Does anyone know of good sources I can get my hands on that tells the vehicular makeup of the various WWII allied armored divisions, brigades, regiments etc... I'm primarily interested in Commonwealth and US units.

What I'm trying to find out is the number and types of all vehicles used by the various units; AFV's, transport, support. Or, in other words, if a unit had 32 tanks at full strength, how many Jeeps, half-tracks, and other trucks would commonly be found in the organization?

Any reference will be appreciated, whether on-line or in book form. Of course, answers posted here will be accepted too

Thanks!

Brother the ww2 wargamers are the place to go - have already done that for all their games - My friend and I use Rapid fire but the flames of war site should give tou 1 is to 1 details as I have hade to create a NZ armour unit and different infantry units for US
Ian
just look up their web sites pm me and I will look up some more sites -have some for Lorraine campain and will soon have them ardennes american also normandy

David:

Try this one: Battalion Organisation during the Second World War

hope this helps...

Rudi

I have a book that lists TO&Es for the US Army in WWII (no Commonwealth). I'll see if I can at least copy it down if not scan it. It has required listing for vehicles, but this obviously differs from actual combat units due to maintenance, non-/combat losses, unavailable equipment, etc. I'll see what I can find.

Jeff

British Order of Battle - WW II

US Order of Battle - WW II

Hope this helps...
Gunnie

Thanks guys, Rudi and Jim, for those links. This is something I'm interested in also and I book marked those for future use.

Rodger - I don't know if you've ever seen it or have it in your library - but there's a huge reference book dedicated to the US Order of Battle in WW II. It's rare and retails above $90 dollars - but - it is exhaustive.

If I can find the ISBN (again) - I'll post it here. It is truly for the serious...

Gunnie

Sorry - Brain Fart - just had to turn around in the chair...

Shelby Stanton, US Army Order of Battle, WW II
ISBN: 089141195X

AbeBooks.com has this listed at $125 dollars, but you can get used ones from Amazon.com starting around $50 bucks. 602 pages, hardbound, seriously detailed and informative...

Gunnie

That's interesting. I've always heard Amazon and Abebooks used the same search engine, but the book sellers listed are almost totally different and that $50 copy doesn't show on Abebooks. I guess I'll have to start using Amazon's search more.

Thanks for the tip. A bit out of my range right now but I'll keep it in mind.

Thanks for all the helpful replies! Now I have something to study, and books to try and find.

As promised, here is another thing for you to study. Taken from US Army Handbook 1939-1945 by George Forty:

The makeup of an Armored Division included the following as of 14 September 1943:

Organic Units
Division HQ (164 men)
Tank BTN (3x) (729 each)
Infantry BTN (3x) (1,001)
CC HQ and HQ Company (2x – CCA & CCB) (184)
Division Trains (supply) HQ and HQ CO (103)
CCR (reserves) HQ (8)
Field Arty Regiment (3 BTNs) (1,623)

Auxiliary Units:

Cav Recon Squadron (Mechanized) (935)
Engineer BTN (693)
Medical BTN (417)
Ordnance BTN (762)
Signal CO (302)
MP PLT (91)
Division HQ CO (138)
Band (58)
Attached Medical (261)
Attached Chaplain (8)
-----
As of the 16 June 1945 reorganization:

Organic Units:
Division HQ (174 men)
Tank BTN (3x) (700 each)
Infantry BTN (3x) (995
Recon Squadron (894)
Field Arty Regiment (3 BTNs) (1,625)

Auxiliary Units:
CC HQ and HQ Company (2x – CCA & CCB) (184)
CCR (reserves) HQ (8)
Division Trains (supply) HQ and HQ CO (99)
Engineer BTN (660)
Medical BTN (400)
Ordnance BTN (732)
Signal CO (293)
MP PLT (87)
Division HQ CO (115)
Band (58)
Attached Medical (254)
Attached Chaplain (8)


"TO&E makeup for 15 September 1943 US Armored Division"

For the individual Tank BTN:

-BTN HQ: HQ Section: 4 x ¼ ton trucks, 2x M3 Halftracks; Tank section: 2x M4xx tanks

