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Modeling in General
General discussions about modeling topics.
Figures, Armor and Contests
Tin_Can
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Posted: Monday, August 05, 2002 - 09:49 PM UTC
I have a hypothetical question regarding the addition of figures to pieces or armor and the categories they can be entered into for a contest.

If you want to enter a tank (M48 for example) into a contest, can it be entered into the 1/48 category if it is constructed with the crew figures (that came with the kit) in place as directed by the instructions or does it now fall into a diorama category? Can it be constructed with aftermarket figures?

At the IPMS Nationals, I can only remember one tank entry that had crew figures and that was the sandbag M4A1 Sherman you saw on the February 2002 cover of Fine Scale Modeler. Perhaps that answers the question. It just seems that that tank entry stood out among the others because of the depth of realism the figures added.
GunTruck
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Posted: Monday, August 05, 2002 - 10:17 PM UTC
You are allowed to enter the AFV into its category - and model the complete crew compliment without out it being classed a diorama.

Gunnie
Tin_Can
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Posted: Monday, August 05, 2002 - 10:19 PM UTC
Thanks Gunnie.
shiryon
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Posted: Monday, August 05, 2002 - 10:22 PM UTC
I know we judged a number of pieces with figures at AMPS 2 yrs. ago. I think so long as the vehicle was solitary ( no landscaping/setting) entering it waqs fine. We were told though to juddge the tank not the figures. You can check most of the judging rules at the AMPS homepage.

Josh WEingarten
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Tin_Can
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Posted: Monday, August 05, 2002 - 10:29 PM UTC

Quoted Text

We were told though to juddge the tank not the figures



Man, that could open a whole can of worms.
ukgeoff
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Posted: Monday, August 05, 2002 - 10:34 PM UTC
I.P.M.S. UK competition rules allow you to use the figures supplied with the kit AS LONG AS THEY ARE IN OR ON THE VEHICLE. Once saw a Tamiya Wespe entered in the standard AFV kit class disqualified because the modeller placed one of the supplied crew figures beside the vehicle.
GunTruck
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Posted: Monday, August 05, 2002 - 10:50 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

We were told though to juddge the tank not the figures



Man, that could open a whole can of worms.



It often does in local IPMS contests. A lot of the time, the concept is pushed to its limit, say for example a T-34 tank with a whole bunch of partisans modeled and mounted on the tank itself - like driving down the street. However, the base is plain wood or just the cloth covered table, the model stands alone. I've seen three takes on this situation:

1. - Judge the AFV alone. Good, if you could actually see the AFV under a bunch of figures. Ignoring the figures does a disservice to the builder not to take into account all the figure work adorning the AFV model - aren't they more like extra equipment and gear than figures in this situation?

2. - Judge the composition as a whole - figures and AFV - but not move it to the diorama class. Good - but an incredible inequity between it and the other AFV's in the category displayed similarly - in this example, closed top. Which model do you think already has a leg up?

3. - Move the miniature to the Diorama category because of the additional numbers of figures that aren't part of the normal "crew" compliment of the T-34. Good - but equally unequal situation as now this miniature is lumped together with elaborate settings and compositions to support the central AFV(s) - where it has none.

This is a "no-fun" situation anyway you look at it. The hardest thing a judging team has to do is to try and level the playing field as best they can with what's presented them. Time and time again I hear judges panned for the decisions they make, but rarely if ever do I hear anyone point out how hard it is to try and get every piece considered fairly and equally with all others on that table. Rarely, will everything work out perfectly...

Gunnie
Tin_Can
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Posted: Monday, August 05, 2002 - 10:56 PM UTC
Great insight Gunnie...thanks.
shiryon
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Posted: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 04:00 AM UTC
It may behoove contest organizers to put in a sub catagory or build the vehicle without figures get it judged and bring it next time around with figures just to show. I like the way the do the intake at AMPS, experienced judges and modellers assist builders in choosing catagories. So you are clearly warned of the problems of each choice.

Ther are always those that feel shorted by judging. Amps seems the best I've seen but no matter how fair you make it it still comes down to (some number ) judges who by virtue of being human are subjective. The best I can reccomend anyone entering any competition,READ THE RULES AND READ THE RULES. IT's the only way not to get shorted by being in the wrong category. and remember it's a hobby your next meal doesn't depend on it.

Josh Weingarten
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sniper
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Posted: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 04:09 AM UTC
Being somewhat new to contests, I have a very naive question.

Instead of having the models compete against each other, why not base awards on the models themselves and a set of criteria?

OK, I know that there are Gold, Silver, etc. awarded but is it possible to have two golds or two bronzes in the same category? If not, would this be a bad thing?

Just wondering if contests are meant to be awards for achievement or rewarding the 'best of the lot.'

My experience comes from art and photography competions, both as a judge and competitior, and this is completely subjective. Although there are some specific things you can look at (quality, technical ability) it comes down to what works for the judge. And, we can't rule out bias for a particular entrant (even though names are hidden!).

Steve

Ranger74
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Posted: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 04:45 AM UTC
Sniper,

I believe that is how AMPS judges its contest, with added separation of contestants into several categories based on experience, so that a newcomer is competing with other newcomers and not against the masters.

Jeff
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