit this site, I am reminded that thankfully, this hobby is one of the few things in life that remains as it has always been for me but with the internet and manufacturing technology is now enhanced and better than ever!!!

Thank you,
Gary

I have often thought of scale modelling as a "closet" hobby, by that I mean it is a hobby where we each are working on our projects by ourselves in relative isolation. I have lived in many small northern Ontario towns where there was no hobby store, no other modellers, and it was a "lonely" hobby. Along came the internet and even with a slow speed dial up connection you are suddenly connected to the world!! You see and hear about all the new releases, read the reviews, talk to other modellers. There is a sense of connection. Now I live in an area with a great model club, and numerous stores within a one hour drive, but I still enjoy coming to armorama to read the reviews, the forums and to see some of the excellent builds.

Do I buy model mags? Yes, but unless I subscribe, the selection in this area is relayively poor, but i can get all the main ones

Would I pay for "access", I guess it would depend on the cost. Modelling is a hobby for me and I have a limited budget for it. So I would have to weigh the cost of internet access to lets say the price of a new kit, or maybe accessory.

Just my humble two Canadian cents

Darryl

I think the 'net is mutually supportive of the hobby in general but is also supportive/complimentary to print media such as books and magazines because the means of content delivery is different. Magazine articles and reference books will always have a place just for their portability and ease of access vs. all electronic content, although similar content delivered electronically is likely to take on a larger role over time.

As far as the number of modellers who use the 'net vs. those who don't, I know of many across the whole spectrum of phobia/emrace of the technology and it doesn't always break down along generational lines as you might expect. Some of the most agile technology users on the 'net today are older but increasingly I think the overall accessibility of the 'net for everyday things will broaden the use and appeal. I know in my particular case I've learned far more from using the 'net in relation to the hobby than I ever would otherwise simply because it not only provides an "instant access" to current knowledge it also provides the same to some pretty impressive archived experience and knowledge depending. Just can't get that from shows and books in many cases in the same short space of time IMHO.

In exactly the same boat, I only begun building kits a couple of years ago so i cant really begin to imagine it with out the net as a resource.

redleg

A few years ago I was persuaded to get my "lappy " . ...was costing me a fortune in inks and paper for Jnr as he was feeding me pics off his "box of tricks" and so in I jumped
In the past couple of years I have now got a collection of pics (75,000
+ )of most fthe Recovery and Engineer vehicles out there and what I have taken over the years in the "MOB"....this woud not have been even a starter without my "lappy"

Quite a few of my weird beasties would never have seen the point of my scalpel without the contacts I have been privileged to make in ... U K --Norway -Holland --Germany --Chile --U S A -N Zealand -Australia --South Africa -Central Europe-- the Middle East and Far East (phew!! and more)--thanks to Armorama

Magazines ..I don't buy often as they really don't cover my area a lot --in fact the only one I get regularly is from S Africa ---ok --Scotsman --"short arms --deep pockets " :-) :-) ...but I cant justify the costs of X X GBP for 3-4 mags per month

My "library " of articles runs into 30 binders (pages extracted--ready use) and lots of early mags ..and again is specialized ---quite a few mags have repeated articles over the years(showing my age now)... I'm still grateful that the mags I did get were then available , and the books I bought ,when that was the only way to glean info ...bought a few since
.
I know of no one in my circle of modellers who is not "ON-LINE"now ...and as far as I can see magazines are still being bought ..(I sneek a peek at my club )..by quite a few --even heard that some are hard to find on the shelf every month ..so it must still be viable for the publishers, and long may it be so for all out there

It would be a sad day to loose the "WRITTEN WORD"
aye
BARV
(GOSMG)

I like the web because it facilitates my research. Other than that, I agree with other posts -- it is a distractor from the hobby of building models.

The web will never, for me, replace the printed media. I subscribe to a half dozen model magazines and will continue to do so. I spend a great deal of time seeking old/rare books in the web book stores and buying them. That information will probably never make it online.

Because I do not live in a modelling community, my sole human contact is a monthly club meeting 3 hours drive away or email among club members. Given that, online sites, such as Armorama, provide a community so I'm not just another hermit.

Now, I voluntarily support Armorama with an A-Guard membership. But if sites that I frequent start requiring paid subscriptions, I will no doubt move on to another site, or eventually just stop. After all it is a distraction, and I'm not getting any younger, so I can use my time to model, or go read a book.

As to 'jazzy, high visual content' -- it can go away any old time. Too many sites have too much flash & glitz, too many smilie caharacters, too many signature blocks, and too many colors & blocks & things ... Simple is good, and some of my favorite sites are the plainest because they place information first ...

