_GOTOBOTTOM
Modeling in General: Advice on...
Need some general advice? Place it here.
Frustrated modeler
Wolf-Leader
Visit this Community
New Hampshire, United States
Member Since: June 06, 2002
entire network: 1,225 Posts
KitMaker Network: 463 Posts
Posted: Sunday, December 23, 2018 - 10:23 AM UTC
Now I have been building models now since I was 7, which is a very long time. So being a veteran modeler I know how to whether I know how to build I've competed in many many model competitions. I've built many a good models Super detail them you name it I've done it when it comes to building models in terms of super detailing. I mainly build in 1/72 scale.
Like many of us, we've done our share of airbrushing as well as have had many airbrushes until we find the one that we enjoy. But the problem I have is I'm on my 3rd Iwata airbrush I love the detail that it gives me, right down to to a fine tip pencil the is the lines I can get with this brush. I've had 2 Iwata airbrushes and it seems that they work awesome in the beginning, but after about a Year's worth of using them it seems like all hell breaks loose with them. I mixed the paints with thinners accordingly sometimes a little more thinner than paint and they spray fine,I clean it out change to a different color, and next thing you know it I don't even recognize my brush! It literally seems like it's possessed!I don't do anything different than I would normally do and next thing you know it it sprays fine and next it doesn't and all of a sudden it's like it sneezes right onto your model a big blotch of paint!
so now I have to strip my model down and start all over again, which at this point with all the photo which I would have on it just pisses me off! So at this time I'm not really sure what to do anymore I have gotten rid of about a third of my kits because I'm just sick and tired of paying out $100-$200 for an airbrush that basically just doesn't last more than a year even after each use, I thoroughly Field Strip my brush to clean it! so it's not the cleaning or the lack of cleaning that is the problem. Also I don't think it's the mixture of paint ratio to thinner, because I've called Tamiya about it and when I use lifecolor acrylic paints, I get the same problems. I called their company, they tell me the same thing, I'm not doing anything wrong either.
So I would like to know, what the hell I should do? It is very frustrating for me to build models but knowing that I have to airbrush it's very much a deterrent to do so.
So as a final note, I would like each and everyone of you to give me some advice on which particular dual action airbrush that works, with find detail. I would just like to have an airbrush that I don't have to worry about falling apart or not working properly after only 5 or 6 uses!
So if you can give me some suggestions on what are brushes I could get and try to use cuz I'm getting rid of these I want us I'm just going to probably throw them away I don't know I'm very very frustrated right now. So any suggestions will be of great help, thank you.
retiredyank
Visit this Community
Arkansas, United States
Member Since: June 29, 2009
entire network: 11,610 Posts
KitMaker Network: 3,657 Posts
Posted: Sunday, December 23, 2018 - 10:34 AM UTC
I've used Iwata brushes, before. This was some five years ago. I have been using Badger's Renegade Krome for several years and am quite happy with them(I have two). I field strip them, every 5-6 spray sessions. If you have any problems, you can send to brush to Badger to be fixed/cleaned(cleaned for free). I have the occasional problem, but nothing more than changing either the reduction or field stripping them can't cure. As well, I have a set-up from fine to heavy spray patterns.
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberDirector of Member Services
KITMAKER NETWORK
Visit this Community
Stockholm, Sweden
Member Since: November 29, 2006
entire network: 6,693 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,042 Posts
Posted: Sunday, December 23, 2018 - 10:40 AM UTC
Hi Jody,
Have you tried replacing the needle and tip?

How do you clean the needle and tip when you clean the airbrush?

/ Robin
kevinekstrom
Visit this Community
Illinois, United States
Member Since: December 08, 2017
entire network: 82 Posts
KitMaker Network: 57 Posts
Posted: Sunday, December 23, 2018 - 10:48 AM UTC
Well, if the issue is with your guns perhaps sending them to Iwata for a tune up every now and again may help. I'm not sure how well Iwata's customer service is, but I don't see a reason why they wouldn't tune up your guns as needed.

Also, your problem sounds a lot like tip dry. This happens a lot with Vallejo paints. You need to keep the tip clean at all times.

