Today, officially marks the first day that the United States Marine Corps joins the U.S. Special operations command, pretty big if you ask me. My dad has a friend whose son is a Marine, and while he was at Camp Lejune, he and I think it was half of his platoon (the half with the highest ASVAB, PFT etc...) were hand selected to go to the USMC sniper school to support this switch to MARSOC.
Story here http://usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/main5/64D9C69C91287BD88525711E007467CE?opendocument
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USMC officially joins USSOCOM
Mech-Maniac
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Posted: Sunday, February 26, 2006 - 12:01 AM UTC
LogansDad
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Posted: Sunday, February 26, 2006 - 10:13 AM UTC
I was a bit surprised when I saw this , Shain. While I was in(',86-'91) then Commandant Al Gray( hell of a marine, personal pal of Chesty Puller) initiated a directive that all deployable Expeditionary Units[MEU's] become SOC qualified. This was followed by a period of intensive training in which every member of the unit was qualled(not just fam'ed) in all manner of Special Ops procedures. We were assigned SEAL, ANGLiCo, & Green Beret qualified instructors & schoolled in such nifty disciplines as (but not limited to): SPIE insertion/extraction, Fast rope insertion, Building entry/clearing, MOUT, LRRP, ANPVS assault driving, LR Sniper spotting, Assault climbers course, Improvised explosives creation/detection/clearing, Cross discipline& Warsaw Pact equipment eval/familiarization, Fastboat & Zodiac beach assualt/covert insertion, Helo Casting(which wrecked my right knee pretty badly...), SERE, and a few others that I'm foggy on or not at liberty to mention. Did this turn every Jughead in the BN into Rambo? Nope. However, it did put a definite edge on units already considered Elite by many. And the evaluation of the instructors was final- If you didn't pass, you didn't deploy. Period.
This new Policy smacks of further "politicization" of our services, reminiscent of the Carter Administration's 'Force Intergration Policy', which led to the disastrous Desert One operation. It is my sincere hope that SOMEONE has learned that C&C must be absolute in these cases, and that force structure is clearly defined with no political infighting causing deadly SNAFU's that will cost the life of the finest of our forces.
I'll be paying close attention to the evolution of this multi-headed beastie in the months & years to come. Also, I'd be interested in some input from fellow Gyrenes undergoing this intergration, & would be curious to find out what happened to Commandant Gray's MEU/SOC Program.
Semper Fi- RobH(Fmr CPL, USMC NBCD, 1/8)
This new Policy smacks of further "politicization" of our services, reminiscent of the Carter Administration's 'Force Intergration Policy', which led to the disastrous Desert One operation. It is my sincere hope that SOMEONE has learned that C&C must be absolute in these cases, and that force structure is clearly defined with no political infighting causing deadly SNAFU's that will cost the life of the finest of our forces.
I'll be paying close attention to the evolution of this multi-headed beastie in the months & years to come. Also, I'd be interested in some input from fellow Gyrenes undergoing this intergration, & would be curious to find out what happened to Commandant Gray's MEU/SOC Program.
Semper Fi- RobH(Fmr CPL, USMC NBCD, 1/8)
hellbent11
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Posted: Monday, February 27, 2006 - 11:14 AM UTC
It is interesting. In my time (99-03) I knew several Marines involved in giving "assistance" to SOCOM. Most were helo crews, scout-snipers, and combat engineers. It is interesting to see it more "Formal" now. The MEU's are still going strong but friends still in the Corps tell me that they are loosing thier edge a bit due to short intervals between deployments and strained budgets. 
thathaway3
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Posted: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 12:19 AM UTC
I had to read through the article twice to finally realize this isn't what I orignally thought. The Marines are simply creating a subordinate command within the Marine Corps, which will stand up Marine units which will then be operationally part of SOCOM. This really isn't too different than what the other services have been doing for some time, that is having specific units within that service (like the US Special Forces) which are directed Operationaly by SOCOM, rather than by one of the other Unified Commands, such as EUCOM (European Command).
What IS different, is that rather than just sending "any" unit from the Marines, which would require special training for everyone in the unit as Bob mentioned, this appears to establish a more "permanent" organization within the Marine Corps, whose sole function is to have Special Ops capable units maintained all the time.
While it has ALWAYS been a complaint within the Army that it isn't "right" to have "elite" units such as the Special Forces, the Ranger Regiment, and the 82nd Airborne, the simple fact is, you NEED to have units with these qualifications and it is impractical to require and maintain that level of capability throughout your entire Force. Even if you are the USMC, which is as good as they come.
I'm actually wondering why this concept took so long, as it seems to be a smarter way to accomplish the INTENT of what GEN Gray was advocating, that is, to have an MEU sized component available for SOCOM use.
