The British are pushed out of Burma by the Japanese early in WW II. With the loss of Burma the principal overland supply route to China is cut. By 1943, the British try and fail several times to retake portions of Burma. In early 1944, an offensive push gets some momentum when Chindit raiders under British Genral Wingate and American engineers start building a new route to Ledo in Northern Burma. A massive engineering effort eventually links the Ledo road with the old Burma road. A pipeline line is laid to put fuel through to China. The question is: was the Burma Road worth the effort?
DJ
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Burma Road
210cav
Member Since: February 05, 2002
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Posted: Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 08:15 PM UTC
Ranger74
Member Since: April 04, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 01:28 AM UTC
DJ - Your up early on a Sunday morning. 
A ground supply link from India to China was required for two reasons:
- To keep China in the war. China had to be kept in the war, if for no other reasons than to tie down the majority of Japanese Army and Army Air Force, and to keep raw materials out of Japanese hands.
- To supply the parts, bombs and fuel required to keep the Air Corps units located in China operating. The Army Air Corps was active against Japanese operated ports in China and the first B-29 raids against Formosa and the Japanese Home Islands were flown from airfields in China. One reason for the big 1944-45 offensive by the Japanese was to capture the air bases in near the Burma border.
The US could not airlift nearly enough supplies by air for both the Chinese Nationalist Army, and for the US Army Air Corps. It got so bad that US bombers, including B-29s had to carry their bomb loads over the Himalayas from India to China, refuel and continue on to targets.
So I believe, until air bases within range of Japan were captured in the Pacific, bombing from China was necessary. So the Ledo-Burma Road was necessary to support air operations.
A ground supply link from India to China was required for two reasons:
- To keep China in the war. China had to be kept in the war, if for no other reasons than to tie down the majority of Japanese Army and Army Air Force, and to keep raw materials out of Japanese hands.
- To supply the parts, bombs and fuel required to keep the Air Corps units located in China operating. The Army Air Corps was active against Japanese operated ports in China and the first B-29 raids against Formosa and the Japanese Home Islands were flown from airfields in China. One reason for the big 1944-45 offensive by the Japanese was to capture the air bases in near the Burma border.
The US could not airlift nearly enough supplies by air for both the Chinese Nationalist Army, and for the US Army Air Corps. It got so bad that US bombers, including B-29s had to carry their bomb loads over the Himalayas from India to China, refuel and continue on to targets.
So I believe, until air bases within range of Japan were captured in the Pacific, bombing from China was necessary. So the Ledo-Burma Road was necessary to support air operations.
Sabot
Member Since: December 18, 2001
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Posted: Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 04:14 AM UTC
Yes, it was. Multiple lines of communication gave the ability to continue pushing supplies forward even if the weather or enemy activity had shut down another route. The air route was susceptable to both weather, the occasional enemy aircraft and bad luck (A/C failure, pilot error, smack into mountain). The pipeline is great for fuel, but how do you transport other classes of supply through it?
210cav
Member Since: February 05, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 08:44 AM UTC
So, a follow-up question. Should we have exploited the advantages presented by the Chinese airbases by supplying ground troops to fight the Japanese on the Chinese mainland?
Ranger74
Member Since: April 04, 2002
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Posted: Monday, September 23, 2002 - 02:57 AM UTC
From what I understand, we did not have sufficient ground troops to commit ti the Chinese mainland. We had only a plan for only 90 divisions and by mid-'45 every one was deployed overseas.
Also, the war in China was extremely polilitical. Not only were the Nationalist and communist in "competition" with each other, there were numerous warloards and factions within Nationalists forces in conflict. We did have US medical and armor units in support of Chinese forces, specifically in Burma. It would have been too difficult to adequately supply those forces ad to esure they could operate with teh Chinese withour getting screwed by some Chinese warlord. We could defeat the Japanese as we were without needing ground tropps on the Chinese mainland.
Also, the war in China was extremely polilitical. Not only were the Nationalist and communist in "competition" with each other, there were numerous warloards and factions within Nationalists forces in conflict. We did have US medical and armor units in support of Chinese forces, specifically in Burma. It would have been too difficult to adequately supply those forces ad to esure they could operate with teh Chinese withour getting screwed by some Chinese warlord. We could defeat the Japanese as we were without needing ground tropps on the Chinese mainland.
shiryon
Member Since: April 26, 2002
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Posted: Monday, September 23, 2002 - 07:46 AM UTC
I don't think the return would have been worth the casualties.The war would be won or lost depending on what happened in the home Islands.whether this would have come from the invasion of Japan or the eventual nukes.To have put much more into that area would have been a true waste. As it was the theatre claimed orde wingate in a plain crash.one of the few to think out of the box in the british Army.