I've been using Badger for years simply because their customer service is fantastic and they have a lifetime warranty. I've had issues with some of my Badgers in the past but I simply sent them in and they came back like brand new. they were even nice enough to toss in an extra needle here and there, sometimes other little odds and ends such as air caps and such.

Most airbrushes in similar price ranges will perform just like any other gun in it's range. I have seen this from Richpen, Badger, Precision Aire, and Grex. All the guns priced in a similar range basically performed no different than the other brands in that price range. It becomes a matter of feel and balance ( the comfort zone ).

I decided many years ago to chose my guns by comfort and customer service. Badger won out for me because they are basically in my backyard and once again, the service is second to none.
Scarred
Visit this Community
Washington, United States
Member Since: March 11, 2016
entire network: 1,792 Posts
KitMaker Network: 482 Posts
Posted: Sunday, December 23, 2018 - 10:51 AM UTC
I'm running a Grex Tritium TS3. Main reason I went with it was the trigger and you could switch which side you mount the paint cups on. I'm a lefthander in a right hand world so I had to either learn to use my right hand for painting because the paint cups were in the way or had to use a uncomfortable grip to avoid the paint cup to use my left hand. But the TS3 is a wonderful airbrush. Excellent control, paint flow, easy cleanup, comfortable. It's literally point and shoot. Handles enamels, lacquers and acrylics with ease. It came with the .3 needle and it does fineline and large area very well. Maintenance is a breeze. For really fine I'll probably get the .2 needle set but so far I haven't needed it.
Kevlar06
Visit this Community
Washington, United States
Member Since: March 15, 2009
entire network: 3,670 Posts
KitMaker Network: 527 Posts
Posted: Sunday, December 23, 2018 - 11:46 AM UTC
Well, a bit of advice from another "well seasoned" (as in old) modeler who's been building since 1959 and using an airbrush since about 1964-- you will have good days and bad days, that's part of model building, and our hobby is very much based on patience. That being said, I use three airbrushed and have been using the same three for about 15 years now, without serious issues-- a Peak C-5, a Paasche Millenium, and a Badger IL. I've seen many folks who swear by Iwatas, but I've seen an equal number who have issues with them. But your problems could go beyond the brush in your hand, and might also be related to air supply issues, needle issues or even old paint issues. Are you using a compressor? Does it have a tank? If it does have you drained the tank lately? Do you live in a humid climate? Is there water in your airbrush line? Is your paint thoroughly mixed? Are you using the correct thinners? You could be experiencing any number of issues either related to the airbrush itself, or to the air supply. Some paints are more suited to airbrushing than others (Tamiya is a good start, as are MM enamels), I've heard Lifecolor is particularly difficult to airbrush under humid conditions. How clean are you really getting your brush? Do you run thinner (what type?) through your brush between paints? Do you clean your brush after every paint session? All of these factors could be contributing to your problems, you probably need to do some experimenting to find out. I used to teach airbrushing 101 at the LHS where I worked-- I found 9 out of 10 times that airbrush problems are often related to cleanliness-- and even when I thought mine was clean, there was a minute particle of dirt in either the air delivery or paint mixing sections. Pulsating compressors can be a problem to. So tell us specifically what you use, how you use it, and maybe we can help with an answer.
VR, Russ
PRH001
Visit this Community
New Mexico, United States
Member Since: June 16, 2014
entire network: 681 Posts
KitMaker Network: 64 Posts
Posted: Sunday, December 23, 2018 - 05:53 PM UTC
Jody,
If you can tell us what brushes you are using, we can probably provide a viable alternative, from a different manufacturer. I have an pretty large collection of new and old airbrushes from Badger, Iwata, Thayer & Chandler, Olympos, Harder & Steenbeck, Tamiya, Paasche, Grex, Aerograph, Procon Boy and Wold. Depending on the type of brush, they each have their shortfalls, and advantages.

I can tell you that almost all tasks can be accomplished with tools from any competent manufacturer and the newest airbrushes rarely do anything that the older ones canít.

