Hi everyone,
I hope this is the right forum for this topic..if not I am sorry.
I just purchased a WWII German, double-sided postcard. On both sides Hiter is on board one of their ships and I am trying to see if there is any way of figuring out what ship this is. The postcard quality of the time is kind of grainy and I tried to remove some of the noise and moire from the scans.
On one side Hitler is posing with some of the crew beneath one of the big guns. On the other side Hitler is posing in front of one of the smaller guns with two other people and I am guessing that one of them would have to be the commander of the ship.
I have tried a little searching all ready but thought I would ask anyone here to see if by any chance of luck that you could help.
I know that at one time Hitler visited the Bismark but I am sure he visited more than that one ship. Also by some pictures of the Bismark that I have seen,..I havn't seen any of the smaller guns with only one barrel. The pics of the Bismark I find always have two barrels on the small guns.
Also...mostly hidden on the front of the small gun is a plate. It is possible to make out the last few letters of each line. Does anyone know if that would be the name of the ship on that plate or would that be totally unrelated?
Günther Lütjens was the commander on the Bismark at the time it was sunk and the gentleman standing on Hitler's left side sure looks a lot like him..at least to me.
But then again it is hard to make out real detail on the grainy postcard. I have no idea who the one on Hitler's right side is.
Can anyone help me out. I would be thrilled if I could identify the ship in this postcard.

Thanks everyone for looking and help,
Wayne

I did a little looking. I was trying to take the name off the sailors caps. The only one I can find that is close is the Panzerschiffe Deutschland which was a Pocket Battleship.

Here is the link of all named major ships.
http://www.feldgrau.com/majorships.html

Wish I could read those caps better. It looks like the first word ends in two f's and the second begins with a D. I don't see and e after the f's so my guess is probably wrong.

Hope this helps some how.

HastyP

Paul-- my two cents says that you correctly identified the vessel. I believe that the ship's name is visible on two of the caps.
DJ

Perhaps its the Lutzow... The first of the Deutschland class battleships.

"Originally named Deutschland, Lützow is the first capital ship built by post World War I Germany. In spite of restrictions by the Versailles Treaty, the ship was designed to "outrun anything it didn't outgun, and outgun anything it couldn't outrun.""

I know that the ship carried the name Deutschland for some time and was renamed prior to the war to save the embaressment of having a ship named after Germany sunk...

Also it would seem likely that as the first capital ship built after Versailles that Hitler would visit.

HI all and thanks so far for your input. This is getting interesting as heck to me.
I thought that that was words on the front of the caps but I just couldn't make any of it out but now that you mention it..the last word definately looks like Deutschland. The first word also very well resembles Panzerschiffe.

What about TheRedBarons input?? What he says does sound interesting and makes some sense too. But if the ship was just renamed as the Deutschland then would there be two words on the caps of the crew?
I have been searching with no luck so far even tho I know it can't be too difficult to find. But who were the commanders for each of the two ships? And if possible where to find some pics of the commanders. If I could find those and compare them to the two standing next to Hitler then I could have a pretty definite answer.
If one of the men beside Hitler is the commander..just who would the other guy be? Any ideas. Or does anyone recognize them at all?

As a second point of interest then... What would be on that plate on the front of the small caliber gun? Since they don't end with the same letters as the caps it won't be the name of the ship. Would it just be some kind of warning plate?

Thanks everyone so far,
Wayne

Whoops..
I just realized that I wasn't paying that good of attention on your link HastyP
The title on the page on the ship you mention is Panzerschiffe Deutschland / Lutzow. So it looks like this is the same ship that everyone has brought up. EXCELLENT!!
The page doesn't mention the name of the commander(s). Does anyone know who that would have been? ..and also the third guy next to Hitler?

Thanks everyone, I am thrilled to find the answer to this.
Wayne

It certainly looks like the Lutzow before it was renamed. I think it was renamed in 38. I will check the uniforms for you, that may well give a date... Some of the crew did continue to wear the Deutschland caps after it was renamed. I think I have a photo of a crewman in a cap on the renamed Lutzow.

If you want an ID on the officers I would suggest you post it here...

www.ww2forums.com

There are several KM historians on the site.

Regards

RED

Sorry not 38! But 1939!!!

