I’m sitting here watching Fox News and hear the correspondent talk about the conflict in the Middle East. Several times he refers to Israel’s “M109 Howitzer cannon gun”. He stated that the M109 is “mobile and can move from place to place”. I’ll bet it can also maneuver to many positions. Finally, he mentioned that the gun could fire as far as “twenty-five miles per hour”.
Am I being too critical of this guy, or do you think combat involvement might have addled his otherwise fine reporting skills?
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Accuracy in the News Media
CannonCocker
Member Since: July 23, 2004
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Posted: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 - 08:10 AM UTC
markm
Member Since: September 11, 2005
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Posted: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 - 08:15 AM UTC
Too critical, no way. These people usually get a lot of things wrong when it comes to technical issues. I used to have to deal with it all the time when I was in law enforcement. I cant remember how many times I was carrying a "Glock semi-automatic revolver or a semi automatic sub machine gun" :-) :-)
GSPatton
Member Since: September 04, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 - 08:39 AM UTC
The "talking head" in today's drive by media are as dumb as rock when it comes to anything military. When Zarqawi was taken out my local paper showed flames coming from the rear of the laser guided BOMBS used to blow up his rat shack.
bydand
Member Since: April 19, 2004
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Posted: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 - 05:54 PM UTC
hey, It's not only 'drive by' when I appeared in the paragon of accurate reporting, the South China Morning Post, in the 1980's they managed to get ten things wrong in a two paragraph article, to the extent that all of the other people who were there were trying to work out who had said what to whome and if they were there in the first place, and this 'reporter' was there, or at least he claimed to be :-)
BTW he's now working in Australia, perhaps there's a reason for this :-)
Cheers
Craig
BTW he's now working in Australia, perhaps there's a reason for this :-)
Cheers
Craig
redneck
Member Since: June 06, 2005
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Posted: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 - 06:20 PM UTC
I’ve also heard them call the M109 a “tank”
I think we’re being to critical but I wish they would try to figure out more about what they’re talking about.
I think we’re being to critical but I wish they would try to figure out more about what they’re talking about.
AJLaFleche
Member Since: May 05, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 - 06:45 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I’ve also heard them call the M109 a “tank”
I think we’re being to critical but I wish they would try to figure out more about what they’re talking about.
To the general public, anything with tracks and a gun is a tank.
markm
Member Since: September 11, 2005
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Posted: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 - 06:48 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI’ve also heard them call the M109 a “tank”
I think we’re being to critical but I wish they would try to figure out more about what they’re talking about.
To the general public, anything with tracks and a gun is a tank.
Ah hell, we had an old armored car for SWAT raids that they called a tank several times.
spooky6
Member Since: May 05, 2005
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Posted: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 - 10:30 PM UTC
Back home in Sri Lanka, newspapers would routinely refer to 6x6 Saracens and Saladins as tanks.
Last year, SLAF UAVs photographed a terrorist airstrip next to a lake. It was the dry season, and the lake bed was almost totally dry and was roughly rectangular, measuring out at about 25km long. The airstrip was about 600m or so. The Sunday Times defence correspondent (who is also a consultant for the BBC and CNN) wrote a full page expose and circled the lake in the aerial pix. This went on for months with no one correcting it. Even other newspapers used the same pic and graphic.
In the '80s, a BBC piece on the war in SL showed footage of Afghan Mujahideen ambushing a Soviet column in a rocky ravine. Sri Lanka is a tropical country similar in terrain to southern India, and its people look nothing like Afghans, never mind Russians!
Last year, SLAF UAVs photographed a terrorist airstrip next to a lake. It was the dry season, and the lake bed was almost totally dry and was roughly rectangular, measuring out at about 25km long. The airstrip was about 600m or so. The Sunday Times defence correspondent (who is also a consultant for the BBC and CNN) wrote a full page expose and circled the lake in the aerial pix. This went on for months with no one correcting it. Even other newspapers used the same pic and graphic.
In the '80s, a BBC piece on the war in SL showed footage of Afghan Mujahideen ambushing a Soviet column in a rocky ravine. Sri Lanka is a tropical country similar in terrain to southern India, and its people look nothing like Afghans, never mind Russians!
Henk
Member Since: August 07, 2004
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Posted: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 - 10:52 PM UTC
I think it will take some though to beat John Simpson' (BBC News) 'liberating' of Kabul... :-)
Cheers
Henk
Cheers
Henk
markm
Member Since: September 11, 2005
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Posted: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 - 10:57 PM UTC
When we would have to give an interview or have the press tag along on one of our details we would actually take bets on how bad they would screw it up :-)
To give proper credit though, we did have one particular reporter who took the time to ask questions and make proper quotes. He was invited several times to go with us on details. Heck we even dressed him up in camo for his live report from a very large marijuana garden we had just hit. Hardest part was keeping his enthusiastic cameraman from filming our faces.