Josh weingarten
aKa shiryon
Josh weingarten
aKa shiryon
210cav
Member Since: February 05, 2002
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Posted: Monday, September 23, 2002 - 08:15 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I don't think the return would have been worth the casualties.The war would be won or lost depending on what happened in the home Islands.whether this would have come from the invasion of Japan or the eventual nukes.To have put much more into that area would have been a true waste. As it was the theatre claimed orde wingate in a plain crash.one of the few to think out of the box in the british Army.
Josh weingarten
aKa shiryon
Josh---good points. If you ever want to subject to write a book on it might just be "Revisiting the Burma Rooad." Talk about a waste of time and talent. We began to use the road to supply China late in 1945. It took six weeks to drive the route from Ledo to Chun King. A a symbol, the Chinese robbed us with labor and materiel costs. So, now it sits as nothing more that a scar in the jungle landscape.
Makes you wonder
DJ
clovis899
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Posted: Monday, September 23, 2002 - 03:53 PM UTC
I think in answering this question you have to look at it in the realities of 1944-45. Was it worth it then without the hindsight that we so easily apply now to the question? Nobody knew for sure if the A-bomb would be finished, let alone accomplish it's intended task. The almost total strangulation of Japan by US sub forces was still a bit in the future. Planning for the full-scale invasion of Japan had begun in earnest, with a frighting number of projected casulties.
If someone has a plan to tie down half of the IJA in China by opening the road and thereby keep them from being employed in the defense of the home islands you do it. Better yet if it can be accomplished with a relatively minimal commitment of US and British troops.
Rick Cooper
If someone has a plan to tie down half of the IJA in China by opening the road and thereby keep them from being employed in the defense of the home islands you do it. Better yet if it can be accomplished with a relatively minimal commitment of US and British troops.
Rick Cooper
210cav
Member Since: February 05, 2002
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Posted: Monday, September 23, 2002 - 07:24 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I think in answering this question you have to look at it in the realities of 1944-45. Was it worth it then without the hindsight that we so easily apply now to the question? Nobody knew for sure if the A-bomb would be finished, let alone accomplish it's intended task. The almost total strangulation of Japan by US sub forces was still a bit in the future. Planning for the full-scale invasion of Japan had begun in earnest, with a frighting number of projected casulties.
If someone has a plan to tie down half of the IJA in China by opening the road and thereby keep them from being employed in the defense of the home islands you do it. Better yet if it can be accomplished with a relatively minimal commitment of US and British troops.
Rick Cooper
Rick--always the dilemna of discussing the past. We can never put ourselves in the mind sets of those who made the decisions. In the case of the Burma Road, I think they have given more serious thought to the long range implications and diversion of resources. They did not based largely on Roosevelt's desire to keep faith with the Chinese. I can't fault them for the effort, but question the practicality of the idea.
DJ
shiryon
Member Since: April 26, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 10:35 AM UTC
I still think it would have been a waste.Given the time to traverse the road as mentioned above the fuel consumed would be enormous. Not to mention the trip from the US aboard needed freighters. remember the trouble we faced in europe requiring things like the Redball express. Imagine if you also had to put troops ove that road.
Josh weingarten
aKA shiryon
Josh weingarten
aKA shiryon
BlueBear
Member Since: August 26, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 01:41 PM UTC
If you have the option and ability to help them and keep them fighting, its not a bad thing to have a few hundred million determined, angry Chinese on your side in a war. These people wrote the book that the Soviets read about human wave attacks as we found out in '51-'53 when we were on the receiving end. 
210cav
Member Since: February 05, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 07:31 PM UTC
Quoted Text
If you have the option and ability to help them and keep them fighting, its not a bad thing to have a few hundred million determined, angry Chinese on your side in a war. These people wrote the book that the Soviets read about human wave attacks as we found out in '51-'53 when we were on the receiving end.
Blue--we certainly felt the effects of the Chinese during the Korean War when they were molded into an efficient fighting force. However, during WW II the corruption of the Nationalist forces limited their effectiveness to say the least. We propped up Chang Kai Shek for way too long. We provided Mao a limited amount of assistance, but we lavished the Nationalist. The Japanese held them at bay and moved forces throughout the country almost to the end of the war. Should we have dealt with Mao instead?
DJ
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