In my case, most of my spraying is done with a Harder & Steenbeck Infinity, a Badger Renegade Velocity, a Badger Patriot Fine and an Iwata Micron B. None of the other six Iwatas I have fit my hand well with the onset of arthritis, but all spray reliably and well. All of the ones I just mentioned are reliable and easy to clean, though the Micron is more of a challenge than the others and is much more touchy when it gets dirty.

Hopefully, someone in this group can quickly provide a good suggestion that works well for you.

Cheers,
Paul H



varanusk
Staff MemberManaging Editor
ARMORAMA
Visit this Community
Santa Cruz de Tenerife, Spain / EspaŮa
Member Since: July 04, 2013
entire network: 1,288 Posts
KitMaker Network: 337 Posts
Posted: Sunday, December 23, 2018 - 11:30 PM UTC
Iwata is one of the top brands so for me it is strange that it last only about one year. It may be a problem of dried paint accumulation, or damage while cleaning.

I would advise an in-depth cleaning, specially nozzle (and needle) with a strong solvent after removing the seals.

That said, I have a Hard & Steenbeck and I am pretty happy wiht it.
Wolf-Leader
Visit this Community
New Hampshire, United States
Member Since: June 06, 2002
entire network: 1,225 Posts
KitMaker Network: 463 Posts
Posted: Monday, December 24, 2018 - 04:11 AM UTC
I use the Iwata CS and BCS models of airbrushes. I really like them it's just very frustrating and this is happening to both of them so I'm not sure if it's just the brand or what? I've also heard from a couple of people that it could be a possibility that the taper of the Iwata needle is not as fine of a tapir as other brands of airbrushes and that could be why you could be having your issues that you are having.
Kevlar06
Visit this Community
Washington, United States
Member Since: March 15, 2009
entire network: 3,670 Posts
KitMaker Network: 527 Posts
Posted: Monday, December 24, 2018 - 04:45 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I use the Iwata CS and BCS models of airbrushes. I really like them it's just very frustrating and this is happening to both of them so I'm not sure if it's just the brand or what? I've also heard from a couple of people that it could be a possibility that the taper of the Iwata needle is not as fine of a tapir as other brands of airbrushes and that could be why you could be having your issues that you are having.




Again, the fact you're having almost identical issues with both airbrushes points at the possibility of other problems in your system-- possibly air supply. I'd take a look at the air delivery system for sure in this case.
VR, Russ
PRH001
Visit this Community
New Mexico, United States
Member Since: June 16, 2014
entire network: 681 Posts
KitMaker Network: 64 Posts
Posted: Monday, December 24, 2018 - 05:51 AM UTC
I re-read your original post and I do have one observation. You spray both tamiya and lifecolor paints and they are not compatible. Tamiya is more acrylic lacquer while lifecolor is a true acrylic. In my experience, I have problems spraying either when Iíve sprayed the other through the brush. The lifecolor congeals immediately if it goes through a brush that last sprayed Tamiya and the Tamiya spits chunks until very last vestige of lifecolor is gone. I have to clean these brushes very well and let them completely dry before they go back to performing normally. Iíve seen people who have brushes they use only for one type of paint to prevent those headaches. I think that a little extreme, but everyone has their own way of doing things.

If youíve checked the nozzle for cracks and the needle for bends, Iíd recommend you try cleaning the brushes thoroughly, including the needle packing (to prevent re-contamination) and stick to one paint for a couple of weeks and see if your problem goes away.

If not, the Harder & Steenbeck Evolution and the Badger Renegade Velocity or Krome are great brushes at or below the price you paid for the Iwata brushes you have.
PRH001
Visit this Community
New Mexico, United States
Member Since: June 16, 2014
entire network: 681 Posts
KitMaker Network: 64 Posts
Posted: Monday, December 24, 2018 - 06:07 AM UTC
One, other thing. If you use the brushes to spray Future, this will only multiply your problems. The only thing that Iíve found that really gets Future out of your airbrush is soaking the paint passages and head in Createx Airbrush Restorer for 30 minutes or so and recleaning the brush. This stuff works well for removing old paints and coatings but you should not spray it, you rinse it out with water and you should never let it get in the air valve as it will break down the rubber seals used there.