Tom
What IS different, is that rather than just sending "any" unit from the Marines, which would require special training for everyone in the unit as Bob mentioned, this appears to establish a more "permanent" organization within the Marine Corps, whose sole function is to have Special Ops capable units maintained all the time.
While it has ALWAYS been a complaint within the Army that it isn't "right" to have "elite" units such as the Special Forces, the Ranger Regiment, and the 82nd Airborne, the simple fact is, you NEED to have units with these qualifications and it is impractical to require and maintain that level of capability throughout your entire Force. Even if you are the USMC, which is as good as they come.
I'm actually wondering why this concept took so long, as it seems to be a smarter way to accomplish the INTENT of what GEN Gray was advocating, that is, to have an MEU sized component available for SOCOM use.
Tom
GunTruck
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Posted: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 03:07 AM UTC
Quoted Text
My dad has a friend whose son is a Marine, and while he was at Camp Lejune, he and I think it was half of his platoon (the half with the highest ASVAB, PFT etc...) were hand selected to go to the USMC sniper school to support this switch to MARSOC.
Not that unusual - it happened to me and a lot of members of my basic training flight in the USAF in 1986. On Graduation Day, we were pulled off the Formation Pad and told it was because of our high (top 3%) ASVAB and basic training scores that we were being diverted from the original jobs we enlisted for to go to the USAF Security Police Academy. The only consolation was that after we served our enlistment (we were all four year Airmen), we had the option to retrain into any field of choice and pick any assignment accordingly.
At first I hated the idea - but really liked it in the end. It worked for me and I extended my enlistment to take advantage of it. Best days of my life...
Gunnie
Mech-Maniac
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Posted: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 06:00 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I'm actually wondering why this concept took so long, as it seems to be a smarter way to accomplish the INTENT of what GEN Gray was advocating, that is, to have an MEU sized component available for SOCOM use.
I had been wondering this too. The first thing that came to my mind was when they disbanded the Marine Raiders of the WW2 Pacific Campaign. Someone said there was no need for an "elite with in an elite" type of unit, but not very long after that Force Recon was established.
This is pretty big for me, seeing how I'm a future Marine and going Infantry, maybe I'll end up in one of these special units?
But who knows, as my contract said "the needs of the Marine Corps come first." :-) 
thathaway3
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Posted: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 08:44 PM UTC
You know the old saying, "If the (fill in the appropriate Service) had wanted you to have a (fill in the object of your choice!), then you would have been ISSUED one." :-) :-)
Tom
Tom
spooky6
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Posted: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 10:33 PM UTC
Quoted Text
this appears to establish a more "permanent" organization within the Marine Corps, whose sole function is to have Special Ops capable units maintained all the time.Tom
This isn't new either. Marine Recon battalions have always been considered the USMC's special operations units, and have been part of the permanent structure for awhile.
phoenix-1
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Posted: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 11:41 PM UTC
So does this mean that the Marines will model after the Army/AF/Navy in terms of Spec Ops units? For example, will the Marines have their own equivalent to the Army's 160th SOAR or will they use Army/AF/Navy helos? Another question, why would USSOCOM add another branch of Spec Ops units to its list? Won't the Marine Spec Ops have the same capabilities as every other branch's Spec Ops? Or is it more about having as many tools in your toolbox as possible?
Kyle
Kyle
Mech-Maniac
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Posted: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 05:33 AM UTC
Quoted Text
So does this mean that the Marines will model after the Army/AF/Navy in terms of Spec Ops units? For example, will the Marines have their own equivalent to the Army's 160th SOAR or will they use Army/AF/Navy helos? Another question, why would USSOCOM add another branch of Spec Ops units to its list? Won't the Marine Spec Ops have the same capabilities as every other branch's Spec Ops? Or is it more about having as many tools in your toolbox as possible?
Kyle
The article provided says:
Quoted Text
The key tasks of MARSOC will be: direct action, special reconnaissance, foreign internal defense, counterterrorism, information operations, and unconventional warfare.
The 4th Expeditionary Brigade will also be used to support it in the early years of the program.
The Marine Corps has their own helicopters and the Osprey is soon to hit the battlefield, so there is another option there. If they dont use their owns, usually they are provided with support from the Navy's birds.
Austin0311
Member Since: July 19, 2005
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Posted: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 08:44 AM UTC
]
The article provided says:
I'm pretty sure that is standard SOF missions. I know that is the Army's SF mission statement. I'm glad the USMC has finally got the unit up and running. I was in from 98-02 and remember all the buzz when it is announced that the Corps would standing up a new unit. I know the Army is starting a new SOF unit that deals with asymetrical warfare...read that in an Army times about two years ago. I wish them all well...
