Here's a thought for us all. This really spun off from Norsemans' post about Dragon 3-in-1s.
When I started modelling in 1/35 some 30 (that's easy when you say it quick) years ago, what was available was a lot more limited. The model soldier makers disdained the "upstart" 1/35, they were set in the traditional 1/32 54mm scale, so the only figures were those that came with the vehicles & if the positions didn't suit, you chopped them around. PE? You cut up an old toothpaste tube. If you wanted a different version of a vehicle, you converted it yourself. If you wanted any softskin, you scratched it yourself.
If you were building a diorama, you made any buildings & terrain from whatever you could find.
Tamiya were undisputed kings then, clearly better than any of the other makers. To have a kit which actually fitted together was a revelation.
Ok so lets compare the situation now. Want some distinctive figures for your dio? Easy, ring up Verlinden or one of the other dozen or so firms making resin figs. Same applies to buildings & terrain. Even in plastics there are Tristar, Dragon etc. Numerous firms offer anything from bolt-on conversions to obscure vehicles of all eras.
Are we happy? Are we hell! "The new half track from Dragon is missing a bolt from underneath ", or "Trumpeter didn't quite make the model of Abrams I wanted". I'm as guilty of this as anyone.
Years ago the real experts scratched their own vehicles & produced results we could only dream of. This is what marked them out. Now any reasonably competent "assembler" can produce something professional looking if they are prepared to throw enough money at it. Have we lost something along the way?
Let's just put it down to progress. After all you can have ridden a motorbike for years, but however hard a rider you are, a kid on a big Jap bike will just breeze past you if you're still on that old Norton...

IMHO, we are spoiled. There are an ungodly amount of model kits out there. So many after market parts I can't even think of them all. I am not a "rivet counter". I build my models any way I wish. If they don't meet someone else's standards, so be it. If you want your models to be exact copies of real vehicles, then you're willing to do and spend whatever it takes to get your kit to that point.

It wasn't so long ago that if the part you needed wasn't in that box, you had to make it. There weren't even that many manufacturers around anyway. I remember when it was Revell and Monogram and nothing else.

I understand that a lot of people build models with the sole purpose of entering them in shows to win awards, trophies, etc. That is great. And I've said before I have quite a bit of admiration for those who put forth such a tremodous effort to get their kits to an almost life like look. I wish I had the talent and patience to do it. And it it wasn't for the "rivet counters" those of us who needed to know which color a tank was or where the extra machine gun went would be totally lost.

Some of us just like to have something to do to take our minds off things and relax. It takes me back to being 12 years old again. No worries. I just like building models. It's great, ain't it!!

Anyway, just have a good time with it. Don't sweat the small stuff. In this day and age with so may of our sons, daughters, fathers, mothers and friends out there in harms way, gas costing $2.50 a gallon, high prices, unemployment and god know what else bad out there, go sit down at your modeling spot and just leave it out there for awhile an have some fun.

I'm happy. Thanks why I am glad when a new kit comes out and am relatively satisfied as long as it builds nicely and looks the part.

I remember the days when you built the Tamiya M4A3, the Testors (Italeri) M4A1 and then built another Tamiya M4A3 but this time put the Italeri turret on it and vice versa. Did we care that it wasn't truly accurate? Not really, of course we didn't "know" any better then.

I remember when Tamiya made the only Abrams on the market. Then I remember Esci coming out with an M1 and M1A1. While these two Abrams kits will forever be remembered as the worst Abrams kits to ever be made in plastic, I remember using Evergreen rods, sheets and strips to rebuild that nasty Esci M1A1 into a reasonable likeness of an M1A1. This was before even AEF Designs did a resin conversion (which I eventually bought).

I was fortunate enough to have an actual tank as reference, but this wasn't all that long ago (1988-90).

For every modeler who whines about the Dragon Abrams being a hard build or complains that the non-slip coating is missing on the Tamiya M1A2, I feel like condeming them to building the Esci Abrams using the old method of liquid cement and baking powder (or soda?) to add the non-slip coating.

I probably built a good half dozen of the Esci kits accurized into fair likenesses for friends as departing gifts when they left Germany.

Some of us just like to have something to do to take our minds off things and relax. It takes me back to being 12 years old again. No worries. I just like building models. It's great, ain't it!!

Amen! I couldn't have said it better Tony. I don't build to compete. I just build for the escape. After a hard week or a long day I feel the need to get away into my model building place. I dont use much aftermarket unless the kit really warrents it, I want the kit to look special for me. I get the satisfaction of making something look good not perfect as the 1:1 scale but close.

