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Weathering help
jeremy47
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Posted: Saturday, May 01, 2004 - 02:32 AM UTC
hello modellers

bought a tamiya 1/35 M1a1 Abrams.

gonna do a woodland pattern for it's camo and i really need some help or tips for some weathering techniques! all help is APPRECIATED!



by d way how do you do a "wash"?
hehehe di ko tlga mgets kung pno un e...

thanks!!!! :-)
GIBeregovoy
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Posted: Saturday, May 01, 2004 - 04:07 PM UTC
Read the feature article on this site titled "Weathering Heresies." It's a good article to read about weathering and the like.

If you're doing a woodland camo pattern, may I suggest using three different paint types for it. Use a lacquer-based paint like Mr. Color for the more "numerous" color in the paint scheme (say, brown is the more dominant color, then use lacquer-based paint for this one). For the second more numerous, use enamel. For the least, use acrylic. The reason for this is that if you make mistakes with the camo pattern, the color can be easily wiped away without damaging the more numerous paint. Thus, say green is the base paint, when you paint brown over it and you paint an area where you don't want it to go, you can wipe it off with the appropriate thinner without damaging the base paint. I also recommend using gloss paint - it'll be easier removing unwanted paint of a different color if the base paint is a gloss as opposed to a flat, plus you can skip the clear coat-before-decal application step.

As for wash, there's no hard-and-fast rule with it, but I recommend using enamel thinner and enamel paint, or mineral spirits and oil paints for the wash. A wash's consistency is basically tinted thinner - not thinned paint (there's a difference). The color is generally a dark one, say dark brown, or near black.

Before applying the wash, ensure that the model is prepared by giving it a nice coat of lacquer clear gloss - whether the paint is already glossy or not. This could either be the clear gloss spray cans, clear gloss fired from an airbrush, or using Wipe-N-Shine and applied by airbrush. The reason for the clear gloss is that it not only protects the paint, it also makes the wash flow more easily. The reason why the clear coat should be lacquer based or Wipe-N-Shine is because the different properties will protect the base paint from being removed by excess wash - which is thinner. And the reason why it should be enamel or mineral spirits because if your wash is lacquer based, it'll ruin the model - whether it be clear coated or not.

I've read "conflicting rules" on doing a wash - broad brush then wipe versus small brush surgically applied on areas. What I do is the broad brush then wipe method - I've got shaky hands for the other method hehehehe. You just take your brush, dip it into the bottle containing the wash, and brush the surface of the model. The wash will deposit the nooks-and-crannies of the model. Any excess wash on the flat surfaces can be wiped off with tissue paper. Let the model dry after the wash then apply a clear flat for the drybrushing stage.

There are more experienced builders here who do good weathering. They'll pipe in soon.

Hope this helps.
Fritz
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Posted: Saturday, May 01, 2004 - 08:41 PM UTC
GI nailed it. That is what you need to do to "wash". After that you can "drybrush" the model. To do this, you simply need to get a broad brush (Sable broad brush to be safe), dip in some Enamel/Oil paint (basecoat color), wipe much of the excess in a tissue paper or something, then when all the paint is nearly gone just brush it in the model until you will see that highlights have been made. After you've drybrushed the whole thing do it again but this time add more white to lighten the basecoat & drybrush lighter so it would only catch the edges. Do it again but add more white & drybrush very lightly on the top parts of the tank to show the extreme highlights.
shonen_red
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Posted: Sunday, May 02, 2004 - 01:43 AM UTC
Ahhh... another guy in trouble of a wash. Hehehe... ako rin hirap dati. Thanks to GI's techie, natutunan ko sya. Based from my experience, washes should be darker than the base coat and darker base coat to black for Aircrafts. Also, in order to make a wash, seal the latest coating with a clear spray can. (Topcoat, Tamiya Clear basta wag FLAT/MATT). Para mas maganda, patuyuin mo sya ng about an hour or so. (Ako 10-15 mins lang hehehe). Tapos apply mo na yung wash mo. The clear coat acts as a protection and also to make the wash flow easier.
cardinal
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Posted: Sunday, May 02, 2004 - 02:24 AM UTC
The wash I use is made of the following stuff: artists' watercolor(the one in a tube), water, dishwashing liquid, & vinegar. The watercolor are very forgiving. If you're not happy with the wash that you've done you could always put your model under the tap & you're back to square one. Sepia color is my 'jack-of-all-trades' when it comes to washes.
The diswashing liquid helps in breaking the water surface tension, without it the liquid will tend to regroup itself into droplets over your painted model. A drop would be enough.
The vinegar helps to reduce the tendency of washes to leave hard edged demarcations once it dries. A couple of drops will be enough.
Then you'll need a container & a soft brush.
The mix: just a small amount of paint on the side of the container & slowly add it to the water/vinegar/dishwashing liquid solution.
I usually do a 'slap-it-all-over' application then I place my model over a paper towel to drain the excess wash. The one advantage of using this type of wash is that after you apply it & dried & you find that some areas are a bit darker you could always use a clean,soft, flat brush & a bit of water (or even saliva) to remove the excess(something impossible to do with dried acrylic or enamel based washes).
Hope this helps.
jeremy47
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Posted: Sunday, May 02, 2004 - 08:06 PM UTC
Wow!
THANKS!!!! gonna practice what you guys said. but not on the abrams hehe.