Hope this helps,
Paul H
ernietheviking
Visit this Community
United Kingdom
Member Since: January 15, 2010
entire network: 13 Posts
KitMaker Network: 3 Posts
Posted: Monday, December 24, 2018 - 06:28 AM UTC
I have many Iwata Airbrushes , one needs new seals but the others are ok ... unless I forget that I just put Tamiya paint through it and then spray Vajello, Lifecolor or Hataka through it arrrrghhh !!!!
Lifecolor and Vajello work very well with lots of flow enhancer and well mixed paint. Note .. Lifecolor needs either a mist coat or primer - horror story on bare plastic.
Never had any problem spraying inks, Tamiya or enamels but never - never - never mix tamiya paint or thinner with Lifcolor (funnily enough Vajello will thin with Tamiya thinner ok) - gloopy gumbed up airbrush is the result.
Wolf-Leader
Visit this Community
New Hampshire, United States
Member Since: June 06, 2002
entire network: 1,225 Posts
KitMaker Network: 463 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 25, 2018 - 08:20 AM UTC
To make any misunderstandings clear,I don't mix tamiya and lifecolor acrylic paints together. I use tamiya paints,then I clean my brush,then I use lifecolor paints.
Worse case scenario I will have to replace all the gasgates,sorry misspelled it.if that doesn't work then I'll have to buy a new air compressor.
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberDirector of Member Services
KITMAKER NETWORK
Visit this Community
Stockholm, Sweden
Member Since: November 29, 2006
entire network: 6,693 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,042 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 25, 2018 - 08:53 AM UTC
Could you do one test for me please?
Spray coloured water on white paper (coke, dark coffee, kids water colours or similar) and check how it behaves.

Why do you suspect compressor issues?
/ Robin
Wolf-Leader
Visit this Community
New Hampshire, United States
Member Since: June 06, 2002
entire network: 1,225 Posts
KitMaker Network: 463 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 25, 2018 - 10:54 AM UTC
Robin,
I will do the test,but it may a couple of days before I can get back with you. As for my suspicion of my air compressor,Kevlar06 suggests that it could be the air source.
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberDirector of Member Services
KITMAKER NETWORK
Visit this Community
Stockholm, Sweden
Member Since: November 29, 2006
entire network: 6,693 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,042 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 25, 2018 - 12:13 PM UTC
A compressor problem would be visible with the "coloured water" test as well. The idea is to eliminate the paint and thinning of paint from the problem. If the problem occurs with the "coloured water" then it is something with the airbrush or the air supply.
/ Robin
kevinekstrom
Visit this Community
Illinois, United States
Member Since: December 08, 2017
entire network: 82 Posts
KitMaker Network: 57 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 25, 2018 - 12:34 PM UTC

Quoted Text

A compressor problem would be visible with the "coloured water" test as well. The idea is to eliminate the paint and thinning of paint from the problem. If the problem occurs with the "coloured water" then it is something with the airbrush or the air supply.
/ Robin



His compressor may be pulsing some air through instead of an even flow, Compressors are known to do this on occasion. But yes, eliminating the smaller issues is a must, then move on.
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberDirector of Member Services
KITMAKER NETWORK
Visit this Community
Stockholm, Sweden
Member Since: November 29, 2006
entire network: 6,693 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,042 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 25, 2018 - 12:50 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

A compressor problem would be visible with the "coloured water" test as well. The idea is to eliminate the paint and thinning of paint from the problem. If the problem occurs with the "coloured water" then it is something with the airbrush or the air supply.
/ Robin



His compressor may be pulsing some air through instead of an even flow, Compressors are known to do this on occasion. But yes, eliminating the smaller issues is a must, then move on.