Before Armorama I never shared my kits with anyone. I share here because the community is so friendly and honest. I truly enjoy the lack of competition here. All modellers all skills, it is truly a diverse community.

So yes I agree we are spoiled and yes we need to remember where we came from. Times are grand in this hobby of ours. So many options so many kits.

I'll second that Amen....well put.

I'll agree to this. I started building kits in the late 60's, and my first Tamyia kit, the SAS jeep I purchased from the squadron shop - literally the SHOP when there was more than one, and no mail order. During the Mid 70's I discovered Charlie Pace, who was one of the first mail order shops. I dreamed of building like Shep Paine and then Verlinden. Slowly over time I learned the skills I needed to make stuff from toothpastes foil, and plastic strip. Today most of my builds are AMS'd to death, and are built for publication or competition - am I happier? You bet your arse I am. Do I feel spoiled - you bet and keep it coming! I love all the AM stuff, but I still enjoy working with plastic, lead foil and all my old friends.

Spoiled or has the bar been raised? Is it simply that we've been shown you don't have to settle for a Walker Bulldog based on a 30+ year old mold that's never been retooled when there are two other manufacturers putting out much more detailed examples for the same money or less?

The world is moving forward and some companies are happy to reissue, unchanged, yet again, a model I built 30 years ago. You don't need to count rivets to ralized bigass motorization holes in the hull or sponsons that show light from the commander's hatch don't make for an accurate reproduction.

Would we accept going to a car dealership and be willing to accept a 1975 Civic with 80 horsepower and body panels ready to rust or a Pinto with an explosive fuel tank or a Chevy pretty much guarranteed to burn oil faster than gas at 50,000 miles? We expect cars to last over a hundred thousand miles because the technology is there.

Would we be willing to pay $150 for a "pocket calculator" that ran on 4 penlight batteries (for about an hour) and had no internal memory so that you couldn't even do a "clear entry?" We expect calculators to be solar powered and cheap because the technology is there.

Would we be willing to pay $2000 for a 66 mhx computer with 8 mb ram and a 522 mb hard drive then pay $80 for an 8 mb upgrade for the ram? We expect fast and economical computers because the technology is there.

Would we be willing to pay $400 for a 12 inch cathode ray TV with two mechanical tuner knobs and no remote and tubes the size of lightbulbs inside or a stereo with an 8 track player whose tapes faded out int he middle of songs to accomodate the medium and were routinely eating by the hardware? We expect highquality, long lasting electronics becaouse the technology is there.

Would we settle for Pong when there in Medal of Honor?

Why should we settle for less than the best quality for the dollar in our chosen hobby?

I think a major contributor has been the Internet. In the mid to late 90's when the Internet was not too accessable (in SA), and online shopping had not yet taken off globally, I lived in a world where what was on the shelf was what was available. It was not economically viable to buy hobby goods via mail order (for myself) due to extremely high exchange rates - ok, and I was a student, so booze, parties, booze, girls, and booze (did I mention booze :-) ) had a higher priority for me than plastic kits :-) :-) :-) .

My point is (similar to Hohenstaufen's progress point) that through technology the hobby has become more accessable to a wider market. In ignorant bliss I never knew of AM products or the great variety of manufacturers. Now I do, and now I expect quality, quantity, good prices, and that my needs and desires are met - from all potential suppliers.

I have been fattened up, now I am greedy and demand more to satisfy my insatiable appetitie. (++)

Patience, skill, seeking solutions for simple problems, why learn to sand and fill a gun barrel, when for 20 bucks you can buy a metal one, for 20 bucks I can find me some more instant gratification. Why drill out cooling jackets, when for 10 bucks you can get more instant gratification, with a photo etched one. Why drill out gun barrels, when for 20 bucks you can buy one already drilled for me??? .

