I thought I would write this for the ones that help the rest of us out by doing photos of tanks to help us do a little extra detailing, and would like to be even more helpful. Now it is super to get in close to see just what is what. but there is something I have noticed, that I don't think the ones doing the photos realize, now don't get me wrong, I, and a whole lot more of us really appreciate you doing this, but try to remember, that most of us don't get the chance to go see a real tank up close, that all we get to see is the model. To what I'm getting at is, to when you do them real close ups, to every now and then do a shot back a little so the ones of us can reference to where it is coming from, see a lot of times I see a lot of details, but I have no idea what part of the tank it is that those pictures go to. Like now I'm doing the M107, and I'm going to webshots for reference, now I see a lot of electrical, and hydrulic lines, which is good, but where do they run to, if the photo was back just a little more I could see where they go, now it is OK for the one taking the pictures, cause they might remember, where they go, but for the ones of us that wasn't there, can't, now this is just my opinion, but if you would like to be more helpful to the rest of us, please try to remember this,or am I the only one that has any trouble with this.? Thank You for your time.

Kerry

Kerry,
You are so right. Fine, crisp, photos of details can be a boon of information to a modeler, or a bane if the viewer does not know where the details belong. In S & T (Scientific and Technological) photography the photographer should take successive shots going from a wide-angle view and ‘homing-in’ on the detail, so the analyst(s) (who are not always the subject matter experts) will know what they are looking at and where it belongs.

Also, a proper walk around will include successive photos starting with the foremost point of the subject in the center of the frame, and then have an ~ 10% overlap for each succeeding shot of the subject, ending up with the aft most portion centered on the last frame. This will be repeated for the profile view. Of course for model building purposes this much detail and effort is unnecessary. A single, wide angle, shot should suffice. A proper walk around should also include ¾ views from front and rear.

So, for all of you folks out there lucky enough to see the ‘real deal’ hardware and take pics--remember those amongst us, who pick models from the hobby store shelf because they look interesting, may not be the subject matter expert and need all the help we can get. This may mean taking an extra photo, but in these digital camera days that is nothing more than memory space.

Hmmmm...

Gunnie

I take hundreds of photos of dozens of pieces of military hardware. Nine out of ten times, when I photograph a vehicle, I do it for someone else. Not one or two photos, but literally a dozen or more of that vehicle. My digital camera holds either 17, 40 or 80 shots depending on photo quality. I usually use the 17 photo resolution.

I try to take photos of detail items that you wouldn't normally find in a book.

I freely admit my photography skills aren't anywhere near those of a photography enthusiast. My camera isn't the best quality either. I take photos when I have time, sometimes I make time or stay late.

You'd think modelers would be happy that they had free access to whatever photos I happen to take and upload. Instead, I become a target for fellow modelers. I do not believe I am alone in this. I think the person who ran Full Metal Jacket had to put up with the same type of abuse by similar people. Most of you probably do not realize how close I was to abandoning my motor pool gallery (see link below). As it is, I've decreased the amount of photos I add to the motor pool gallery to a sporadic trickle. It is just not worth any aggravation to do so and leads credence to the old saying, "no good deed goes unpunished."

If you need some M107 hull detail shots, my motor pool does have photographs of an M578 light recovery vehicle. This vehicle shares the same chassis with the M107/M110.

BTW, if you try some sentence structure or paragraphing, your comments may be easier to read.

Sabot..
you know i for one as with many others very much so appreciate your photos....you go out of your way to help us and it is GREATLY Appreaciated...not to mention the fact that you have an open house for us also....and there are many others that take the time to photograph subjects here..their time and effort is also appreciated...if people arent satisfied..ask about something or try takin your own photos....my 2 cents...Ray

I have to back up with the start of the topic. Some times it gets you much time to locate the super closeups on the vehicle or in the model to be build. I ve found more useful medium distance pictures that show a part off. I mean you see the details but also the surrounding and including part of the vehicle . Now if besides them the photographer was so kind on us that gaves us extra close ups after the medium distance pics i wont say no. But i also try when picturing to think that other people have to know to what i am refering to ..

