I know there's a movie thread but this one is special, it's about STAR WARS!! I've just watched it last night (10 pm showing) and I tell you it's the best one in this new trilogy! As expected a TON of Special effects and very cheeeesy romantic lines but it's so good I could pass those :-) :-) :-) . It's so good to see a lot of stuff in there that were in the original trilogy and damn what happened to the Jedi. We already know that they were wiped out except Yoda and Obi-Wan but I didn't know that they were betrayed like that, you know.......you're just gonna have to see it.
You may be wondering what stuff were in there.
(WARNING: although minor as they are they are still spoilers. If you want to watch the movie totally unaware of anything DO NOT READ BEYOND THIS LINE, I REPEAT DO NOT READ BEYOND THIS LINE)






























1) The predecessors of the X-wing, Tie fighters, and the Lambda class ships are there.
2) Captain Antilles is there.
3) The Death Star is finally under construction.
4) Sidius' warped face was actually caused by Mace Windu backfiring the lightning-from-fingertips Sith power thingy.
5) Chewbacca is a 200 year-old Wookie with a high civil status in his home planet.
6) The grey outfits with Hitler Jugend like caps finally appear.

I guess that's enough

There's an 18-20 years difference between Episodes 3 and 4. What makes me curious after your spoilers (and probably that won't be easily answered after watching the movie which I will do on Saturday) is that why did it take that long to finish the Death Star?

If you'd remember in Episode 4, the Death Star was tested on Leia's adoptive parents' home planet Alderaan.

Also, if it takes that long to finish 1 death star, I'd bet that the 2nd death star construction has also been underway near Endor as early as 5 years after Episode 3.

Another question: who made the X Wings? If the Republic was just the Republic that transforms into the Empire, I would've expected the Rebels to have older versions of the same equipment. However, seeing the trailer, the X-Wings are obviously made by someone else... a supporter of the Old Republic and the Jedi obviously... will this be revealed in the movie?

If you've been watching Clone Wars in CN, you've seen these predecessors months ago. You'll see even the predecessor for the old A-Wing fighters in Clone Wars.




Bureaucratic inertia, Darth Vader trying out his "choke death grip" on the happy oblivious worker, funding problems, rebel scum throwing a wrench here, a sledge hammer there, Congressional Blue Ribbon Committee investigations ala Centennial Park scam....




As seen in CW and Ep3, the design of the X-Wing already had a predecessor in the ye olde crumbling Republic. That means, it's most possible that the X-Wing itself was already in the drawing board. It could be also that the X-Wing would have been manufactured in the early days of Empire a weeeeeee bit before the Rebellion, and the Empire, having found the TIE fighter better (or someone managed to bribe Vader and Palpatine into choosing the TIE fighter for the EATF [Empire's Advanced Tactical Fighter] competition), or the X-Wing, built during the early days of Empire, its main factory was destroyed or captured by the Rebels. Either way, although the X-Wing looks pretty compared to the TIE and its variants, it has always appeared to me as a "slap-dash creaking fighter", IOW something that would look like it came from Junkyard Wars or Scraphead Challenge. It awfully looks beat up and is hardly clean IMO, so it could be a rebel ingenuity, something that has the right mix of weapons, speed, and maneuverability, then mass produced in some rebel controlled planet.

As for spoilers....

Will the words "rebel scum" be mentioned in the movie? :-) :-) :-)


Some fuel for a flame war hehehehe

Clones, Droids, and the Dark Force of the Sh1t

By ATCTT aka BISIGI

Okaaaaaaaay…. Some of you are probably die hard Star Wars fans, so this’ll inflame you, no doubt. Good! :-)

Anyway, something’s bugging me with the whole Clone Wars thingy and level of technology in Star Wars Ep1 and Ep2. In Ep2, it is said that clones were resorted because they were better than droids. How so? Consider this:

In Ep2 and the Clone Wars series shown in Cartoon Network (which forms part of official SW history since its production was blessed by Lucas, et. al.), clones are needlessly expended like, well, droids! There is no attempt to use them in proper infantry tactics – unless by “proper infantry tactics” you mean the way generals in the European battlefields of the 17th to 19th century (and even up to WW1) were used – mass infantry frontal assaults with no regard to flank protection or even cover and concealment. The use of such tactics in the face of overwhelming firepower is stupid, to say the least. The result are high casualties.

I’m not that steeped into Star Wars lore since Ep1 and Ep2 lost me, so I’m not that knowledgeable in the science behind it, so I shall assume one thing about clones – it takes time to make them grow into adults, and takes them time to train into soldiers.

Considering those two limitations – physical growth and training period – it means the use of clones as a replacement to droids results to minimum returns. Especially in light of the way clones are used in battle – just like they used droids!