To give proper credit though, we did have one particular reporter who took the time to ask questions and make proper quotes. He was invited several times to go with us on details. Heck we even dressed him up in camo for his live report from a very large marijuana garden we had just hit. Hardest part was keeping his enthusiastic cameraman from filming our faces.
Removed by original poster on 07/20/06 - 01:29:34 (GMT).
Murdo
Member Since: May 25, 2005
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Posted: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 - 11:31 PM UTC
One of my major irritations is when I hear of people refering to the "British Royal Army".
We (the royal we) have the Royal Navy and the Royal Air Force but there is no Royal Army. It's called the "British Army".
A classic example from Wikipedia:
"Caption: "A Royal Army (British) Spartan Armoured (Armored) Personnel Carrier (APC), with IFOR markings, is parked in the 22nd Engineer Regiment and 1st The Queen's Dragoon Guards convoy staging area on the dock in Spilt, Croatia. Behind the Spartan are three Royal Army (British) Challenger 1 Main Battle Tanks (MBT)."
We (the royal we) have the Royal Navy and the Royal Air Force but there is no Royal Army. It's called the "British Army".
A classic example from Wikipedia:
"Caption: "A Royal Army (British) Spartan Armoured (Armored) Personnel Carrier (APC), with IFOR markings, is parked in the 22nd Engineer Regiment and 1st The Queen's Dragoon Guards convoy staging area on the dock in Spilt, Croatia. Behind the Spartan are three Royal Army (British) Challenger 1 Main Battle Tanks (MBT)."
grimreaper
Member Since: April 11, 2005
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Posted: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 01:58 AM UTC
Accuracy and News Media
Isn't that an "oxymoron" ?
Isn't that an "oxymoron" ?
Savage
Member Since: June 04, 2003
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Posted: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 02:28 AM UTC
Gary's got it! Accuracy and News Media are mutually exclusive concepts.
I worked in a small town newspaper for a bit and an old reporter told me: “First rule of journalism: Never let the truth stand in the way of a good story!”
Ever notice that reporters refer to their ‘pieces of writing’ as stories and not articles?
I worked in a small town newspaper for a bit and an old reporter told me: “First rule of journalism: Never let the truth stand in the way of a good story!”
Ever notice that reporters refer to their ‘pieces of writing’ as stories and not articles?
thathaway3
Member Since: September 10, 2004
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Posted: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 02:33 AM UTC
I for one don't consider that being too critical. This guy is supposed to be a PROFESSIONAL, and he's covering the military. It's his JOB to get that right.
While it may seem trivial or unimportant, and likely not even noticed by the vast majority of viewers, in my mind it's inexcusable.
To me it's no different than if a sports reporter talked about the number of points a baseball team scored in a game, or stating that a player kicked a touchdown.
Of course the average person on the street makes the same sort of mistakes all the time. Anybody out there enter their PIN number into an ATM machine to take money out of their IRA account?
Tom
While it may seem trivial or unimportant, and likely not even noticed by the vast majority of viewers, in my mind it's inexcusable.
To me it's no different than if a sports reporter talked about the number of points a baseball team scored in a game, or stating that a player kicked a touchdown.
Of course the average person on the street makes the same sort of mistakes all the time. Anybody out there enter their PIN number into an ATM machine to take money out of their IRA account?
Tom
cheyenne
Member Since: January 05, 2005
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Posted: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 03:17 AM UTC
Everyone just learned a valuable lesson [ myself included ], when it comes to history [ or any reiteration of any subject ] there is, " my take " on something, " his take " and " the truth".
Everyone should remember this when arguing any point. Never say never and always keep an open mind.
Like Muldar said, " the truth is out there ".
Unfortunately media is politically driven, why would I think that anything has changed since the begining of recorded history.
And todays news is tomorrows history.
Cheyenne
Everyone should remember this when arguing any point. Never say never and always keep an open mind.
Like Muldar said, " the truth is out there ".
Unfortunately media is politically driven, why would I think that anything has changed since the begining of recorded history.
And todays news is tomorrows history.
Cheyenne
Clanky44
Member Since: September 15, 2005
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Posted: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 03:51 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Everyone should remember this when arguing any point. Never say never and always keep an open mind.
Like Muldar said, " the truth is out there ".
Unfortunately media is politically driven, why would I think that anything has changed since the begining of recorded history.