Wonky pressure reduction valve could be one cause of problems. I have replaced the one on my compressor.
Pulsations would be visible in the spray pattern using "coloured water".
/ Robin
Wolf-Leader
Visit this Community
New Hampshire, United States
Member Since: June 06, 2002
entire network: 1,225 Posts
KitMaker Network: 463 Posts
Posted: Thursday, December 27, 2018 - 02:07 AM UTC
I bought my air compressor from micro mark, approximately 20 years ago. It's a silent compressor I guess it's called. I'm at work right now so I can give you a definite name for it when I get home. That might help as well. Self contained Black Box.
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberDirector of Member Services
KITMAKER NETWORK
Visit this Community
Stockholm, Sweden
Member Since: November 29, 2006
entire network: 6,693 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,042 Posts
Posted: Thursday, December 27, 2018 - 02:57 AM UTC
Hi Jody,
In your original post you wrote this:
"I've had 2 Iwata airbrushes and it seems that they work awesome in the beginning, but after about a Year's worth of using them it seems like all hell breaks loose with them. I mixed the paints with thinners accordingly sometimes a little more thinner than paint and they spray fine,I clean it out change to a different color, and next thing you know it I don't even recognize my brush! It literally seems like it's possessed!I don't do anything different than I would normally do and next thing you know it it sprays fine and next it doesn't and all of a sudden it's like it sneezes right onto your model a big blotch of paint!"

When you clean it before changing colour, do you use some chemical or thinner that might be incompatible with the paint you are using? I know that this is probably a remote possibility but I am grabbing at straws now.
/ Robin
Wolf-Leader
Visit this Community
New Hampshire, United States
Member Since: June 06, 2002
entire network: 1,225 Posts
KitMaker Network: 463 Posts
Posted: Thursday, December 27, 2018 - 02:11 PM UTC
Robin,
When I break down my brush and thoroughly clean it I usually use lacquer thinner or a strong wine spirits to clean all my brushes. Afterwards, I let dry then use the lubrication they came with the brushes. Then I continued with the next color and then the next, until I'm done what's my project.
Wolf-Leader
Visit this Community
New Hampshire, United States
Member Since: June 06, 2002
entire network: 1,225 Posts
KitMaker Network: 463 Posts
Posted: Thursday, December 27, 2018 - 02:57 PM UTC
Robin,
Another thing to ponder, I use two types of paints 1.is the life color brand and I use their thinner and 2.I also use Tamiya paints. What for Tamiya paints I use denature alcohol and Dawn soap, only a couple of drops though.
Hope this helps.
Kevlar06
Visit this Community
Washington, United States
Member Since: March 15, 2009
entire network: 3,670 Posts
KitMaker Network: 527 Posts
Posted: Friday, December 28, 2018 - 03:56 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Robin,
Another thing to ponder, I use two types of paints 1.is the life color brand and I use their thinner and 2.I also use Tamiya paints. What for Tamiya paints I use denature alcohol and Dawn soap, only a couple of drops though.
Hope this helps.



I try to only use proprietary thinners with different manufacturers paints. For Tamiya, I only use Tamiya yellow cap thinner. I donít know what the seals in Iwata airbrushes are made of, if they are made of rubber, dish soap is the wrong additive to useó as most dish soap has a surfactant which will attack rubber over time. But I still think you have some issues in the air delivery systemó but if the air delivery system contains a rubber seal someplace, like in your trigger system, that could be the problem too. If you are using a tank compressor, and have never drained it in 20 years, thatís definitely an issue as well. I only use lacquer thinner to clean my air brushes, and have been doing so for over 30 years without any issuesó(but I donít let my airbrushes soak in them for more than a few minutesó longer periods will invite all kinds of issues with seals, and even chrome plating).
VR, Russ
Scrodes
Visit this Community
Ontario, Canada
Member Since: July 22, 2012
entire network: 771 Posts
KitMaker Network: 6 Posts
Posted: Friday, December 28, 2018 - 03:00 PM UTC
I've been using my Iwata CMC+ for the better part of a decade now without a problem aside from ones I've caused myself.


The most likely problem you're having is when you're stripping you airbrush you're pushing the needle back in too hard damaging the tip. We've all done it.

I also have an Aztek that's twenty years old and working... as well as an Aztek ever does.


I have never ever had an airbrush - dual action, single action, gravity or syphon feed die on me period.



I highly doubt the problem is with the paint as you've looked into that thoroughly.

If you're having spray problems it's probably tip dry or an air pressure issue.
 _GOTOTOP