Modeling in General
General discussions about modeling topics.
Why are German subjects so popular?
Hohenstaufen
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England - South East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 11:36 PM UTC
Here's another thought. Do we tend to model foreign equipment because the home-grown stuff is over-familiar? After all familiarity breeds contempt we are told.
When I was young, all the men of my fathers generation had been in the war, policemen still wore 39-45 medal ribbons (so did a lot of servicemen), & there were a lot of ex-military vehicles around, used in forestry, vehicle recovery etc. Diamond Ts, Matadors, Scammells, Bedfords & Austins were 10 a penny. When ever we drove past Cundey & Stewarts scrapyard near Alfreton I always used to try & spot the WW2 stuff!
When I was painting the Dragon British infantry recently I was able to draw on experience of wearing BD in the cadets!
This is not so for German stuff.
Presumably in the 50s German stuff was still considered contentious. When Herald/Britains wanted some troops for their 54mm Khaki infantry to fight they just moulded the same figures in a brown/grey colour & called them "Enemy"!
sgirty
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Posted: Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 12:58 AM UTC
Hi, Kindly excuse this rant here folks, but I just had something of a confrontation over this subject with another person, so I'm kind of coming into this thing a little warm. If the moderators wish to delete this post I'll understand, but I'm going to get this off my chest anyway.

I build mostly German armor, or German equipment in general, for the same reason I got back into the hobby to begin with--Because I like to. If I'm building a certain model I don't care what kind of emblem or flag it happens to have on it or what nation(s) it represents. I'm building it because I like the overall style or makeup, or history of the vehicle in question, and not any political statement (s) it may or may not happen to make to others.

But then I the type of person who would rather sit back and build models, or read a good book, or play with the grand kids, or take a good walk in a wooded park , or even just meditate, instead of plopping my butt down in front of the electonic Idiot box in the front room too. I don't do well with the modern world or it's many brain-washing techniques of 'being and thinking like everybody else should.'

And if this makes me rather strange or sends out some type of political message to others, both outside and inside the hobby in general, I really don't care. I do what makes me feel good, what gives enjoyment to my life.

One of the good things about getting older is that a person begins to realize, or should begin to realize, that enjoyment in this life is doing the things we each like to do and not concerning ourselves if others think these things happen to be 'acceptable' or not to their way of thinking, as long as what we do isn't causing any harm to them.

So I say the more models of German and Soviet equipment of World War II made the better.

Thanks and take care, Sgirty
steeldog51
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Posted: Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 01:20 AM UTC
couldnt agree more sgirty
vertigo
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Posted: Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 01:50 AM UTC
I don't have any favorites, when i walk into my hobby shop i'll pick up a model and buy it, allied and axis it doesn't matter. Then i'll research it and build a diorama around it. I'm a modeller i model kits, enough said
BillyBishop
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Posted: Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 01:56 AM UTC
Sometime we 'think" too much.

I believe that idealogy plays little or no regard in what one builds. (at least in what I build)

I agree with previous posters that in most cases people build what they like.

I have never been in favour of one type of tank or another, one army or another. I do primarily build armour from World War Two (when I build)

I do have more German vehicles in my kit stash. It is because in previous years manufacturers released a majority of German kits.

Now that more allied stuff is being released I find myself buying more Allied kits.

Does this mean I will stop buying German kits?

Nope, but I would rather try my hand at a newly tooled allied kit that a rehash of a German kit...

I think (here I go thinking again) that if you are doing something you enjoy and aren't hurting anyone in the process then "good on ya".

Cheers, Michael
StukeSowle
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Posted: Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 03:34 AM UTC
I chose my builds almost entirely by aesthetics, not by who was "bad" or "good" or what tank was better or what tank won the war.

Given this, my taste leans heavily towards German armor of WW II. They are just more "pleasing" to my eye, especially as you start to factor in the different camoflage schemes.

In my eye the Allied tanks were just plain ugly. Sorry guys, I can't help what I like. Think of it in terms of women. Some men love blonds, some brunettes. Others love Asian women, while others lean towards Hispanic. It's all in the eye of the beholder.

What irks me the most is the Allied fanatics who continually nag modelers who chose German subjects and often how they bring in the "Nazi blame game". What I model is the tank, the lines the curves, the vehicle..not the ideological story behind the nation that made it. I could care if they were capitalist, communist, facist, etc.

Let's enjoy our hobby for what it is and not dig so deep into it eh?
ShermiesRule
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Posted: Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 05:19 AM UTC
Personally I like Shermans BECAUSE of the standardization. To me it is way more cool to build basic Sherman (BTW comes with a variety of guns) and throw on a Calliope, Dozer, Crane, Duplex Drive, etc.

