Howdy All,

While driving across the country on my way to sunny Florida I began reading a book on OIF that I picked up in the discount bin at Barnes & Noble before I left, it's called 'Generation Kill'....interesting book, but apart from the entertaining read, it brought up this multi-part question in my mind...

First, did anyone in either Desert Storm, or OIF bring along any 'personal' weapons of choice, either overtly or covertly to assist them in their assigned mission?
And, second, did anyone in either Iraq conflict possibly 'liberate' a discarded weapon and add it to their personal weapons load-out?

Part of the reason I ask is because {without going into detail, or potentially starting a 'this weapon is better than that weapon' discussion} for example, the AK is a stoutly usable weapon and since the standard Iraqi practice was to leave the vast majority of their ammo behind, one would theoritically never run out of ammo ;-)
Also, never being a big fan of the K-Bar, I had my own personal knife with me at all times {a hunting knife made by I think a now defunct company called PUMA}. And I have heard reports that some of the British soldiers opted to carry 'Khukuri's' instead of their standard issue knifes.

Any input ?

tia

Tread.

EDIT: My apologies, I originally placed this query in the 'Junk Drawer' Forum, {and our good Roderick was kind enough to reply ;-) } but it wasn't showing up on the regular 'Latest Posts' {my fault I'm sure} so I moved it here to maybe get some replies.....my apologies for the duel posts. :-)

Tread,

Moved it to Soldier Stories.... seems the best fir for it as it's more of a Soldiers "historical" question.

Personally out of all the Fixed blades I own.... I love my Kabar the most..... but then I'm Partial cause they're made in town.......... Now... the SF can be allowed to carry whatever they find... If I were to be in a fire fight I'd use whatever i could to defend myself even if it's a captured weapon....... As far as bringing weapons... it could be kinda difficult to get some types of Ammo (depending)

Think I'd go with the kukri as an all-round weapon. Not everyone has to knife sentries silently, right? But its utilitarian use is a bit limited. You'll still need that Leatherman or Swiss Army knife along.

I have a relative who is a sniper in the army he has a personal rifle that he takes with him on deployment - it has been to Afganistan and Iraq

Snipers I can understand... but then the Military "gives" them the rifle as well... It's not pulled out of Stocks....
It's assigned to them... IIRC.... But I could also see them Maintaing a Personal one as well...... Completely custom and all that fun stuff.

Jack Coughlin claims in his autobiography that US snipers almost never have 'personal' rifles. They are issued as needed, he claims.

That's nice for Jack

Gordon,

It does happen but in my experience is very uncommon.

Ive never seen anyone below Sgt carry one outside of a Gurkha regiment.

The only fighting knife carried by the vast majority of infantry soldiers is the standard bayonet.

Personal weapons, yep. Mostly I would bet to be pistols as personal weapons, especially MPs, NG and Reserve troops who were police officers in civilian life. Some units use pistols that are not necessarily personal, but are not standard either. About 2004, there were numerous stories of armor crews pushed to patrol who were carrying AKs of all kinds because they didn't have any weapons issued to them other than their pistols as well as many were issued only so much ammo, while getting ammo for an AK is rather easy in Iraq.

Also, as rather horrible (in quality) book I threw down about a CNN reporter embedded with the 7th Cav, they didn't have any weapons (as regulations stated that that reporters were not to be armed - an overlooked rule as you've probably read by now), but there was nothing in the rules that said the personal guards that protected and drove the embedded reporters around couldn't be armed, and initially this guy wasn't (kind of funny when you think about it, a personal guard, not armed, following an invasion force with the mission to guard the reporters from an enemy with a full [auto-censored]nal of weapons...go figure). Anyway, after a close call, they snagged a pair of AKMS's from a couple of Soldiers who overlooked the whole thing. You've probably read that Captain America used an AK too.

By the way, if you are reading Generation Kill, Lt. Fick actually wrote a book of his own. I REALLY recommend it. Generation Kill reads more like an enlisted soldier. Fick's book, One Bullet Away, reads...well like an officer wrote it. He goes through the basic history of his life, his OCS training and first platoon assignment, going to Afghanistan (something that is covered in about a sentence in Generation Kill), and his time in Iraq. The Iraqi section focuses mostly on his platoon rather than the whole battalion and not nearly as much on Colbert's humvee. There is a really good insight into what it takes to be a platoon leader, and not just in combat.

Jeff

From my time we were always told that if we brought personal weapons OR AMMO we would be court marshalled. As far as a sniper with a personal weapon USED IN THE LINE OF DUTY near unheard of and especially now. I know personally and maintain contact with several Marine Corps Scout Snipers, no way they would use a personal rifle.

Think of it this way; A specially built rifle designed for precision marksmanship topped with a several thousand dollar scope (often times due to U.S. gun laws not available to average Americans) which you have shot literally thousands of times, in all conditions, accurate to at maximum of a couple of inches at 500+ yards...

VS.

Let's say Remington Model 700 bought from a local Wal-Mart with a couple hundred dollar scope, in a caliber that you probaly can't get in a combat zone, and not nearly as accurate as your issue weapon. All of your fellow snipers wondering what the hell you are doing?

Just some observations...

There was a story about a local company here that made tomahawks Yes I said tomahawks!!! It had all sorts of bell and whistles for a tomahawk like nail remover, shovel, hammer and a bunch of other things in addition to the blade. In the story it was saying that they had to go overtime to keep up for demand by military soldiers going to Iraq. Apparently the soldiers like the weight of the tomahawk as opposed to their combat knife in hand to hand plus it had a bunch of other purposes.

Hope that helped

That is really interesting, Alan. I had never heard of Soldiers using them. I wonder if the 2ID had a large number of them.