Think: one ordinary “Roger Roger” rust colored funny walking freakin’ laser rifle toting droid can be built in minutes, including programming. A single clone Storm Trooper takes YEARS to develop, and then there’s the feeding to be done and educating (yes: all of them have to undergo thru a rigorous course of The Queen’s English), not to mention weeks of Basic Training, weeks of Officer Training, marching drills, target shooting (or the lack of it, as Ep2 shows), etc. In the amount of time a SINGLE clone is produced, a whole armies of droids can be built, fielded, and have their software upgraded.

Think also: thanks to C3PO’s bumbling, we saw in Ep2 that droid parts are and can be interchangeable. Hence, a field of destroyed droids is a goldmine of salvageable parts that can be scraped together to make droids. Apply new paint, update the software, and presto – refurbished droids. With regard to clones, kill one and you get a dead clone.

Now, with these production stats in mind, and how the clones are used in battles, isn’t it a waste of resources to concentrate on building a clone army? What benefits are there anyway? Better accuracy? Some clones shoot from the hip – hardly accurate. Plus, notice the number of laser beams flying all around IN BOTH DIRECTIONS not hitting anything. Sure, accurate, right? Intelligence perhaps, after all, a humanoid mind is better in processing information than a droid, right? But then, surely, in that galaxy far far away with a level of technology that far surpasses ours, artificial intelligence would have been complex enough to do some concentrated tasks better than a humanoid brain can do, like shooting targets (learning FCS in current Merkava IV tanks ensure a one-shoot-one-hit-one-kill capability).

Some argue that the Republic already has a vast reserve of clones and can send divisions of storm troopers to their deaths. But then, if that be the case, still, aren’t droids still a better, cheaper, more efficient alternative?

Some argue that clones being living humanoids, they are more susceptible to being under the control of the Farce, er, Force, as seen in Ep1 where QGJ and OWK tried to alter the mind of a droid – and fail spectacularly in the process. But then, isn’t that an advantage for the droids? Just make sure their programming isn’t complex enough to make them self-aware that they are used like slaves, and thus become effective pawns – to be used effectively against the Jedi. The mind control thingy makes the Storm Trooper susceptible to mind control to Jedi as well – as seen in Ep4, 5, and 6.

So, having said that, I find no reason why the Republic (or Lucas for that matter) would take a technological step back – or more appropriately, a back flip – when it resorted to the use of clones rather than droids. Doesn’t the Republic have the industrial capacity to build better and badder droids? Or maybe they’re just too stupid?

Now, as for the tech aspect, a lot of people have noticed that it seems tech before the Imperial days of Pope Benedict XVI (otherwise known as Darth Sidius aka Emperor Palpatine) was more advanced than tech during his reign. I venture a solution to such issue: Read Battletech.

In Battletech, technology of the Inner Sphere factions (minus ComStar) in the 31st century was not as advanced as the days of the Star League. In fact, in some books, technology in those times wasn’t much different than 21st century technology. The reason: The Succession Wars.

Perhaps, thanks to the dissolution of the Republic and the annoying Rebellion that followed, the level of technology in SW456 went down. This would mean one thing: the Clone Wars and the Rebellion was destructive, paving the way for bugs to take over Tattooine and turn it into Bug City, where Rico and gang would come in with their mobile suits and kill monstrous bugs flinging asteroid after asteroid at Buenos Aires….

So… anyone here want to debate the merits of SW? We could always change the topic: who’s hotter – Amidala in her tight white suit, or Leia in her skimpy attire for her jaunt with that sandworm thingy? Hehehehe

FLAME SUIT ON! FLAME TANK ONLINE! CONCENTRATE FIRE ON THAT SUPER STAR DESTROYER! GO UMBRELLA LASER, GO! Hehehehe! :-) :-) :-) :-)

Uhhh ... question:

So "roger" is actually a universally (pardon the pun) accepted term meaning "acknowledged"?

:-)

Well, first of all GI I can't deny that all your points are valid. Sending a supposedly "technologically advanced" army in a medieval kind af war is a waste and about those clones I think you're also right, but this is Star Wars and it has a signature that defines it. If it will be modified to suit more realistic and logical battles then I guess it will no longer be Star Wars. Not to mention the commercial value of such an overhauled Star Wars movie. Fans all over the world would probably curse Lucas if that happens. If you're gonna watch it I guess one has to remember the most important thing about movies, escapism. Forget everything you have to say about the movies and just enjoy it ( if it is worth enjoying........remember Troy and Windtalkers).

P.S. The droids are AFAICS exclusive for the trade federation so the republic can't acquire them. Well they could design their own but the clones are already there.

