Steve & Steve:

OK, Britain is out of the war 1940-ish. Europe & Med are in German hands, Russia goes down. The real Festung Europa.

Given that, can FDR continue to manipulate things against the isolation/anti-war crowd, or does the US retire into it's borders ?? My previous responses assumed that FDR could/would mobve the nation toward war with Hitler -- that is a possible response, that may not be what happens.

If the US does go isolationist, and with the Brits out, then the Japanese could accelerate timetable by taking Singapore, Hong-Kong, etc (what can Aus, NZ do & why?); they focus all efforts on China, leave US alone. Greater-East-Asia-Co-Prosperity-Sphere happens. US not attacked, US doesn't attack, & Korea/VietNam are not relevant except as an internal problem for the Japanese.

Now you are left with "Europa", "Asia", "North America & some friends". and Sub-Saharan Africa & Central/South America which are really up for grabs.

20-30 years of clashing on the perimeters & pretty soon they're all good buddies, trade-wise. At least there wouldn't be a UN ...

Bottom line, the loss of Britain could dramatically impact what happens in the Pacific

John

I think Germany's big mistake wasn't the invasion of the USSR, but the moves westward which ended with the BoB. While Britain had a pact with Poland, they would have sued for a peace if they didn't see any further threat from Germany. Particularly since both the US and Britain saw communism as the real threat. But with the invasions of Belgium and France, there was no way Britain could make peace. The US would have been drawn in eventually whether Germany declared war or not. It was just a matter of time, particularly after Pearl Harbour.

If not for the move west, Hitler could have expanded east and the BoB would never have happened. Nor would the US have then been involved.

If the Germans won at Stalingrad and had taken Moscow in spite of losing the BoB, the war would have taken a lot longer for sure. Might even have ended differently with the Allies coming to terms that Russia was lost, and bargaining for western Europe.

The combinations are endless. It all depends on which events happened in tandem with other events.

But if Britain had fallen, I think we would have seen (after Africa had petered out) at best, a Communist europe by 1955, or at worst a Nazi Europe/Russia by 1950. D-Day would have been impossible without Britain as a toehold.