4218 enlisted users on this site, I don't know how much visitors on this site, and I think 50% (maybe even a lot more) of those users and visitors are very thankfull of the few who have access to the "real stuff" and are willing to take the pics for us (guys who sometimes never ever seen a real tank or so, like myself)
So please Major, don't erase the pool just yet...
I understand the fact that it is sometimes of little help, when you have superdetail shots and you can't see where they belong to, but (and this is my humble opinion) isn't it impossible to super/super detail a model if you never ever seen one in real life? What's the point of superdetailing the electrical lines of a tank, if you haven't got the slightest idea what they are for...
For the builders among us who don't go into superdetailing, I think most of the pics are very helpfull, and the pics that may not be so helpfull will give you an idea of the rest of the subject...
So in case of Major Rob, who takes most of his pictures on request of the users of those pics, I don't think anyone should ask to do it different. And in case of the pics on Tanxheaven (as an example), I think there are so much pics to refference, we shouldn't complain and just be happy that there are pics...

I'm not trying to offend anyone, just wanted to say that we should be happy that there are guys willing to take the pics and use there webspace to post them for us, even if this sometimes means that they are (less) usefull...

I started this post to try to make people think, I'm sorry I'm no english major, I thought people wanted to help each other, and I kept saying over and over again how we appreciate the work they do. That I was just trying to point out, to what I think they are missing, now I have been an owner operator for 25 years, and had to work on my own all them years, so I know a little about mechanics. Lot more on mechanics then english. Now the tank will be different, but the basics will be the same on electrical, and hydraulics, you have your control, and you have your centrifugal, or piston ram that the hoses will hook to, the models have none, they have a few molded into the plastic, but that is it.
I was just trying to help you improve to help other people more, cause if you would have noticed this, I wouldn't of even written this, without knowing where it goes is the same as not having it at all. Maybe I never seen your pictures I have no idea, I just looked at the ones on webshot of the M107 and I cannot use them, cause the picture cuts off in the middle, and to where they take off again, I have no idea whether they are the same or different lines, but when photo is in close, and you don't have anything to reference it off of, what good is it.
I was just trying to get the ones taking pictures to remember to try to pull back once in a while so people can reference where the pictures are coming from. All I was trying to do was make it better for everybody. I'm sorry you have taken it the wrong way, I wished I knew how to write, but it wasn't until I got this computer I ever started to write anything outside of a logbook, can't you tell.

Hey don't apologise! We're all buddies here...
I think you even got some people thinking about the fact mentioned...

straightedge
Are you talking about my pics by any chance?

Actually, I think I made my point. You don't like being told that you have bad English usage. Those of us who do the modeling community a favor and upload photos don't like being told that we have bad photography skills.

Most of us aren't professional photographers. We aren't even photography enthusiasts. My hobby is model building. I am fortunate to have ready access to many pieces of current military hardware. Personal and professional activities take me on frequent trips to the Ft. Knox Patton Museum and Aberdeen Proving Grounds Ordnance Museum.

I try to do fellow modelers a service by taking photos and providing them for all to use. I understand your comments are not directed at me or the photos I take. All I'm trying to point out is be happy there are people who make these photographs available. They are better than nothing.

As far as the comment towards your English usage, here is a helpful hint: everytime you want to type the word "now", don't do it. Instead, hit the enter key twice and start a new paragraph. It will make reading your posts much easier.

If your the one that took the pictures on the M107 on webshots, you got enough to get a person interested, then the picture cuts off, a person has no idea where the hydraulic lines run, or connect on the other end. I see where they connect on one end then they go for just a little bit, then the picture ends, I can't remember one picture showing both ends. They were beautiful pictures, clear and everything, and if they had a couple pictures back a couple feet so I could reference them, they would be totally helpful, but the way they are, all I can do is connect a hose go a quarter inch, and cut it off, cause I have no idea where it goes to. If you was the one that took the pictures of the M107, then maybe to what I'm saying you might remember the next time you take pictures, to take one back a couple feet to reference from, then it will be helpful to everybody. I know I used to get carried away and forget that not everybody was there. I used to have a real hard time, cause I always thought everybody knew what I knew, it took me a while, but I finally come to understand that they don't, I never would make a good teacher, and I think that must of happened with some of you guys, cause without a reference we are lost, the photo wouldn't haft to be real clear on the reference just enough to let people know where it is at. I think there was a couple pictures that maybe just 6 inches back would of been enough to show what I needed, cause it looked so close, but I'm not sure.
The picture on the model box shows hoses, you can see them curl up, but to where they connect, the shade has it all blacked out, so that doesn't do me any good either.
I know you guys never meant to do this intentionally and I just brought this up so maybe the next time you guys take pictures you will think about how the others didn't get to see the tank in person. If you was the one that took the pictures of the M107, you done a real good job on the photos, and I'll bet the next time you'll even do a way better job