and so far... i dont know how to use oils. i mainly use enamels and acrylics and my models.
still a novice modeler!
warthog
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Posted: Sunday, May 02, 2004 - 08:11 PM UTC
For the wash, I use either oil (burnt umber) with odorless mineral spirits or thinned acrylic paint. Similar to what others stated earlier, I usually apply the wash after coating the subject with clear gloss...the cheapest is wipe n shine. Sometimes I do not remove the excess to simulate grime.

GIBeregovoy
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Posted: Sunday, May 02, 2004 - 11:04 PM UTC
Using oils for wash is no problem. Just add a bit of burnt umber or whatever appropriate dark color to the mineral spirit (enamel thinner would do just fine), and apply it like any other wash using a different paint type.

Now, using oils for figure painting is another thing, for which Fritz and Mondo will be able to tell you more about (I still suck at figures hehehehe).
jeremy47
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Posted: Monday, May 03, 2004 - 12:04 AM UTC
hhmmmm.. ok
i'll apply the gloss after the paint job? i mean the camo, weathering etc?
then its gonna look shiny isnt it? hehhehehe

sorry still confused..
jeremy47
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Posted: Monday, May 03, 2004 - 12:07 AM UTC
what are mineral spirits?

is burnt umber a color?
shonen_red
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Posted: Monday, May 03, 2004 - 12:46 AM UTC

Quoted Text

hhmmmm.. ok
i'll apply the gloss after the paint job? i mean the camo, weathering etc?
then its gonna look shiny isnt it? hehhehehe

sorry still confused..



Yep... after adding the clear coat, apply the wash and seal it off with a flat coat. That way, the shine will tone down.


Quoted Text

is burnt umber a color?



Somewaht inbetween brown- dark brown color. Try checking your Crayola. There should be a burnt umber there.
GIBeregovoy
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Posted: Monday, May 03, 2004 - 10:03 AM UTC

Quoted Text

hhmmmm.. ok
i'll apply the gloss after the paint job? i mean the camo, weathering etc?
then its gonna look shiny isnt it? hehhehehe

sorry still confused..



Basically it's:

Paint
Clear gloss
decals
Clear gloss
Wash
Clear flat (if military)
Dry brush

The clear flat coat after dry brush is "optional" (if you're using pastels for dry brushing, the dust will just fly off by the pressure of the spray can/airbrush - so I've heard - I haven't tried dry brushing with pastels, so I dunno really.) The clear gloss after decals and before wash is there to protect the decals from weathering as well as making the wash flow better.

Re:mineral spirits, this is really thinner used by artists, normally used to thin oil paint - although regular enamel thinner can do the job as well from what i've experienced. One mineral spirit is turpentine IIRC. BTW, too much of this CAN eat through the layers of clear coats and paint - trust me, it has happened to me - so use this sparingly. The turpentine I used before cost a whole lot much than enamel thinner, and the smell was a bit unpleasant - but not as unpleasant as lacquer thinner.
jeremy47
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Posted: Monday, May 03, 2004 - 12:59 PM UTC
hmmm ok i get d point now
how do you dry brush?
what type of clear coat you recommend? i have here tamiya enamel gloss i, though wala pang flat.
blitz
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Posted: Monday, May 03, 2004 - 03:39 PM UTC
Hey Jeremy,
I recommend enamels or better yet oil paints for drybrushing. A broad brush such as Tamiya flat brush have soft bristles these will give you a "soft" and "subtle" effect . Dry-brushing is also very hard on brushes so be sure to clean it after use.
Just dip your brush in the paint. And wipe off the excess paint with a rag or an old towel, I wouldn't recommend a paper towel. Be sure that your brush is not loaded leave at least 10% paint on your brush. Be sure to test it on a scrap of paper. And if you are ready you can start scrubbing the brush across the surface very lightly. If you see brushstrokes you have too much paint in your brush. So just remember that less is better in dry-brushing because another problem you might encounter is accidentally getting the paint in the recesses. So start building up lightly
Good Luck
warthog
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Posted: Monday, May 03, 2004 - 08:05 PM UTC
For clear flat I use the following acrylic paints ( I use acrylic because its easy to thin and clean -- just uses water or alcohol; green cross will do)
1) Gunze - They have a pre-mixed flat and also a clear gloss
2) Tamiya - combination of X-22 (clear) and x-21(flat base)
mix:
X-22 (10) : X-21 (1)...semi-gloss
X-22 (10) : X-21 (2)...satin finish
X-22 (10) : X-21 (3)...almost perfectly flat
3) Krylon Matt Finish - for falt coats - easy to apply spray paint that can be bought in NBS; use appropriate protection when spraying because of the ordor and vapors

