Well started looking for the three tanks I guess most common in Nam.

The M-48 and the M-60 and the Sheridan.

Question is who makes the best model of the M-48 and M-60.

I have the Sheridan.

Thanks all


Jeff

I've been eyeballing the new AFV Club M60A1 offering: AF35060. New tooling in 2015 and comes with goodies.

The AFV Club M60A1 is apparently the best of the available kits but none of them was in RVN. There were variants present but no gun tanks.

Dragon's M48 is decent but the wheels are a bit poor. AFV Club's link track is nice if you don't like Dragon's flexible stuff.

The M551 has been pretty poorly served in plastic and neither Tamiya's or Academy's is terribly good.

AFV Club makes a very nice Centurion 5/1 if you want to depict the contribution of Australian armour. ARVN also used the M41, of which Skybow made a decent kit (now available from AFV Club, I think).

PAVN used Type 59s and PT-76s among others if you want to tackle the opposition's kit.

AFV-club makes their own M41 that has ARVN markings. The former Skybow M41 is boxed as the M41G Nato and was retooled to the earlier fender configuration.

Dragon makes the M48A3 early and late versions and has the M67 flame tank announced.

AFV-club has announced the M728 CEV vehicle which was the only turreted M60 variant to see service in Vietnam. (I said turreted, I know the M60 AVLB was there too)

The Academy M551 builds up nice, but it only somewhat resembles the real thing. If you get one you could build it but never look at a picture or diagram of the real thing or you will start crying.

All good answers, thanks.








Jeff

I do not believe the M60 was used in Vietnam. The M88 was but not the M60. The M41 and M24 were used, mainly by the ARVN.

Go with an M110!

Doing that and a M-107.

But want an M -60 I think in Nam as in service in 1960.



Jeff

M42 Duster. I haven't seen a kit of one of but a lot of scratch builds.

Tamiya has a Duster kit.

The M60 was never used in Vietnam-- the M48 was the primary heavy tank, and the M551 Sheridan was the primary light recon tank.
VR, Russ

Tamiya's M42 is ancient and needs lots of work. However AFV Club makes a much more recent one which, while I haven't seen it, is likely to be far better.

There were definitely no M60 or M60A1 gun tanks sent to RVN. They were more useful in higher threat areas of the world, given the low probability of encountering PAVN armour.

AFV club has a beauty out.

Are you sure Russ?

I have the Academy Sheridan.

Okay then M48A1 it is.

I know I am going nuts buying Tanks again as I do own well over 120 kits including 5 in 1/6 scale.

But one can never have too many.

I think I will weed out some though.



Jeff

Not sure about M48A1 - definitely A3s though. Can't remember if any A2s were there but someone with greater experience of US armour in RVN would know.

M48A3 were used from the initial USMC armor deployment to the very end of the war. Some were captured and are on display in Vietnamese museums today. That is M48A3. M48A1 were already reserved for National Guard units or in the M48A3 conversion and update program.

A few M48A2 were rushed to Vietnam after Tet as replacements due to unexpected armor losses following the introduction of the RPG. Got to look close at the lack of air cleaner boxes, not necessarily only three return rollers as the M67 were originally built on M48A2 hulls and also had the three return rollers.

Jeff,
Yes, I'm sure the M60 was never used in Vietnam. You may be thinking of the M728 CEV based on the M60 hull that did make it to Vietnam in small numbers towards the end of the war. The US Army had the M48 in service before the advent of the M60, and all the units sent to Vietnam were equipped with the M48. It didn't make sense to send additional heavy tanks there because there was really no threat that couldn't be defeated by the M48's 90mm gun. There was no requirement for the 105mm armed M60-- they ended up in Europe opposing the Russian hordes of T54s, and T62s. Some other tracked weapons that made it over there beside the M48 were the M42 Duster as mentioned above, which had a successful supporting role in the Battle for Hue in 1968, the M88, the M56 Scorpion as used by the US Marines, the aforementioned M107 and M110, the flame version of the M48 ( my old mind wants to say M67, but I think I'm off) the M113, and various LVTP vehicles used by the Army and Marines. The French had the M24 Chaffee during the French Indochina period. the S. Vietnamese used mostly US supplied equipment. The Centurian made it there in Australian service, and the N. Vietnamese had the T54 and PT 76 in various configurations. If you can find the book "Vietnam Tracks" it's a great source of material on the armored and tracked vehicles used during the war.
VR, Russ

Thank you Russ and all the rest.