To me the same tank with a variety if fuctions it better that a different vehicle for each function
300wins
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Posted: Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 08:50 AM UTC
why dont we all stop the hand ringing. If you like german stuff,build it.If you like allied stuff ,build it. There is no "one is better than the other" this is a hobby.no more or less. I have both allied n german stuff. Right now i have built 3 allied figures in a row.Maybe i'll do a german next.. who knows. it is all a personal choice. We are all beginning to take this too seriously.,,chill ! rgds jim
DaveCox
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Posted: Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 10:04 AM UTC

Quoted Text

why dont we all stop the hand ringing. If you like german stuff,build it.If you like allied stuff ,build it. There is no "one is better than the other" this is a hobby.no more or less. I have both allied n german stuff. Right now i have built 3 allied figures in a row.Maybe i'll do a german next.. who knows. it is all a personal choice. We are all beginning to take this too seriously.,,chill ! rgds jim



I totally agree Jim - the big moan isn't against other modellers - it's against the manufacturers that only seem to provide us with 3 or more new tiger tanks, all basically the same, to each new allied subject.
GIBeregovoy
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Posted: Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 02:19 PM UTC
Well, if the "Invisible Hand of the Market" has its way, and at the rate Dragon is going, expect to see more German WW2 stuff "individualized". Example:

"Kit 35011232 1/35 Sdkfz 251/1D of 10th platoon, fifth company, of German 12th SS Division at street Stalin corner Leninskiy, town of Kursk, Kursk, USSR, with three figures of German SS infantry platoon named Hans, Dieter, and Bob, with shoe sizes 10, 8, and 8.5 respectively"

"This new Sdfkz 251/1D kit was, according to war records, last seen in Stalin Street corner Leninskiy Avenue, in Kursk during the Battle of Kursk. Said vehicle carried with it three infantrymen named Hans, Dieter and Bob. They were having some strudel and schnapps just before an errant German mortar hit them - a tragedy which caused the Battle of Kursk to tilt to the Soviet side."

Hehehehehehe
Drader
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Posted: Monday, January 17, 2005 - 01:07 AM UTC
I don't mind WW1 and recent German armour (Leopards!!) but anything inbetween has an interest factor of zero. But that's just me.

This stuff about all Allied tanks being OD is an understatement too, after all, when did the Germans have anything as dazzling as the Caunter scheme? And if you want multi-colour schemes the French did it first and better

As for women, could I put in a word for red-heads?
jimbrae
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Posted: Monday, January 17, 2005 - 01:26 AM UTC
Possibly because of the sheer volume of subjects - the tanks that were taken into German service from the occupied states and the incredible variations of uses. The mixture of the antiquated and modern is also attractive for the modeller.

Personally, vehicles like the 251, the 38 (t) or the Hotchkiss 39 variants are fascinating as modelling subjects - the Tiger and Panther leave me cold.

Still only a matter of time before I build a 251 - 24 variants and four different marks. Perhaps that is the answer...Jim
Hiram_Sedai
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Posted: Monday, January 17, 2005 - 02:11 AM UTC
Why are German subjects popular for me?

First, it's because of a computer game I've played for about 5 years now.

I love the variety of functions and colors.

A tank killer, a tank hunter, a tank with skirts, light tank, heavy tank, medium tank, mobile artillery, armored car with tank abilities, huge tanks named after a bumble bee, a small tank named after a cat...it goes on and on. Variants upon variants...what's not to love when it comes to modeling?

When the funkwagon is rockin', don't come a knockin!!

(radio car)



ShermiesRule
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Posted: Monday, January 17, 2005 - 02:40 AM UTC
What exactly is meant when someone says Germans have greater variety? The Germans do seem to have many different types of tanks. However the Allied had 1 tank, the Sherman, that was modified into dozens of different configurations from dozers, rocket launchers, recovery cranes, flails, bridges, snorkels, Duplex drive, etc...

To me both would fall into the category of having variety

That being said I am not trying to bash German armor. I happen to have a new found fascination with the Tiger I (but I hate the variants like Bergtiger and Sturmtiger) and the PZKW IV line, especialy the Jagpanzer IV L/70
bowjunkie35
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Posted: Monday, January 17, 2005 - 02:53 AM UTC

Quoted Text

why dont we all stop the hand ringing. If you like german stuff,build it.If you like allied stuff ,build it. There is no "one is better than the other" this is a hobby.no more or less. I have both allied n german stuff. Right now i have built 3 allied figures in a row.Maybe i'll do a german next.. who knows. it is all a personal choice. We are all beginning to take this too seriously.,,chill ! rgds jim



Uh... the term is hand WRINGING You ring a bell! :-)

Just messing with ya Jimmy!!


bowjunkie35
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Posted: Monday, January 17, 2005 - 02:57 AM UTC

Quoted Text

why dont we all stop the hand ringing. If you like german stuff,build it.If you like allied stuff ,build it. There is no "one is better than the other" this is a hobby.no more or less. I have both allied n german stuff. Right now i have built 3 allied figures in a row.Maybe i'll do a german next.. who knows. it is all a personal choice. We are all beginning to take this too seriously.,,chill ! rgds jim



Honestly, I don't think anyone has become too heated with their responses here. A good question was asked and I believe there have been quite a few good responses without any personal attacks. We can debate things to express our individual tastes. That is what makes the hobby and this place so great. If we all saw eye to eye, it would be pretty boring now wouldn't it?

bowjunkie35
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Posted: Monday, January 17, 2005 - 03:01 AM UTC
Another point in response to this question and on the subject of diversity.
Take the German tank camo schemes for instance, the Tiger more specifically. Because the crews were issued the spray paint for the schemes in the field, there are so many different camo patterns out there that there really is now wrong way to do it, using the proper colors of course.