-Headquarters CO: CO HQ: 1x ¼ ton truck, 1x M3 halftrack; AM&S Section: 1x 2 ½ ton truck, 1x 1 ton trailer; Maint Sect: 1x ¼ ton truck, 1x M3 halftrack; BTN Recon PLT: 5x ¼ ton trucks, 1x M3 halftrack; Mortar PLT: 1x M3 halftrack, 3x M21 81mm mortar carriers; Assault Gun PLT: 2x M3 halftracks, 3x M4 (105mm) tanks, 4x M10 ammo trailers

- Medium Tank CO (3x in BTN): CO HQ: HQ section: 1x ¼ ton truck, 2x M4 Tanks, 1x M4 (105mm); AM&S Sect: 1x 2 ½ ton truck, 1x 1 ton trailer; Maint Sect: 1x 1 ¼ ton truck, 1x M3 halftrack, 1x M32 ARV; 3x Tank Platoons of 5x M4 tanks each

- Lt Tank CO: CO HQ: HQ sect: 1x ¼ ton truck, 2x M5 Lt tanks; AM&S Sect: 1x 2 ½ ton truck, 1x 1-ton trailer; Maint Sect: 1x ¼ ton truck, 1x M3 Halftrack, 1x Lt ARV; 3x Tank PLTs of 5x M5 Lt tanks each

- Service CO: CO HQ: HQ Sect: 1x ¾ ton truck; AM&S sect: 1x 2 ½ ton truck, 1x 1 ton trailer; Maint Sect: 1x ¼ ton truck, 1x 2 ½ ton truck, 1x 1 ton trailer; BTN Admin & Personnel Sect: 1x 2 ½ ton truck, 1x 1 ton trailer; BTN Maint PLT: 1x ¼ ton truck, 1 x ¾ ton truck, 2x 2 ½ trucks, 2x 1 ton trailer, 2x M32 ARV, 2x heavy wreakers; BTN Supply and Transportation PLT: 1x ¼ ton truck, 1x ¾ ton truck, 29x 2 ½ ton trucks, 15x 1 ton trailers, 13x M10 ammo trailers.

BTN = Battalion
CO = Company
PLT = Platoon
AM&S = Maintenance
¼ ton truck refers to Jeeps
M4xx refers to an M4 Sherman of undetermined type (book lists “M4 tank
ARV = Armored Recovery Vehicle

-----------
And concluding my longest post EVER, if you want the rest of the division, I can get that. Let me know either here or PM me.

Jeff

Jeff thanks for the last post - that is the sort of info us as wargamers use to but out historical forces
and no Tigers in sight :-) :-) :-)
Ian

Yes, thanks a lot for the post with the info, Jeff! That is what I am looking for.




While I would appreciate the rest of the division detailed out, I won't ask you to type in the rest of the data. Of course, if you're still willing to, I shant argue

I just picked up a couple of Osprey books from their Battle Orders series that has most, if not all, of the information I was looking for.

For anyone else who may be interested, the books titled US Armored Divisions ETO 1944-1945 and US Tank and Tank Destroyer Battalions in the ETO 1944-1945. Both were authored by Steven Zaloga. Picked up both for $32 from Amazon.

In addition to the TO&E information, they also give a brief overview of the history, tactics, and usage of the divisions and battalions.

And for me, some of the coolest bits of information in the Tank and TD Battalions book is the Unit Status section because now I know which of the independent Tank and Tank Destroyer Battalions were attached to my dad's Infantry Division (the 87th) during the Battle of the Bulge

Now to build some dioramas with "family history"!

Tell you what, since you seem to not be bothered with buying books , pick up this one. This is the book that my info came from. Among others, it includes TO&E for armor, infantry, motorized, mountain/jungle, Parachute/Airborne, and multiple other divisions. Other information included is basic info on small arms, uniforms and gear, a listing of divisions in the US Army, which theater they were deployed to, and a written description of each divisions insignia. Plus lots of insightful pictures that I haven't seen elsewhere.

US Army Handbook

Jeff

Nope, no problem whatsoever buying books :-) :-) . Between my wife and I we probably have near to 1000 books lying around the house, mostly History, Reference, and Science Fiction along with other odds and ends

Thanks a lot for the info and link! I think I'll pick up both the US Army and British Army books next time I place an Amazon order.

Cheers