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Airbrush problems-user error or crappy kit?
sunburnthammer
Member Since: August 29, 2007
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Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 - 08:19 PM UTC
Good afternoon all, I come to you feeling melancholy about airbrushing.

I have always aspired to build and paint great models, primarily 1/48 aircraft and 1/35 afv's. Historically airbrushes were always well out of my price range, the advent of cheap clones meant that I could get a couple of double action airbrushes and a compressor. I wouldn't say I have had any real success with these airbrushes and I am loathed to drop any serious money because of the following reasons. Is the kit I'm using crap, or am I the one making the mistakes.

I use Vallejo air acrylics and have real issues. Obviously the list of potential user errors is nearly infinite, is the needle seared correctly, is the paint thinned correctly, is the air pressure correct. I tend to have a really poor paint flow even when heavily thinned.I also notice that the paint builds up very quickly by the needle cap within a minute or less. I tend to tinker with the needle to get more paint through but think it makes the problem worse. This tends to be with 0.2 and 0.3 needles and nozzles, I tried a 0.5 thinking it would resolve the problem but it felt like the air flow was reduced with the larger needle.

Their doesn't appear to be any damage to the parts at all.

Do these sound like issues with poorly manufactured airbrushes or am I making the mistakes?

If it's me if anyone can point me in the direction of the most basic instruction I would be much appreciated.
SSGToms
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Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 - 09:36 PM UTC
Don't get down. It sounds like user error, and this isn't a load and shoot activity. It takes a while to learn. go here: howtoairbrush.com
SgtRam
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#197
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Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 - 11:26 PM UTC
What airbrush kit did you get? It does sound like the Aztek kit with the blue compressor. If so, I have plenty of issues with it myself a few years back. Mainly the issue I found was with the compressor, insufficient air pressure from it.

sunburnthammer
Member Since: August 29, 2007
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Posted: Thursday, April 14, 2016 - 01:05 AM UTC
I'm going to get reading on that website.

It's a iwata clone double action with a diaphragm type compressor
SgtRam
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#197
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Posted: Thursday, April 14, 2016 - 01:09 AM UTC
Is it a Neo? What air pressure are you using?
sunburnthammer
Member Since: August 29, 2007
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Posted: Thursday, April 14, 2016 - 01:35 AM UTC
It looks like a copy of the Hpc. Have started off at around 15 psi and try gradually increasing it up towards 30psi until I get any paint flowing
astursimmer
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Member Since: July 22, 2015
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Posted: Thursday, April 14, 2016 - 02:33 AM UTC
Airbrushing has a learning curve, as everything else.
But with vallejo paints it is worse....
I would rather suggest you develop your first skills and understanding with tamiya paint. It is forgiving and it permits you to test different thinning ratios and pressures, depending on the task. The big problem with vallejos is that you barely find a narrow working range pressure to thinning ratio where you spray without issues, and (murphy's law in ful power) that uses to be not exactly what you need. If you have troble with tamiya, you could have equipment problems
Nacho
Monte
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Posted: Thursday, April 14, 2016 - 08:00 AM UTC
Nacho, are you using "Vallejo Air" or their regular Vallejo paint thinned down? I'm having the same problems and it seems the only thing I can thin them down with is water.

I have yet to try the Vallejo Air paints, hopefully I'll better luck.
varanusk
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ARMORAMA
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Posted: Thursday, April 14, 2016 - 12:04 PM UTC
First I would recommend you an in-depth cleaning of the airbrush. You may have old residues, specially in the nozzle. If possible dismount it and the air cap, remove the rubber parts and submerge it in acetone.

Once you are sure everything is absolutely clean, it is a matter of practice...and it really takes time to experiment. Start with quite thin paint (as you may have read, like milk) and low pressure. Slowly pull the trigger back, you do not need a lot of paint: each pass does not paint, just adds a tint of the colour.

Finally, I have found that Vallejo Airbrush Flow Improver makes a big difference.

Hope this helps...
Karl187
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Posted: Thursday, April 14, 2016 - 03:36 PM UTC
Vallejo Air is actually quite simple to use, but as others have pointed out, there are a few niggles with it at first. Vallejo Air is very thin to begin with so there's no real need to thin it any further or even use flow enhancer. Just make sure it is thoroughly mixed before you apply it- perhaps even pop the cap off and give it a quick mix with a stirrer as well as shaking it before use. It should spray well even on low pressure settings- there shouldn't be any need to go very high. Some of the color pigments used in Vallejo Air can prove problematic. Their light grey, for instance, tends to be very thick and their white tends to be very thin. If it is thick then you might consider upping the air pressure a bit. If its thin then you need to build the color up in multiple thin layers- don't spray it on thick as it will only over-saturate and run off the surface. If you are getting build up of paint at the end of the needle there are two things you can do while you are spraying- one is to turn the brush away from the painting surface and give it a full blast- this should dislodge that build up and you should do this from time to time while air brushing to stop this build up. The second thing people sometimes do is have a cotton bud moistened with water to dab at the build-up and remove it- but be careful around the needle as you don't want to damage it.

I hope this helps a bit.
sunburnthammer
Member Since: August 29, 2007
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Posted: Thursday, April 14, 2016 - 04:35 PM UTC
Well I'm back to a 0.2mm nozzle as the larger snapped off, cheap pot metal.

Will go for another thorough clean, and have another go tonight utilising the techniques everyone has mentioned and let you know how it goes.

Fingers crossed
astursimmer
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Member Since: July 22, 2015
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Posted: Thursday, April 14, 2016 - 05:24 PM UTC
I talk of "Model Air" paints.
I have a bit of time now, I will extend my explanations:

I have a Harder&Steenbeck Evolution airbrush, I usually use the 0,2 mm nozzle.