Why even try to attempt to correct or do a conversion, just buy the 90 buck resin, more instant gratification,
I remember the days too, when a conversion was done by the "Modeller", not the resin manufactures..... I remember the fights and arguements at IPMS over allowing resin glue on conversions in the conversion class...... I remember the days when IPMS was PLASTIC Models.... with 90% needing to be made from plastic..... to enter.(Now you're lucky to find one 50%) I remember ship guys, and armor guys making there own chains from stretched sprue.I remember modellers cleaning up plastic tow cables, and drilling out exhusts. I remember using balsa wood, Talcum powder, and Hard As Nails to correct aircraft shapes. Now... for 60 bucks I can glue on a resin casting, that some one used balsa wood, talcum powder, and hard as nails to make a master....cast it and call it
"MY MODEL'.... look how talented I am..... Thanks Harry for doing the work for me, and while your making my next major conversion..... bring me a beer...... Why even attempt to scratch build a wheel well, cockpit, landing gear, why learn a few new modelling skills when for 200 bucks, I can impress everyone, with all my aftermarket, glue on skills.....
I know most of the guys that have posted already remember the days of wiring engines with thread, and carving bits of plastic to replace parts..... That has always been the fun of the hobby..... at least fo me it's always been the fun part, , and still is.

OH... I can easly come up with the self-justification that I'm only going to accept the best.... and only the best is good enough for me. But that's hog wash.... All I really am doing is accepting the best that someone else made, and me gluing it on, instead of me trying to really do MY BEST, trying to read plans and photos, trying to do it myself, and being willing to accept that sometimes my best isn't as good as the guys next to me best, but at least I tried my best, not bought it.

But the most important thing I think we lost, are the young people who think they can't have fun, enjoy the hobby, and build good models themselves simply by developing some simple basic modelling skills. Simply by attempting to do that conversion, without the 90 buck resin after market, by simply learning to sand gun barrels, a little more carefully, with finer sand paper, by simply learning to read a set of plans, and use a set of dividers and rulers, but simply learning to scratch-build those cockpits, and details. And learning that not every project or part turns out perfect, and that a hell of a lot end up in the trash, but at least you made it.... and didn't just buy it glued it on......

OH it's easy to demand better kits from the manufactures....
YET we are so willing to overlook demanding more of ourselves, and improving our skills, and stop expecting someone else to "make the conversion / detail set for us" What happened to the days when MODELLERS detailed THEIR MODELS... with THEIR DETAILS, using what was available, making it truely THEIR MODEL..... mistakes and all.

As soon as a kit is released, with in weeks the aftermarket has jumped on the band wagon..... and even after all these years, I'm still trying to figure out why anyone would get excited over a 2D photo etched part replacing a 3D part, Hell, convince enough it's better.... they'll actually believe it. Now you don't even have to paintt the damn stuff... someone else did it for you...... But I'll use it, and convince everyone that I "Built" the model, and look how great those seat belts look....... !!!!

If I was younger, I'd take up a different hobby, listen to some of the aftermarket hype..... Lets see for this 20 buck kit, I now need the cockpit set.... 30 bucks, the wheel well set.... 25 bucks, the control surface set, 25 bucks, the Vac canopy 3 bucks, the new improved wheels since the wheel well set didn't come with them.... 5 bucks, and since the landing gear is .5mm too long/short and it also didn't come with the wheel well set, I have to have the 15 buck landing gear set. And of course the decals are no good, so I spring for another 10 bucks for 4 aircraft, and all I'm building is one. And three months later, it's reported that this greatest decal sheet since the coming of Christ, in wrong..... Then I get to sping for the BIG ED set for another 90 bucks..... incase something you need a 500 power micro-scope to see maybe missing........

Think I'll go build an Eastern Express kit, do some sanding, fit some parts, make a few parts from toothpaste tubes, shim stock, wire, and streached sprue, and anything else I can come up with, and build MY MODEL..... and not give a damn who likes it....... :-) :-) :-) :-)

I find it amazing that no sooner is a kit released, the posts start about when is so-and so going to release the cockipt set, new wheels/tires, canvas top, photo-etched set.....
Oh for the old days of building a Vacuform Tonka kit..... and finishing it. :-) :-) :-)

Dave

You appear to have given this some thought... :-)

You are 100% right. However, I still think because we have been spoilt we just accept it as part of the hobby now.

I guess it's kinda like microwave dinners, it's quick to get the end result and it looks ok. But the fact is that the traditional way of cooking, although more time consuming, is better and healthier. Hope this analogy is appropriate - and understandable

I think that each of the above posts is right, because all of us want something different from our hobby. Personally I will build what I want, if I can, and only buy aftermarket if I really feel that it's justified.
In the main part this is down to cost - why spend more on aftermarket than the kit cost in the first place. Most times I could buy another model or two for the cost of improving one, and money for my hobby ain't that easy to come by!