I forgot to mention that it isn't just weapons, but sights and other accessories. What I don't know is if these are bought with a Company or Battalion's budget of if they are personal. But if I recall, only the M68 Aimpoint CCO and the Trijcon ACOG are standard sights. But I've seen soldiers with Leupold Close-Quarters and distant scopes, EOTech sights, you name it.

Different tactical grips, tactical lights, laser pointers (other than the PEQ), are also being seen. It is almost like a SWAT unit has invaded Iraq.

Jeff

They can Personalize thier Webgear / MOLLE gear... so What's to stop them from Buying a different Scope/ Red dot or Whatever?

Well thats the question. Nothing can stop a Soldier from buying a scope I guess, of course a unit commander can stop them from installing it and deploying it.

Jeff

And I think they "way" things are going..... There seems to be a little more personal freedom. It's Ultimately up to the CO....... But I'd say "If it helps them to do thier Job better / More effectively let them do what they need to do.

I don't think I've heard of too many hand to hand encounters in Iraq or Afghanistan where soldiers have used tomahwks as weapons. My guess is that the ever-inventive GI has found a number of uses as a tool to benefit his personal comfort level by building or moving things using the blade, prybar or nail remover or some other gadget on the tomahawk. You know those silly soldiers. They can scratch build anything if it increases firepower, protection or comfort!!!

True. But with logistics as they are, sometimes it can be hard to support equipment that isn't in the supply chain. Batteries are a big concern as is replacement parts and any alterations to the weapons. One of the great things about the ACOG is that it doesn't require batteries. Luckily most of these other optics and equipment were designed with the logistics in mind.

BTW, Your argument is being argued right now with respect to new ballistic vests and claims that they are better than the current IBAs.



As for the Tomahawks, I would imagine like you said that they are being used in a hatchet sort of way.

Jeff

If I changed my scope / Sight and it needed Batt's I'd make sure i supplied my own

Enough for, say, 12 months in Iraq? If they're AA, thats no problem. But if they are the tiny one, I would think they'd be a little harder to come by.

Gordon, sorry to take this off target. Feel free to bring us back if you see fit.

Jeff

The military is now issuing reddots for rifles. The only sniper rifle I saw over seas was a m14 w/ a pretty decent scope on it. As far as pistols and personnel rifles and pistols thats a no-go in theater. Highly anal about weapon accountability.

The nicest knife I used to carry was a West German combat knife which I modified so that there was intertwined paracord over the hilt so it couldn't be dropped. The balance on it was beautiful. I carried a boot knife for a while but my platoon commander got a bit upset about it as he said it was too aggressive (??????????). My ace in the pack was the wire saw which I hid behind the zip in my SAS smock (no I was never in special forces but normal infantry issue kit was s**te as it was like a sponge so it was personal purchase). Two way zip therefore two grenade rings on the zip ends, Ideal E&E kit.. Favourite weapon? Got to be the L1A1 SLR. Reliable, accurate and sticks someone on their [auto-censored] and they won't get up. Ever! My baby was 132331 and I miss her everyday. After all that time together and now the odds are she's dirty, rusty and neglected by someone in the third world. Truly breaks my heart. My girlfriend at the time said I cared more about my rifle than her and to be quite honest...she was right. The SA 80? Was never impressed. I broke mine on the day I was given it. Defnitely not soldier proof. Lovely on a range if the mags didn't fall to bits but in the field? I'd sooner have had a big stick with nails in it. We said they should have given us M16's.

In the US Army, a personal firearm (called a POW or Privately Owned Weapon) would not be allowed to be deployed. Once troops are readied for deployment or redeployment, they get a shakedown inspection that looks for contraband (alcohol, ammo, porn, weapons, etc.). After the shakedown inspection, the troops are placed in a sterile area where they can't leave prior to embarking on the aircraft. This is usually the terminal area at an Army Airfield or perhaps the gym in the brigade or battalion area. They either board directly onto the plane (if at the terminal) or are then boarded onto buses and transported to the airport/airfield.

No chance to try to sneak anything into your gear. A high-speed Rambo knife may be allowed, but normally rules regarding knives are put out during the prep for deployment.

On the odd chance that you are able to sneak a POW into theater, the redeployment shakedown is normally more thorough. The custom MPs are looking for anyone trying to sneak unauthorized war trophies, like any weapons, back into the United States. Your POW will be confiscated at that point and you will face either administrative disciplinary action or court-martial depending on the command's policy.

We were not allowed a POW in my unit, anyone who rated an M9 also got an M4 with an ACOG (Now called an RCO for Rifle Combat Optic). We also got a Surefire weaponlight and could get crimson trace laser grips for our M9's in-country. I carried my Kabar and a Gerber multitool the whole time I was in Fallujah. With the amount of protective gear we were saddled down with E-SAPI, Side SAPI's you avoided carrying anything more than what you needed because your fighting load weighed in between 60 to 70 pounds. Docs and machine gunners humped even more weight, even if there weren't a prohibition against POWs I think most guys would have left them behind just to cut down on the wieght they were carrying.

A mate of mine got caught bringing a folding stock AK back from Gulf Wars Pt 1 hidden inside bridging equipment after it had finished. That was the last time I saw him as he went AWOL as soon as he got back to the UK. Where he is I do not know but I bet he's still p****d about his AK :-)

When i was in the infantry, i was issued a standard M-7 which comes with the M-16, and a swis army "jack knife" Being honest, the only time i draw the M-7 from the scabard is when i need to pry open the handguard of the rifle. Most of the cutting, modding and misc stuff are all done by my tiny jack knife.