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Making PE
mother
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Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 03:59 PM UTC
Ok, I want to dabble into the world of making my own Photo Etch parts. I'm planning on to start small, then work my way into the more complex parts later. I just got done reading an old article in FSM, Nov 2003. He states that he used a sheet of .005 brass, drawing his plans on it using a pencil. Then tracing over the pencil with a fine point Sharpie marker, once dried he dipped the brass sheet into a dish of PCB Etchant Solution that he purchased from Radio Shack. Now this seems to be fairly easy and if it is, I only wished I’ve done it yesterday

So my question is, has anyone used this method...If so how were the results. How about a better way, or even different solutions. I'm hoping by the end of this weekend i'll have some home-made PE. So please any comments, tips and advice would be grateful.

Thanks,
Joe
archerwin
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Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 05:48 PM UTC
my undergrad is electronics and in one of our labs we are required to make our own circuits in PCB boards... basically we used the same method as the one you describe and it's fairly easy.

easy if you're making parts for 1/32 and above scale... i think it will a little bit hard for 1/48 and 1/72...

if you're want straight lines or circles, you can use engineering dry transfers.
mother
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Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 05:58 PM UTC

Quoted Text

if you're want straight lines or circles, you can use engineering dry transfers.



What is that exactly, a dry transfer of some kind. As for 1/48th, you think it won't work. Is it that the detail would be to small.

Erwin, thanks for the info.
archerwin
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Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 06:10 PM UTC
try this: http://www.emsdiasum.com/microscopy/products/photographic/graphics.aspx?mm=14

scroll down the page to see diff shapes, letters and numbers...

you can buy it in electronics shops and or school supplies store.


in 1/48, small details can still be done using the dry transfers but drawing it manually might be hard to control even if using a ruler bec the pen tip might not be narrow enough or the edges are not perfect.

in 1/72, really hard... hehehe...
mother
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Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 06:29 PM UTC
Cool, sounds simple enough. Using the dry transfers will make it easier. I'll let you know how things turn out.
Thanks
archerwin
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Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 06:32 PM UTC
thanks! pls share the results! good luck!


Quoted Text

Cool, sounds simple enough. Using the dry transfers will make it easier. I'll let you know how things turn out.
Thanks

keenan
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Posted: Friday, August 19, 2005 - 12:09 AM UTC
Joe,

I read the same article. Let me know if you have any luck finding the supplies at Radio Shack. I haven't. Mostly pushy guys trying to sell me phone contracts. Anyway, I haven't seen it.

Shaun
rv1963
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Posted: Friday, August 19, 2005 - 12:31 AM UTC
Joe i don't know if you are interested but micromark.com has a complete kit for making PE, not shore on the price.
Neo
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Posted: Friday, August 19, 2005 - 12:33 AM UTC

Quoted Text


my undergrad is electronics and in one of our labs we are required to make our own circuits in PCB boards... basically we used the same method as the one you describe and it's fairly easy.

easy if you're making parts for 1/32 and above scale... i think it will a little bit hard for 1/48 and 1/72...

if you're want straight lines or circles, you can use engineering dry transfers.



You could also use a CAD or Graphics package to draw the linework. That would give you very crisp lines.

Good Luck
N E O
matt
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Posted: Friday, August 19, 2005 - 04:17 AM UTC
Shaun,

It took me 3 RS stores to find the Etchant.

Joe,

The RS in the McKinley mall in Hamburg Had it last time i was there.


Matt
mother
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Posted: Friday, August 19, 2005 - 04:31 AM UTC
Shaun,
I just got all the supplys. Radio Shack had the PCB Etchant Solution at $3.99 a gallon. Picked up a bundle of brass sheets between .35-.60 cents each.

I'm going to start out with some simple shapes and if all goes well, I'll post results later tonight or in the morning.

One question, would anyone know of an article on how to achieve a dimensional look. Something like you would see on a aircraft panel or even a seat harness. Thanks…

EDIT: Matt found some at the RS in Lackawanna, Abbott Rd. Plaza
keenan
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Posted: Friday, August 19, 2005 - 04:57 AM UTC
Well crap. We have two RS in a town of about 20K and neither had it when I checked. I will check again.

Thanks guys.