Myself, i dont think we are spoiled by what we have, Spoilt really means we have more than we deserve, which i think is definetly not the case, i mean times change, technology changes, we have all these new kits and new ways of getting things because of this.
I know i still chop a fig if i want a pose, as resin is a big no no, due to its price.
For a diorama, if i want a building or terrain, or anything in it, bar static grass i make it myself.
So i wouldnt say Spoilt, but i'd say we have it alot easier
And as for being a Rivert counter, no way, not me...unless its something australian, then they had better get the damn thing 100% correct :-) Cheers

Spoiled? No. I for one don't want to return to the 'good old days' when they was little choice, difficulty in finding good references, limited to one kind of paint etc.,etc.

No do I want a TV service that only offers me three crappy channels...

It may be too early to say we're in a 'Golden Age' but it's coming damned close...

If I want AM i'll buy it, if I build OOB then i'll do it. Ultimately it's the consumer that decides..Jim

I ll second Jim;s talking. Since modelling for over 25 years i remember these "good old days" and i prefer the "better new days " :-)

All
Its a great life if you dont weaken------go to it guys--it sure is fun watching the hornets buzzing. It stil boils down to the fact ,that over 50yrs ,the questions and answers have not gone away ,or diminished ,in the total immersion of modellers in the hobby.
Build what you want -as good as you want-for as long as you want-for your own enjoyment and tough if the "rivet counters" don't like it -----who gave them the right to criticise-----its our hobby to do as we wish when we wish and to pay what we wish (if we can afford it).
aye ,
barv

I think you left one important equation out of being spoiled, to be spoiled it takes money, and lots of it today.

Yes you can buy things for 20, to 200 dollars to spruce up your model, or maybe more, but if you don't have that money, then you look for ways to make them like I'm trying to do. I'm searching for supplies all the time, so I can have them on hand to when I start any project.

Now it cost a lot of money just to buy the supplies, but in the long run they are way cheaper then the after market items, but it takes a lot of skill and practice to make them work.

But it is a lot of fun to me, the learning involved, now I might buy some after market items if they are with in reason, but if not, I'll try to make them, or do without.

Kerry

If we all really just wanted to go back to the roots of modelling we'd cut down our our tree to cut out a little block of wood and carve a tank. I just think that as we advance into the future we just expect a lot more for the value of our money and the input of our time.

Spoiled? I don't think so. I believe that if there is some business that is willing to put together a kit rather than us individuals creating our own molds, that business had better do a good job. It has to be vastly superior to what I can do personally and it must improve and evolve.

Im not spoiled. I build kits, thats what I do. I may try scratchbuilding at some point , but right now I build kits. The more kits there are the better it is for me. I dont buy after market parts , not because I object to them , but because for the most part I just cant afford to or have no idea they exist. Im equally happy building an old Airfix kit as I am building the latest Dragon one , what can I say , I`m easily amused.

Spoiled? Nah, we're finally being treaded right :-)

Pff I wouldn't know about "the old days". Still too young for that. I think brands like Dragon and Tristar are doing excellent jobs with their releases and they should keep this good work up, no doubt!

I don't think we're spoiled....producers won't just give us extra things, they do give extra things to sell more, just marketing......well that's how I see it.

Everything improves over time, scale models too! And that's a good thing....

Martin

No kidding! However, everything he mentioned is exactly the reason I won't enter anything of mine into a contest. I just build for me. If it trips my trigger then that's good enough.

Dave, I think I've found your long lost twin...he's friend of mine and in reading your repsonse I would have sworn it was written by him! :-) :-) :-) :-)

but I do miss those 1/72 matchbox armor kits .

Kris

No need to miss them. Revell make some of them. I`ll be building the Chaffee over the weekend. Shame its only 1 colour plastic tho and not the old 2 tone kit.

Everybody is different, that is what makes it so much fun. We aren't spoiled, the companies are doing more to try to get your business, times change, people change, that is the greatness of it all.

Some like to paint, some like to build, and then some just like to have the things that the other two done, there is all kinds, and that is OK, what ever makes you happy, that is what makes the world go around.

Things evolve, and with that modeling has to, so embrace it, have fun, it is just a hobby I've heard once, by a famous man.

Kerry

I agree with you guys. I think it's great that there are so many kits out there and after market sets to enhance our builds. But, I do think that we are spoiled to the extent that some get upset when a kit doesn't have the gas cap in the exact spot on the hull where it should be. I think we should just be glad that a company make that kit so we can have something to lady about. And you have to know someone has a fix for it. So, build and enjoy.