Cheyenne
Well said,... everytime I pick up a newspaper, I remind myself of their political affiliations, If I want the truth, I have to read at least two papers and decide for myself where the middle ground is..... unfortunately, I seldom have the time to read even one!Frank
keenan
Member Since: October 16, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 06:34 AM UTC
Well played Frank. Too many people get their news from one source. People need to get out more, so to speak.
Shaun
Shaun
Zacman
Member Since: January 27, 2006
entire network: 210 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 10:48 AM UTC
On some of the more commercial News in Australia, they do it all the time, some times they talk about "News just to hand" and they tack in some old footage they have laying around. Look at who owns most major news around the world, it's no wonder!
GSPatton
Member Since: September 04, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 11:06 AM UTC
If the media existing today - was in place during WWII - most of us would speaking German and the rest Japanese.
They are a disgusting pack of blood sucking leeches who would sell the country down the river just to make the morning headlines.
They are a disgusting pack of blood sucking leeches who would sell the country down the river just to make the morning headlines.
spooky6
Member Since: May 05, 2005
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Posted: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 01:11 PM UTC
I'd blame the editors and fact-checkers rather thn the journalists. Given the fact that so many books by serving and former military personnel get even weapon designations, nomenclature and other military details wrong, what can you expect from civilian journalists? The editors, however, should be correcting these mistakes.
Fitz
Member Since: July 11, 2006
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Posted: Friday, July 21, 2006 - 09:47 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I'd blame the editors and fact-checkers rather thn the journalists. Given the fact that so many books by serving and former military personnel get even weapon designations, nomenclature and other military details wrong, what can you expect from civilian journalists? The editors, however, should be correcting these mistakes.
Thank you. You are absolutely correct. The experts who write about military stuff for a living get it wrong on a regular basis. For example, I've got a book by Ian Hogg (one of his last before he died so maybe he wasn't all there when he wrote it) that is full of obvious errors! Since the average journalist has enough to do without carrying that enormous volume of Jane's Armour and Artillery with them wherever they go I think it is fair to forgive minor discrepancies that have no bearing on the reporting of the actual story. After all, while that journalist may be reporting on an armed conflict this week, next week maybe they are covering a shark attack somewhere else. Do they have to become instant shark experts too? Or maybe they end up doing a human interest story on horses. Do they have to commit to memory ever breed of horse too? I have no expectation that a journalists should be experts on modern military hardware just because they get assigned to a story in a combat zone.
spooky6
Member Since: May 05, 2005
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Posted: Friday, July 21, 2006 - 03:02 PM UTC
What you're saying is partly true, Mark, but many of these correspondents claim to be experts, and are often termed 'defense corrsespondents' or 'war correspondents' and specialize in that area. I don't expect them to necessarily know the diference between a .50-cal and a .30-cal, but calling an armoured car a tank, or transport chopper a gunship is just silly. Sort of like calling a horse a pony or a shark a whale. Mistaking a lake for an airstrip is more than just getting the details wrong.
Their editors should edit, but the journalists should learn.
Their editors should edit, but the journalists should learn.
cheyenne
Member Since: January 05, 2005
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Posted: Friday, July 21, 2006 - 03:22 PM UTC
Mark, what David is saying is what I mean about recorded history. Getting it as right as possible, is very important.
Hidious, giant monsters, with horned heads invaded our village.
A viking raid.
I'ts when the little things are misrepresented that later in history a 50 cal. machine gun turns into a bazooka.
This is also where stereotypes about people and races are fostered, little indiscrepencies turn out to be very harmful in the future.
2- cents
Cheyenne
Hidious, giant monsters, with horned heads invaded our village.
A viking raid.
I'ts when the little things are misrepresented that later in history a 50 cal. machine gun turns into a bazooka.
This is also where stereotypes about people and races are fostered, little indiscrepencies turn out to be very harmful in the future.
2- cents
Cheyenne
Fitz
Member Since: July 11, 2006
entire network: 439 Posts
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Posted: Friday, July 21, 2006 - 05:31 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Mark, what David is saying is what I mean about recorded history. Getting it as right as possible, is very important.
Hidious, giant monsters, with horned heads invaded our village.
A viking raid.
I'ts when the little things are misrepresented that later in history a 50 cal. machine gun turns into a bazooka.
This is also where stereotypes about people and races are fostered, little indiscrepencies turn out to be very harmful in the future.
2- cents
Cheyenne
Mis-identifying a M-109 self-propelled howitzer as a tank doesn't harm anyone. The folks on the recieving end probably don't know the difference either!
And because someone is a war correspondent does not in any way infer they are a military equipment expert. Those are not the same thing. These are people who report on conflicts, not tools.
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