First of all and critically important with Model air, also AK and Ammo paints: do not clean your airbrush with alcohol-or-the-like between colors. It may work depending on the alcohol type, but better use water. Alcohol is cheap and effective, but the small quantity of alcohol remaining in the airbrush after the cleaning, causes these paints to coagulate and this is the first reason for splattering and clogging. I had plenty of ugly test sessions with my first model air bottles, until I made the accidental discovery by just starting with Model air in a dry airbrush. I suddenly could "see the light" what had been the issue, checked it, reproduced it, and thatīs a problem. Clean with water!.
As other mentions also the good tip of cleaning your airbrush, it may well be that some of those coagulated residues, or others, are cumulating and causing a malfunction, going worse with every try.

Second:
To thin Model-Air you do not have to use this "whitish" thinner they sell. That is rubbish. You can put a bit of water or their new thinner with water-like appearance. They work. For basecoats it may work unthinned, for camo patterns I find the model air range OOTB too thick; I have to thin it, and lower the pressure. But you canīt thin model air too much; it is very sensible to excess water, it admits more of their water-like thinner without losing "cohesion".
Advantage of Tamiyas: Their thinning ability is unlimited (a best with lacquer thinner). You just have to lower the pressure accordingly, and here nobody can give you a tip. Trial & error, you will get it in your equipment.
For me the main problem with Model Air (same for AK, Ammo) is that the thinning range has a narrow working range, and air pressure too, both letīs say relatively independent of each other, thus reduce the "intersection" of ranges where it works and you must stay in this setting.

Third, the behaviour:
AS I said before you may get good basecoats with Model air, but being very careful with the thickness of the layer or the excess of thinner. Surface tension on a too wet surface can cause bubbles. This never happens with Tamiya.

When you want cammo patterns and effects, thatīs the key issue with MA, AK and Ammo. No matter what they say, their pigment grain size is bigger than Tamiya. I always can see with them the small grains, while with Tamiya I can go to an extremely thinned paint like 90% thinner, reduce the pressure to 0,5 bar or less, and I keep getting a nice fuzzy extremely slow build-up of paint, which is what you can need for small camo patterns. The usual working setting with MA, AK, Ammo is too high pressure, which guides to too much paint at once for narrow cammo patterns.

The almost impossible issue to avoid with MA, AK, Ammo, is the drop of paint drying in the aisbrush needle. You have to keep it clean, if not you will get more splatters, which are spit (Murphyīs law) when you are with the cammo pattern.


Now some will say me: "You may have more trouble with MA because of your 0,2 mm nozzle, thatīs too small for that paint". Well this may confirm my theory that the pigment grain size is bigger, and on the other hand if I have to use the 0,4mm nozzle I canīt ever dream of painting as thin cammo patterns as with Tamiyas.

Summarizing I see the Model air paints, same for AK or Ammo, force you to work like they want you to work, and I find this hateful for "ready-to use" products. You can get them working, they have nice colors, but they are too complicate for a beginner. For a beginner Tamiya is definitely more flexible. You choose how you want to paint, and it works.

By the way and to state it clearly: while they look like similar composition, Model Air is somehow of better behavior and results than AK or Ammo. According to my experience!.

By the way donīt you notice the huge contradiction in this ready-to-use paints, pre-thinned, to save you time, blabla, and you have to apply several very thin layers, letting time to dry inbetween , and this after having had to sacrifice 10 virgins and 20 goats to get it working ??

Nacho
sunburnthammer
Member Since: August 29, 2007
entire network: 17 Posts
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Posted: Friday, April 15, 2016 - 12:30 AM UTC
So I took on everything that has been said, and noted the issues relating to Vallejo air products.

Just had a bit of touching up to do with some Vallejo primer. Dropped the psi to sub 20 and removed the needle cap. I thinned the primer slightly with water too.

No problems. No heavy build up, no clogging, only had to dab the needle a couple of times.

Lesson learnt was to accept that you are only going to "tint" the model with one pass and that its a gradual process.

I'm going to persevere and develop and i succeed will treat myself to a genuine iwata in the future.

Next step is some panel line shading. Might revert to tamiya acrylics for this stage.

Thank you for all the advice.

Arnie
justsendit
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Posted: Friday, April 15, 2016 - 12:47 AM UTC

Quoted Text

... Finally, I have found that Vallejo Airbrush Flow Improver makes a big difference. ...



In addition, an easy way to deal with Vallejo paints ... use their thinner; it works much better than water — no problems since I started adding it ... even though many of their acrylics boast "no thinning necessary." HTH.
Airbrush Thinner (71.161)

—mike
easyco69
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Posted: Sunday, April 17, 2016 - 08:21 PM UTC
use tamiya in your airbrush & you will have no hassles.
Vallejo air in my experience is not "put in the airbrush & spray", you gotta thin it. Use their airbrush thinner + distilled water. Don't ask me why distilled..it just looks nice on paper lol. Actually using a retarder may help if your tip is drying up.
Make sure your compressor pressure is set correctly with a moisture trap.
Make sure you have the right needle combination. You should be able to spray very thin lines with low pressure. If the paint won't atomize without high pressure then your paint is too thick. Vice versa...don't thin it too much or it will just become a pool. Find the G spot.
I agree with Nacho..don't use alcohol to clean your airbrush between paints..use their airbrush cleaner or water. In fact, don't use alcohol with any Vallejo products . However..Tamiya paints love alcohol....booze!
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