I guess I have to agree with BISIGI

Things I find really weird in Star Wars:

Medieval land battles
WW2 dogfights
Starships fighting broadside

Considering what I learned in physics, space is empty and zero gravity. That is why space shuttles have multiple exhausts. It blasts a little thrust to certain small exhaust ports so it can maneuver.

So, if the spacecraft was using guided missiles, then those missiles would be highly ineffective and inaccurate. First, the missile would have to carry a lot of fuel for the weapon to manuever. Second, since the missile is carrying a load, it would be heavier and "slower" than a laser bolt. Third, it has to be programmed so that it can maneuver, especially if it is designed as a "fire-and-forget-weapon." The delay in correcting its course will be an easy opportunity for the enemy to evade it, considering that Star Wars ships are highly maneuverable. Finally, if misses a target it goes through space forever, unless it hits something.

Lasers, in starwars, are plasma-converted-gas, except perhaps for that of the Death Star. This means that this gas is in energy form until the plasma cools and loses coherence. When it loses coherence, we can say that it has "reached its max range." However, energy is not affected by gravity. Thus it is far more accurate and economical than lasers.

Just my thoughts. Just pieced it together using my "Guide To The Star Wars Universe" book.

Angela

did you guys see the stromtrooper outfit in endor? cool pang airsoft yun ah... ahehehehhehe

Hmmm..that's why it's called a SCI-FI/FANTASY movie, right? Yeh! (++) I reckon the whole star wars franchise never did try to appear as realistic, right? I mean, man! Imagine if Chewbacca was real, we'd have BIGFOOT+SASQUATCH+A DOG in one.

My 2 cents.

I'd like to share my qualms about EP3, but I'm waiting 'til everyone sees it -- as most of my qualms are plot-related. Wouldn't want to give those out..Hehe!

wonder who inflicts the most damage when you add Macross into the fight?

while we're at it lets add mechs and terminators to the mix!

may airsoft kayang light saber? tapos ang outfit ala darth vader...or storm troopers ang puputi! ang sniper naka chubaca get up with matching growl. may magsusot kaya ng droid? hehehe

Fritz: I hated Windtalkers and Troy so much I wanted to puke. At least I didn't pay to watch WT (saw it - in spurts and spasms - on cable), but Troy... now that's good money down the drain hehehehe

As for SWEp3, let's just say I got spoiled by LOTR and MaC. Especially LOTR - which is the "nearest movie franchise" that can be compared to SW. LOTR was realistic to a degree, thanks to Tolkien who once served in the British armed forces (or was it South African?) during WW1. He knew his stuff, and PJ more-or-less managed to transform that stuff on the books to the big screen. Ok, so the cavalry charge of the Rohirrim was a weeee bit excessive (especially in the Pelennor scene), but if you can watch closely, the orcs there were practically quaking in their boots and so lost a most important factor in defeating a cavalry charge with a mass of pikes - discipline. Their ranks weren't tight enough to break the cavalry charge - plus the fact that the Rohirrim were charging with their last breath (and so, since there was nothing else to lose except life and limb, might as well go full force charging). My point is that LOTR was, when compared to SW, was more realistic in its battle scenes compared to SW - and that was spoiled by PJ. :-)

Yeah, SW has its certain "touch/uniqueness", but adding realistic battle scenes wouldn't hurt the film. In fact, it would've even made it better, since it would look more logical and hence more "closer to home." In LOTR, I felt the rush of the cavalry or the horror of a seige. In SW, I see comedy. :-)

Of course, in reality, interstellar wars would involve destroying whole planetary systems by wiping out the star. No dinky starships - just big weapons, aim at star, and kaboom - no more planetary system. Or, if the beligerents would want the planets, they'd result to bio/chem weapons, not lasers. Quick, painless, and would do the job. :-)

Even if I suspend reality (tech-wise) while watching SW, I still will probably be disappointed (hate is too strong a word - but very close to what I'll feel when I watch it :-) ) by the dialogue, having seen the crappy dialogue in Ep1 and Ep2. Which is one reason why I haven't watched the film yet. :-)

I'm really watching it for several things:

1. Natalie Portman
2. Want to see li'l orphan Ani get his arse kicked around
3. Natalie Portman
4. Pope Benedict XVI's film debut
5. Natalie Portman
6. The possibility of torture for Jar Jar Binks (rubs hands in evil glee)
7. Natalie Portman
8. Popcorn
9. Rootbeer
10. Natalie Portman

I guess, in the end, one thing that'll summarize Ep1 to 3 will be: Sh1t happens. :-)

Angela: Stop talking about physics. Head hurts... ouch... :-)




Don't stop there! There's also Voltron, Mecha Godzilla, and the Gundams! :-)

Watched Ep3 last Saturday. I loved the opening sequence, lamenesses notwithstanding :-)

Detail spoiler:

I also loved the scene where they were trying to slow down the Separatist starship. The braking system is almost exactly that of a Panavia Tornado, with the upper and lower booster canisters swiveling towards each other to form a "parachute" behind the booster, effectively reversing thrust.