"OCTOBER 1939

Atlantic and Indian Oceans - Pocket battleship "Graf Spee" claims four more merchant ships in the South Atlantic before heading into the southern Indian Ocean. Seven Allied hunting groups are formed in the Atlantic and one in the Indian Ocean to search for her. In total the Royal and French Navies deploy three capital ships, four aircraft carriers and 16 cruisers. Meanwhile sister ship "Deutschland", after accounting for two ships in the North Atlantic is ordered home. She reaches Germany in November and renamed "Lutzow"."

You may also wanna check this...

http://navalhistory.flixco.info/H/117737/8330/a0.htm

Its a list of Captains for the Deutschland/Lutzow.

Thanks again RedBaron,
I went the the WWII forums and got registered right away. That looks like a great site for a wealth of information!!!
Plus I came back to this thread and now you have the site for the commanders of the German ships. Wow!!! That is so cool. By your best guess... would you possibly place the picture in 1939 or maybe 1940 after the ship was renamed to the Lutzow? That would narrow the commander down to two or three different names. Which those would be either Robert Weber or August Thiele and then also Heller. Any guess as to who might be in the picture

Thanks so much,
Wayne

I am trying to guess a date by the KM uniforms.

Also I would have thought that a sailing trip by Hitler on the first Panzerschillffe would have attracted some interest by the propaganda machine...

Will have a look through the books tonight and post tomorrow.

I may well post on the other forum... But I will try and post in both incase you miss one!

Judging by the fact Hitler is on board i would think it was pre-war. Cant see him going out to sea in a big target like the Lutzow with a war on!!!

So that gives us a date from 1933 to September 1939...


RED

Red
If you see this before you go to the WWII forum I have added a pic and would like your opinion on what I have come up with. It is a collage of a few of the commanders faces pasted on the original postcard.
The only thing is that my reasoning of who I think it MIGHT be puts the postcard at around late 1939 to early 1940. Which is kind of arguable on that point because you make a good point of Hitler probably not wanting to be on the ship as a target during the war. And those years would be a very dangerous time in and around the Atlantic.

Wayne

Silly me
It just makes sense to post it here and get input here from everyone too. The more help the better
I think I might have come up with something but see what you think. I found some pics of a few of the commanders..Fanger, Wenneker, and Thiele. That is the order of when they commanded the Lutzow/Deutschland. Below I have pasted the faces of the three against the photo.
The one on Hitler's left I think I have the right guy. It really looks like Thiele to me. The on on Hitler's left is kind of tricky because the only pics I could find of Wenneker are from 1913 and 1989 which is around 25 years before and 50 years later than the postcard. I couldn't find one of him during the war yet. The pic of Fanger resembles the guy on the left but I think it makes more sense to be wenneker...
If the one on the right is Thiele then the commander before him was Wenneker which could make sense as to why both of them would be on the ship at the same time. Maybe this was around the time of the change over of command on this ship which would be around late 1939 to early 1940.
Since Wenneker was INBETWEEN Fanger and Thiele I just believe the one guy would be Wenneker.

Does any of this make any sense?? What do you think? Have I come close or does it really not look right yet?

I beleave I can say yes, the first photo is the Deutshland. There is several givaways, the names on the caps, the 11" main gun barrels, and the ships bridge windows. Each ship in this class had a different superstructure, the bridge in this photo is from the Deutshland itself. Now the second or lower photo. The Deutshland class were the only ships that carried the 5.9 " secondary single gun turrets, Like the one in the photo. The name plate on the turret does not say Deutshland, the lower word ends with ER. The only ship of this class ending with the ER would be the Admiral Sheer. But that dont explane the first word. could be it is not the ships name. Got me there!
By the way as a note, The Deutshland was renamed the Lutzow becouse Hitler did not like the thought of a ship named after his country being sunk! Strange mind!

HTH,

Garry

The name on the turret is the battery name, which were painted over when at war. IE 'Batterie...'

I think its Reader on the left and Wennecker(?) on the right, possibly during 1937. Trying to find out if the Deutschland was at Wilhelshaven in 1937 at the time of Hitlers visit.

Ship was renamed Lutzow after Graf Spee was sunk because Hitler didn't want to run risk of a ship with the name of the country being sunk. So if the hats say Deutschland, it is very early war or prewar picture