I enjoy all the work people do uploading pics to the site, I know its tendious-- I only had to scan pics from my dad's photo album and it was still a pain.

If you have a request, make it known, I'm sure anybody would be more than happy to help. Straightedge, Im sure if you simply asked for photos people would be happy to try and get what you need, I'm sure nobody had the intent of leading you along.

Sabot-- I'd just like to say thank you for the extra time you put in with taking the photos

Sean

i see no need to start an arguament,

straightedge, i understand your point, sometimes it can be frustrating if you cant find the pics you want, but appreciate these pictures are probably not always taken for the benifit of modellers, so they may not concentrate on particular details, they may just give a shot of a general area of the vehicle.

i find the best way is to ask for what you need here on the forums, someone usually has something of use.

sabot, whilst i have never used your pictures, as modern US isnt really one of my interests, your efforts are appreciated. if it wasnt for people taking the pictures, there wouldnt be any would there?

cheers

joe

My 2 cents...

As a photo taker, I try to get as much detail as I think necessary.

If you are using the photos as a reference for building, then you should be utilizing as many references as possible (books, manuals and blueprints) and should study those to become familiar with your subject. Then use the detail photos for clarification of specific areas. You are responsible for your time investment in research, not the people you are getting it from (in most cases on the internet, freely...)

As a modeler, I fully appreciate the efforts of those who contribute, with all things ranging from photos and diagrams to written recollections and how-tos. These are things that weren't available ten years ago to most of us, and I think sometimes we all take this for granted.

If there is something that I am missing because of lack of reference, I will either ad-lib it or omit it and not worry about it. If someone comes up and says "that's the wrong widget/color/whatever" and they don't offer the "correct" information (and have a way to substantiate it), I will most likely dismiss them as a blowhard killjoy and pay them little mind. If they do have what I need and offer it, I will graciously accept it. (9 times of 10 they can't substantiate their claim...)

Phew, off my soapbox.

Ef and Sabot, keep up the great work.

Straightedge I beleive th epics you are talking about might be on my shiryon webshots page.Anyway you exact problem has been discussed amongst those that take the pics for the IDF armour Group.

We are currently trying to come up with a basic photo SOP so to speak. unfortunately different vehicles require different shots. making any standard set hard to come up with. Also a Sabot mentioned depending on the capacity of the individuals camera the number of shots may be limited. My camera for instance uses compact flash cards, alllowing me some 650 pics at highest resolution when using a 512 MB card.

Sometimes it is real hard to write what you mean, I know they do a lot of hard work that they don't haft to, and for that reason, I was just trying to point out to pull the camera back a little every now and then so the people can appreciate all the hard work they have done.

Now a lot of times I've seen photos that were plain and I knew exactly what I was looking at, then I've seen others that I had no idea what so ever, or where it was at on the tank, cause there was no outstanding mark on the tank to reference off of on the photo.
I'd like for when everybody looks at their photos they can say not only are they good photos, but they have been of great help to them also. I was just writing this in hope in the future when somebody goes and takes pictures of a tank, they think about how they will be useful, if everybody puts thought in what they do, they do a lot better job, at least I do.

Now for instance if they were going to take pictures of a M 107, or 110 hydraulic lines they will think to take pictures that show both ends, so somebody will know how to detail a model using their pictures.
Now if they want to take the pictures just for themselves then that is OK to, I just thought if they wanted to share, and they wanted them to help, they would think of this, but they can do what ever they want, it's their camera. I hope this is a little clearer.

Now see I am trying the paragraph, is this any better, believe me I didn't get mad about anybody saying my writing is bad, cause it is true, and I know it, but I'm trying to improve.


Kerry