I am all most finished with my Panzer IV H/J, But the problem I have is this:
1. what would the base color be on the 3 ton paint scheme if your panzer has turret shirts?
2. How does one paint the turret once they already put the skirts on?

The base color for all 3 color scheme was dunklegelb
Remove schurtzen, paint, replace schurtzen

I think he meant H/J as Hitler Jugend?

There is a pz IV Ausf J. In fact it is the last version of this tank. Most common identifiers: "Flammvernichter" exhausts (vertical stacks) no turret auxiliary engine and IIRC three return rollers.

The Pz III series runs IIRC all the way to N.

IIRC the latest thing in research is that the distinction between Pz IV F1/F2 was never made by the Germans. All assuming of course that very recent developments have not undone the work of H. Doyle, T. Jentz and W. Spielberger.

It is true however that sometimes it is difficult to determine where one version (say Ausf H) ended and the new version (say Ausf. J) began.

What is IIRC? Are you talking about the steel return rollers? I have never seen a picture of a Panzer IV with ny 3 return rollers. J's included, they have always had 4.

My understanding btwn the F-1 and the F-2 was the main gun. The F-1 having the short barrel 75 and the F-2 having the long barrel. My reference is the Squadron Sial Pzkpfw IV in action

IIRC = If I Remember Correctly :-) :-) :-)

Pawel

The lack of distinction is mainly between the F2 and G versions, as the F2 designation was only shortly ( If at all) in use before the F2's became the G versions.
The easiest way to tell a H and a J apart is by checking the exhausts at the rear, The J didn't have the (flat, square) auxillary exhaust next to the main exhaust.


Cheers
Henk

Blaster,

for a three return roller version see Encyclopedia of German tanks (Chamberlain and Doyle, ed. Jentz) plate 311 (p99). Pz IV & variants (Speilberger) top right of p 69.

Okay, if I got it right, the official switch from Ausf. H to Ausf. J was made when the gasoline-electric auxiliary generator was eliminated (Spielberger, p 68). The exhausts were changed during the production run. The early J still had the large muffler of the Ausf. H, later versions the vertical stacks.

Also, during production the switch was made from 4 to three return rollers, and during the last production run back to 4 again (Spielberger, p69).

Another differentiation is a change in the turret-roof (IIRC some of the fume-extractors changed).

Anyway, this discussion is proof of the problems when debating German armor, with changes made during production runs and differences between different manufacturers.

As far as F1/F2/G go, the difference between F1 and F2 is indeed longbarreled vs shortbarreled guns. The transition of F2 to G included the addition of extra frontal armor and the ballshaped muzzlebreak was eliminated and replaced by a double chambered muzzlebreak somewhere around that moment. (Spielberger, p 54).

Hope this helps a bit

Thanks for the update. Learned something new. with the very limited amount of 3 return roller IV's it would explain why I never saw a photo of one. As to diffeences btwn F-2's and G's and the H's and J's that is all the same info I've got

Geeze, and I thought Shermans were hard to keep track of. You Geman modeling guys sure have plenty to keep you busy with research.

Quite Rodger, and this is without taking the customary refitting and field modifications into account. As all German armour brought back for repair/refit would routinely be upgraded with the latest modifications, such as increased armour etc, it can be tricky to determine what version a Pzr started out as, and what modifications have been done.

Cheers
Henk

And we have a lot more varieties to deal with Stugs and 3's, 4's, and all those Tigers and Panthers. I saw just a Panther collection and the guy had at least a dozen major variants in it, and I'm sure there were more.

Jody!
Is this the 1/72nd fully detailed one you have been working on?
I hope you get to bring it north to Baycon or Patcon this year!
How big were the piston rings on the turret aux motor?
JK
(++) (++)

Hi Steve I have a couple of picture of the three return roller PzIV I thought I would share ...Now you can't say you have never seen one ... :-) ..As for colors the first pictures show a good late war scheme.





all the best
Rick