Seems I might wait awhile on it.

But M48A3 it is then.

Well-- why wait? -- I'm a former M-60A1 Tank Platoon Leader-- I got my AFV club kit as soon as they released it. It's a good one, and I understand Dragon's M60 is Ok-- it has a few issues as many late Dragon kits seem to have, but I've heard it's not too bad. I'd go for it anyway. You need something for those 'Nam veterans to come home to! Most of the senior NCOs And captains and above in my unit had been on either M48s or Sheridans in Vietnam.
VR, Russ

And if they went into the National Guard they might find their old M48 waiting for them but now re-built as an M48A5. We had a couple of Vietnam M48A3 tankers in my Guard unit who pointed out the RPG scars on the M48A5s. Even one patched partial penetration.

I hear the Sheridan had a lot of problems.



Jeff

The Sheridan did indeed have a lot of problems. Firstly, the Shillelagh missile system was expensive, and when initially fielded the electronics and laser range finder/IR sighting and guidance systems were not entirely reliable, especially in tropical environments. The 152mm gun system used an expendable case round, and an artillery style closing breech with an obturator seal, which caused endless problems. But therein lies another issue, the "Greyhound Bus" engine (almost the same as in the M113) really wasn't designed to take the abuse caused by the recoil of the conventional round of 152mm gun, which was what we used for training, because the missile was so expensive. Coupled with the weak armor protection of the aluminum inner hull, the Sheridan was not loved by its crews when it came to RPGs and mines. I'm not a Vietnam Sheridan Expert, but I do consider myself very knowledgeable on the later versions, since after I was an M60A1 platoon leader, I went over to the "dark side" and became an M551 platoon leader. My Sheridan's were constantly breaking down, maintenance and labor intensive, and I could always plan on losing 2-3 for one reason or another on every field problem. During an exercise in 1978, I lost all six of them in 2 days. Here's just a small sampling of problems I experienced during 18 months of platoon time:
--ob-longed obturator seals, causing the gun to jam, and powder spills, which were very dangerous.
--Commanders armored "teacup" (what we called the armor plate around the copula) shearing off-- taking the laser battery with it
--multiple sheared final drives
--blown "jugs" (cylinders-- happened every time we'd go to the field)
--tree branches poking through the outer aluminum skin (patched with the bottoms of #5 and #10 can's from the mess hall, depending on the size of the hole)
--accelerator cable separation at the engine control horn--we'd solve this problem by using WD1 commo wire from the back deck to the commanders copula, when the driver wanted to speed up or slow down he'd just tell the track commander!
This is just a small sample of the problems we'd have-- most of which could be traced back to that wicked recoil. I watched a brand new Sheridan burn up and melt into the hardstand at Grafenwhor in the summer of 1979, resulting from a turret fire caused by a ripped open round-- the thing just melted into a puddle of aluminum except for the gun, tracks, and engine block. Remember, it was designed to be an Armored Air transportable Reconnaissance Vehicle (AARV), not a tank-- but the Army liked to use it as such. I pity those tankers who had to ride one in Vietnam, and am glad I never had to face the Russian hordes in one.
VR, Russ

Well stated Russ, wonder how it got into the field with those problems.
I guess as not them behind the wheel , so to say.
I also heard that it would jump up when it fired and second and 4 th road wheel would leave the ground.
Don't know if true.


Jeff

I left that part out-- its true the second road wheel would leave the ground on occasion, and I witnessed that several times, but that was usually an indicator that a torsion bar was broken someplace. Since there were five road wheels, the fourth could really never come off the ground, but the recoil certainly gave that impression. It had several advantages-- it was fast, air transportable, and when the missile system worked properly, you could be sure of a first round hit every time. Remember, it was designed for the missile, had the Army stuck with that, it would have been an ideal scout vehicle. As much as I bad mouthed it above, I and I think most Sheridan crews had a fondness for it, ---when it was working.
VR, Russ

The vehicle itself was sound. Look how long Sheridans without the guns soldiered on at the NTC. Putting one of those low pressure 76 or 90mm guns on it might have been one way to go. Making it sort of an American version of the Scorpion/Scimitar.