Shaun
matt
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Posted: Friday, August 19, 2005 - 07:39 AM UTC
I wound up calling around..... They should be able to order it if they don't stock it.
mother
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Posted: Friday, August 19, 2005 - 05:16 PM UTC
As promised here are the results,

Well this is my first attempt at making PE. In the first photo you can see the piece of brass (.005) and I free hand a few designs. I then soaked it in the PCB solution, within 3 min. time the brass started to etch and the solution started to turn black. Turning the brass piece over every 5 min. to agitate the solution. I am writing this as I go along, so far it’s been ten minutes.



After 20 min. the brass is starting to dissolve , it’s thinner than a piece of paper. You can still see the black outline.



And here after 35 min. it was finished. I rinsed under cold water to stop the solution from etching any further.



From my first time I have to say that I’m pleased with the results. I’m going to do some experimenting using the markers and dry transfers. I’ll let you know how that comes out.
archerwin
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Posted: Friday, August 19, 2005 - 06:48 PM UTC
joe,
nice results! congrats... i'll try that also when i get home... i have the enchant and the copper sheet but have not tried creating my own PE yet.

thanks for sharing.
slodder
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Posted: Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 12:51 AM UTC
Very promising and very inspirering.

One question - do you draw or transfer only on ONE side of the brass? I don't quite understand how the solution does not disolve the 'back' side of the drawing?
keenan
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Posted: Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 01:08 AM UTC
Scott,

This guy puts tape on the back side to keep the echant fro eating the metal from the back side.

http://modeltech.tripod.com/etchingarticle.htm

Shaun
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Posted: Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 02:05 AM UTC
Gotcha - thanks
mother
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Posted: Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 04:24 AM UTC
Scott,
I only marked one side of the bass, didn't do anything to the back side. As for the tape in the article the only thing I can come up with is that once the brass dissolves all the pieces stay togather and not floating around.
Grumpyoldman
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Posted: Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 07:01 AM UTC
You have 2 choices, 1. is to draw a frame and attachment points to keep your parts together, (what most modelers are use to seeing) 2. is to use the tape, (ala Foto-Cut) The tape also acts as the resist preventing the etching from the back side. If you use the frame method, simply use the marker on the back side, it will stop the etching there. If you are really good, you can try a reverse drawing of the item on the back, and etch from both sides. Cuts down on the time. (this is what commercial etchers do.)

Cutting away as much excess brass, cuts down on the time needed also.

To do relief etchings you need to do it in stages. draw your item, start etching, when it reaches the point or thickness you want, remove the item, wash it in a solution of water and baking soda, to neutralize the acid,. and rinse and dry. Then you need to draw on the area you do not want etched anymore, then put back in the acid.

The sharpie method is OK, but if you really want to do much better, and top quality etchings, invest in the proper equipment. One is a good drawing program. Most of us have one already. Do your drawings much larger than the size needed, then reduce to the size needed. You end up with much sharper lines and parts. Some other stuff you'll need will be clear film to print your drawings on, (Really cheap enough) learning to print negatives, applying the proper photo resist (Comes in 2 forms- powder you mix yourself, or already mixed, and probably now days comes in a spray can and not really expensive), exposing it to light, developing it, washing off the unexposed photo resist, then etching it.

Since most home etchings are done one at a time, and really do not use an agitating bath, the etchings usually end up with ragged edges, and do not etch straight downward, or through, but more at a slight angle.

There was a small home etching kit available a few years ago, although I haven't seen it advertised lately, but a friend had one, and turned out his own photo etched parts as good as if not better than Eduard's. Came with an agitating tank and all, and only cost him about 200 bucks.

OH, the sanding we do, on photo-etched parts before gluing really isn't to rough up the surface...... although that happens also, it is to remove the photo resist on the back side of the sheet when made. Another thing is to never pour the used acid back into the original container, you'll ruin the remaining acid. You need to make a solution of baking soda and water, and mix it with the used acid to neutralize it before disposal. I'd also suggest rubber/plastic gloves, and safety glasses, and ALL GLASS or PLASTIC equipment.
Grumpyoldman
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Posted: Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 08:20 AM UTC
:-) :-) :-) Part 2 :-) :-) :-)

Found these links to help you.

Article.....
http://www.themodelmakersresource.co.uk/articles/article001.html

A simple photo resit system:
http://www.oselectronics.com/ose_p54.htm

A small at home etching kit for 100 bucks.... looks pretty good and will probably get one myself.
http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares.asp?MerchantID=RET01229&Action=Catalog&Type=Product&ID=83123
DOJO
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Posted: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 03:51 PM UTC
WOW!!!!
This is just great!!!!!
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