shonen_red
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Posted: Monday, May 03, 2004 - 08:51 PM UTC
Ano ba itsura ng satin finish? Madalas ko tong nababasa sa FSM eh.
rysorne
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Posted: Monday, May 03, 2004 - 09:33 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Ano ba itsura ng satin finish? Madalas ko tong nababasa sa FSM eh.

Satin finish its a little bit glossy compare to matt finish and I think Humbrol have it.
shonen_red
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Posted: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 01:20 AM UTC

Quoted Text

:-H Satin finish its a little bit glossy compare to matt finish and I think Humbrol have it.



How does this differ from semi-gloss?
jeremy47
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Posted: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 05:01 AM UTC
ok... now iv;e decided not to sell my mcv to test washing nad drybrushing, not gonna do it at my abrams... not yet.

what effect does drybushing do?
what paint(color) should i use for drybushing? does it depend on the color my model has?
blitz
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Posted: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 07:50 AM UTC

Quoted Text

what effect does drybushing do?
what paint(color) should i use for drybushing? does it depend on the color my model has?



Well basically dry-brushing highlights the details and edges of the model. Since we're working in small scales. we have to exaggerate it a bit.
Another good thing about dry-brushing is it give you a worn look on your subject.
So you're right it really depend on your base color so make it lighter... Most common colors I use for dry-brushing are Titanium White and Sap Green
warthog
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Posted: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 12:12 PM UTC

Quoted Text

what effect does drybushing do?
what paint(color) should i use for drybushing? does it depend on the color my model has



In addition to the what Blitz stated, Dry Brushing accentuates the high points/edges of a model in terms of lighting effect in addition to wear and tear look. For dry brushing I normally dillute the base color with white to lighten. Dry brushing can also be used to show the metallic parts of chipped or worn armor. Pencil lead/graphite can also be dry brushed to metallic parts...


Quoted Text

How does this differ from semi-gloss?



Semi-gloss is comparable to satin finish...for a good comparison go to a photo developing shop and ask for the gloss and sating finish that they have.


jeremy47
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Posted: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 04:04 PM UTC
ok to sum it all up, this how you do it.

paint then clear gloss, place the decals, then coat with gloss again, then the wash, and then coat it with clear flat, then finally the drybrushing.
if my base color is brown? then i shall mix brown with white for drybrushing?
or for olive drab? mix it with white too?

can i apply this wash to with ships, planes and figures too?

:-)
shonen_red
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Posted: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 05:15 PM UTC

Quoted Text

ok to sum it all up, this how you do it.

paint then clear gloss, place the decals, then coat with gloss again, then the wash, and then coat it with clear flat, then finally the drybrushing.
if my base color is brown? then i shall mix brown with white for drybrushing?
or for olive drab? mix it with white too?

can i apply this wash to with ships, planes and figures too?

:-)



You're doing it right. One nitty pick, the flat coat should be the last step. Everything should be done first before sealing it. Brown + white is ok when your base coat is brown.

Yep, wash can be applied to anything you like. Just make sure to check reference photos before adding that wash of yours.
mondo
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Posted: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 08:56 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

:-H Satin finish its a little bit glossy compare to matt finish and I think Humbrol have it.



How does this differ from semi-gloss?



It's more like in the middle of semi-gloss and matt. the large scale figures I do have satin finishes. Especially for the flesh parts like faces and hands. It gives it a glow but not a shine. Even the spiderman I did is satin finished with HUMBROL. It doesn't kill the color.
rysorne
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Posted: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 10:00 PM UTC

Quoted Text

ok... now iv;e decided not to sell my mcv to test washing nad drybrushing, not gonna do it at my abrams... not yet.

what effect does drybushing do?
what paint(color) should i use for drybushing? does it depend on the color my model has?

My ideal choice is chrome silver for drybrushing especially in cockpit, control or instrument panels.
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