It also seems to me that the cost of running a website is proportional to the desire to make the website a major player. It also seems that many of the longer living plainer sites are comfortable where they are and keep costs low .... Hmmmm ...

John
the dinosaur ...

I recently returned to modeling and recently discovered the internet as a resource for it. In my past life as a modeler I bought magazines and lived for them, the pics and tips were great.

Now, the information and pics available on the internet are far superior to what is provided in current mags. Each time I go to the model store I look at the mags, and now, I rarely buy one since I know that there is much better stuff on the same subjects on the net.

I do buy all my kits at the store, and not online, but I think that will change as I progress as a modeler.

On the flip side of this, I did find a magazine called WWII History and I am enjoying it greatly for the in-depth articles on campaigns and subjects during that war. Also, the History Channel and the Military Channel have been inspirational.

I personally would not actually know very many modelers if it weren't for the internet; with my 'day job' and my other recreational interests I just wouldn't have the time to get to know or hang out with too many of them. So I can't honestly answer the primary question here of 'how many modeler's you know' who DON'T use the net.

My opinion on the subject is that while I use the internet a great deal for research and questions, I find print media to still be a very vital part of my hobby background. I simply cannot afford to buy every single publication with a few pages or so that I may find I really need [example: last month's issue of i-forget-what-mag that had a decent article on the SAAB A/S 32....but had a sticker of over $11!!! and was the only useful to me article in it]. Print media holds the caveat of being there at anytime to be gone over and over for reference and inspiration, no need to fire up a computer. But the internet holds the advantage of putting me in touch with other people who may already have something they can share with me and vice versa, without widening the hole in my wallet so to speak....But I'd say 75% of the help I receive in this way devolves back to those people scanning or copying print articles for me. In the end I think the two mediums are mutual to each other.

Well Jim, Im kind of in the same boat. The 'net is my major contact point. Its really the only place I can talk to people with the same modelling interests. As such, I don't really know anyone who needs the net to model, or doesnt. I don't really know anyone lol.

As for importance....well magazines are still important, and will probably continue to be. Modelling was a hobby before the internet, and would continue to exist without it, although maybe not with the same popularity from younger generations.

That said, the net is growing quickly. Before I found the big A here, I looked at the magazines and found them useful. Now I come here to read the features and forums which helps a lot. Im on a student budget and need my money for models and paints, having a free resource like this is amazing. I can get referances and advice from people all around the world. The net also lets me get more from my money by ordering from cheaper sites like LuckyModel, rather than the sometimes rediculous prices at my LHS (it has no competition really, so it can charge whatever it wants).

I guess what Im saying is that like most things, it comes down to the individual person. SOme people couldn't do it without this kind of wealth of information right at their figertips Im sure, while other could (and still do) survive just on magazines and books.

I modeled for 40 years without the net. Most of my info I picked up from books, magazines, and going to hobby shows. I discovered the net in the late 1990's and initialy just used it to copy pictures of other guys work to use as an aid to improve my own. I stumbled onto Armorama as I was looking for 2 OOP kits and someone suggested I try here. Well I found those kits and looking over the forums started answering a few questions. Of course this led to me asking them.

I would credit the web with this. A quick place to find answers to questions, a good place to meet feoow hobbiests, and for me , the place to go to find out about impending kits or if old ones are worth picking up.

No, I do not think the web will replace the magazines. There are just too many folks out there who are casual model builders and might pick up an occasional magazine and never use the web

I would say that the Internet has, for the large part, become more and more critical to our hobby. It is a cheap alternative to print. Granted, the Internet is an ocean of information, none of it very deep. However, there are enough deep points that those truly willing to expand on their hobby can do so. In that sense, it has raised the hobby from the lone guy working with no outside contact, down in his basement.

Will it replace print...perhaps. Right now, the presentation format of Internet sites does not even come close to rivaling that of some of the better magazines, IMO.

Personally, I don't know a single modeler that does not go on the net with his hobby, but then again I am of the internet generation, and I know that it is a resource worth exploring. Most of the older guys I see don't even know how to turn on a computer, nevermind surf forums. Having said that, I did consider that printed medium as far as modeling goes may be a dying breed, going with the age group that is most familiar with it. But I know myself, and I know that at certain key moments in information gathering, the net modeling community, with its thousands of contributors has not been hearly as helpful as a well-written and photographed article. For me, this experience has mostly been in regards to techniques. Again, I bring back the point that presentation counts, and a short paragraph in reply is hardly as descriptive as a multi-page article.

As a resource-gathering tool, the internet is great. This is where the multitudes of users come to an advantage.

I do not really believe that the printed medium is going anywhere...not for a while...

Now THAT is a quote i'm going to use in the future....