The article provided says:
Quoted Text
The key tasks of MARSOC will be: direct action, special reconnaissance, foreign internal defense, counterterrorism, information operations, and unconventional warfare.
I'm pretty sure that is standard SOF missions. I know that is the Army's SF mission statement. I'm glad the USMC has finally got the unit up and running. I was in from 98-02 and remember all the buzz when it is announced that the Corps would standing up a new unit. I know the Army is starting a new SOF unit that deals with asymetrical warfare...read that in an Army times about two years ago. I wish them all well...
spooky6
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Posted: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 11:04 AM UTC
Quoted Text
For example, will the Marines have their own equivalent to the Army's 160th SOAR or will they use Army/AF/Navy helos?
Probably this'll be the only 'new' thing to come out of it all. Typically we'll probably see the USMC form a specialist air support squadron.
Quoted Text
Another question, why would USSOCOM add another branch of Spec Ops units to its list? Won't the Marine Spec Ops have the same capabilities as every other branch's Spec Ops? Or is it more about having as many tools in your toolbox as possible?
This is more likely a push from the bottom than the top. As more Marine generals get into key positions outside the USMC, they will push for more specialist units within the Corps so that it's less dependent on other branches of the armed forces. It's also an image thing. It's unlikely to be a push from the top, as it would be easier for USSOCOM to have one or two specialist units that can do it all, than have many, all fighting for a piece of the action. Part of the reason for the failure at Desert One.
So the US Army has its SF, Rangers, and Delta.
The US Navy has its SEAL teams and DEVGRU.
And now the USMC will have its Recon Battalions in there too.
All, arguably capable of doing anyone else's job.
This is also visible in the UK to a lesser extent. The SAS and SBS have almost identical roles, but the Royal Marines are still pushing to extend the Mountain & Arctic Warfare Cadre's role, as are the Paras with their Special Patrol Groups.
And if you think that's strange, in Sri Lanka (where the armed forces number just over 150,000), the Army's got its Commando Regiment and Special Forces Regiment (each brigade-sized), the Navy's got its SBS, the Police has its own STF, and the Air Force has just started off its Special Forces Squadron (an airmobile unit).
hellbent11
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Posted: Thursday, March 02, 2006 - 09:48 AM UTC
Quoted Text
to have an MEU sized component available for SOCOM use.
Tom
I think in this regard due to the way our armed forces constantly interact and coordinate with each other. SOCOM just wants its own MEU to go where it wants it to go. In my time MEU's were constantly training and striving to achieve the "Special Operations Capable" or "MEUSOC" status. It wasn't given out to every MEU that sailed but intead earned by meeting particlar training requirements for that capability. MEU's have always been given better training and equipment as they are considered the "tip of the spear" from a Marine Corps standpoint.
18Bravo
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Posted: Thursday, March 02, 2006 - 12:09 PM UTC
I guess they'll let anybody in these days. 
hellbent11
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Posted: Saturday, March 04, 2006 - 11:35 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I guess they'll let anybody in these days.
Sorry, missed your point. What are you referring to?
18Bravo
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Posted: Sunday, March 05, 2006 - 06:35 AM UTC
That would be the title of the thread.
hellbent11
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Posted: Monday, March 06, 2006 - 03:14 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I guess they'll let anybody in these days.
I think it is more like the Army will try and snatch any manpower from DOD that it can get to fill it's own continually declining numbers. The Marine Corps has always fiercely resisted efforts by the Army to be integrated into the Department of the Army and thus dissolved. This issue has come back time and again from the revolution until present. When the Army is running short of capabilities (personnel, equipment, supplies) they go trying to get it somewhere else to cover what they're lacking.
LemonJello
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Posted: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 04:14 PM UTC
What I've heard rumbling about this is that this gives SOCCOM a bigger pool of resources to call on, and gives a break to some units that could use one. Also, the current recon units aren't moved as a whole to MARSOC, though personnel may be pulled to fill the units being created. A lot of the current work is creating training cadres to deploy and train foreign military, among other things.
The MEUs are still going strong. I know we took pride in getting SOC qualled in 97 when I did a Med cruise. That's where I'd really like to end up next, on the staff of one of the east coast MEUs, but that suggestion may get me a death sentence from Lady LemonJello. (I'd call SWMBO the 6, but she's more like royalty in our house)
The MEUs are still going strong. I know we took pride in getting SOC qualled in 97 when I did a Med cruise. That's where I'd really like to end up next, on the staff of one of the east coast MEUs, but that suggestion may get me a death sentence from Lady LemonJello. (I'd call SWMBO the 6, but she's more like royalty in our house)
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