Same thing with the Luftwaffe. Because there was no real standard camo scheme, you have alot of diversity here, for instance, the BF - 109. How many different schemes have you seen on this one compared to say, the American P47?


drewgimpy
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Posted: Monday, January 17, 2005 - 05:20 AM UTC
Thanks all for the answers and everyone for keeping there cool on the subject. I tried to put a big disclaimer up front that I don't have a problem with these subjects, I just wanted to understan those who do things differently that I do and I got that. I do want to say again that I don't have any problems with those who build German stuff and want to thank those who helped me understand different opinions and ideas. For the most part there are many different reasons most of which I thought were the case but didn't know and that's why I asked.

Everyone would probably agree the hobby would be a lot duller without German subjects and that it would be nice to have more subjects that weren't German to build in plastic (instead of resin). But if I sold models for a living I would make what would put food on the table. From what I have seen the new kits that are allied have sold well so maybe we will see more and we will all be happy or find something new to complain about
ShermiesRule
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Posted: Monday, January 17, 2005 - 07:17 AM UTC
I am not sure more allied subjects wouldn't still keep "food on the table" considering there seems to be a long pent up demand for more plastic allied subjects.

A perfect Sherman (doesn't matter M4, A1, A2,A3 or A4) is still the holy grail out there just waiting for any plastic manufacturer to grab!!
jimbrae
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Posted: Monday, January 17, 2005 - 07:22 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I am not sure more allied subjects wouldn't still keep "food on the table" considering there seems to be a long pent up demand for more plastic allied subjects.



There is a healthy demand, however the weirdest fact (I picked up from another site) is that Tamiya's most successful kit is not the Panther or Tiger but their sandbag set...Jim :-)
Easy_Co
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Posted: Monday, January 17, 2005 - 08:07 AM UTC
I remember my dad telling me of the german surrender he watched a tank crew turn in their vehicle he said that when the tank approached he had to change his trousers he had never seen anything so scary in his life, but also he said they had a fantastic "elan" and a discipline second to none. i guess I know what he ment when you see the commander in his cupola that black uniform even more so in the Tiger 1.I think their cause was disgusting and when i see anything about the Holocaust I feel less of a man, but just ordinary Tankers or soldiers they did look the part.I guess thats why I model german armour.
ShermiesRule
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Posted: Monday, January 17, 2005 - 08:28 AM UTC

Quoted Text

There is a healthy demand, however the weirdest fact (I picked up from another site) is that Tamiya's most successful kit is not the Panther or Tiger but their sandbag set...Jim :-)



Well there you go... more sandbags for everyone.
Snowhand
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Posted: Monday, January 17, 2005 - 09:13 AM UTC
Personally... I have absolutely no idea why people are specifically drawn to german subjects.. and to be honest.. i can't even recall when I actually did buy a German armoured vehicle. ( i did buy 2 softskins recently.. the tamiya 1/35 kubelwagen, their Horch 1a, and recently the revell 1/72 Famo )

To be honest, I haven't even made a Tiger or Panther in 1/35 ever in my life.. nor do I intent to.

eventually though.. for everything the Germans did throw at the allied forces.. they got something back in return....

Panzer IV - Sherman
Panther - Pershing
Tiger - Comet/ Centurion
Opel Blitz - GMC CCKW
Kubelwagen - Jeep
Schimmwagen - DUKW

and the list goes on and on....

eventually, the Germans wouldn't have been able to keep up research and production of newer vehicles, while in the US, research and development could continue unhindered... and I definately would like to see the results of that too in plastic ... forget the mammoth with the rodent name !!!!
drewgimpy
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Posted: Monday, January 17, 2005 - 09:34 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I am not sure more allied subjects wouldn't still keep "food on the table" considering there seems to be a long pent up demand for more plastic allied subjects.



I agree with you, it seems like there is a huge cry for more allied vehicles. My point was most companies do market research and go with what is going to make the most money. Maybe there is market research showing they will sell 5% more is it is a panther or tiger, and 5% is 5%. Not that Allied vehicles won't make more, just not as high a margin. Now I will say I have no data or facts to say this is the case, but from a business standpoint is almost has to be or they wouldn't keep doing it.
ShermiesRule
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Posted: Monday, January 17, 2005 - 09:42 AM UTC
Another factor would be home market. Just because there is a large cry in the US and Europe for more allied, seems that over in Asia, German is way more preferred. One has to remember to look at all market regions, not just the one you belong.