And guess what... they even have flaps! Starships with flaps. Weird.

Oh yeah, the broadside cannons actually eject spent cartridges (plasma containers?). Again, counterintuitive. It was funny in its own way.

http://www.starwars.com/episode-iii/bts/production/f20050526/index.html

Easter Eggs. Spoiler warning.

Finally watched it last Sunday. The day before that (Saturday), I opted to watch "Madagascar." Yep, I was *that* enthusiastic about Star Wars.... :-)

So, lemme start...

(Cate Blanchett's voice) In the land of Mordor, in the fires of Mt. Doom, Anakin and Obi Wan fought to the death. Later, the Dark Lord Sidius forged his Master Apprentice, in whom he poured his cruelty, his hatred, and his madness. One Sith to rule them all.

One by one, the peoples of the old republic fell before the dark lord's empire. But something happened that they did not expect.

A female - Amidala of Naboo - gave birth to children. And it would soon come to pass when twins would affect the destiny of all in the universe.... (end Cate Blachett's voice) (cue in Shire music....) :-)

Ok, with much reduced expectations, I now rate (note! lower expectations!) the Ep3 as good. A low B. Of course, if I didn't change my standards, it would rate a low B- or a high C. Among Eps123, 3 was the best (of course). I still have shivers remembering that frolicking scene in Ep2...

What I liked:

1) R2D2 - really. The ONLY thing I like in the SW universe. It's just absolutely cute. And he gets to kick a$$, too!

2) Seeing numerous limbs getting cut off with light sabres - oooh! A hand there, an arm here, a head over there....

3) Camouflage - yes! Finally, some clone actually have camouflage! Notice those escorting Yoda? They had a camo pattern. Cool. However, the rest of the clones were in multicolored uniforms....

4) Sexy alien girl with white dress and apparently bra-less generous chest - anyone noticed that? No one? Worth for a second watch of the movie... :-) Really! She was there! And I wasn't watching an alien porn flick! Tsk tsk tsk no one noticed? Tsk tsk tsk your radar ain't online then

5) The ending - this, I have to hand it to Lucas. Unlike Eps12456, the ending of 3 was great IMO. I'm talking from the birth scene (or Darth Vader suit making scene - which ever comes first) to the start of the end credits. Good ending IMO. If only the rest of the movie was just as good...

What I didn't like (gets roll of toilet paper):

1) Preaching. "If you're not with me, you're my enemy" (sounds like a jab at Bush). "Only a Sith would deal in absolutes." (yep, a jab at Bush). "Democracy blah blah blah" (a jap at the current USA). Hell, can't they just leave their political agendas aside and give us an honest-to-goodness entertaining sci-fi movie? If they want to preach, go ahead, make a Farenheit 9-11 sort of film. I won't complain about that. But put their agenda in a sci-fi soap opera?

2) Cheezy lines - so cheezy, it activated my lactose intolerance. "Hold me like you held me by the lake in Naboo." OH FER CRYING OUT LOUD! Then there was those other cheezy lines....

3) Broadside firing ships - when I said "Lucas ought to get lessons from 'Master and Commander'", I didn't mean it in the literal sense of copying 18th century frigates firing 18-pounders! That was really stupid - having massive gun ports the size of an average sized-house at Forbes, thus naturally being ill-protected and vulnerable. Shields? Apparently, in the Lucas universe, ships don't have 'em.

4) Flaps. Ouch.

5) Light sabre duels - still, by far, the best was in Ep1 with Darth Maul. Those in Ep3 were not so exciting. Dooku looked like a dainty ballet dancer handling that light sabre.

6) Flip flop - If Vader sounded like Bush, then Anakin sounded like Kerry (hey - Lucas has an agenda, might as well answer it hehehe). Immediate transformation at that scene where Palpy nearly got killed. Alright, so he was walking that line already, but still, the immediate lame transformation was just too... abrupt, weak, and sounded like a flip-flopper alright.

7) Stupid Wookie tech. I fail to see how important they are, having primitive weapons.

8) Capes - what's with the stupid capes?!?!?

9) Count Dooku's name - Count Dooku. Sounds stupid. Dooku Dooku Dooku where are you? Probably went to the dark side because his mother called him that....

10) "No no no no NO no NO NO no no" - that was lousy.

11) Dialogue - atrocious

I must say, Natalie Portman in this film failed to make me go gaga over her. She looked tired and depressing.

So... there it is. My review.

Now, time for me to watch "Master and Commander" or LOTR for therapy. :-)

I saw that alright, but I was with my wife.