The Americans were here in peace? They invaded our land in peace? If a guy with a gun enters your house with a locked and loaded gun but says "I come in peace", would you believe him? If that happened in my home I would gladly chop the guy to pieces if I were able to.
What I know was that the Philippines was sold to them Americans for $20 M. Essentially they just replaced the Spanish. Now if they gave us some sort of "civilization" as you would put it, it's usually because of business interests more than anything else.
Oh well, I'll not act "anti-American" here. What has been done has been done anyway.
Don't get me wrong. I don't hate America and what it stands for per se. I love American culture. I appreciate the American way of life.
However, my feelings for 9-11 are mixed. I loathe the terrorists for ramming the WTC. But if they targetted only the Pentagon, the White House, and Capitol Hill, I wouldn't have cringed, for these are valid politico-military targets.
Of course, what compounds it is the fact that the people that I really hate are the [auto-censored]s in Washington that have for more than a century put the pawns, them soldiers, in the field to carry out their interests. These pricks weren't hurt in Balangiga. These pricks didn't die in Vietnam. These pricks weren't ambushed in Iraq. It is the soldiers who die, thinking they are carrying out their duties in service for their country, but actually carry out their duties in service to those [censored]s.
Funny that the name of the gunship used for this is Apache. That's a name of a people the Americans exterminated so they can ransack that people's land. There can be no worse irony than that.

Ê

The Americans were here in peace? They invaded our land in peace? If a guy with a gun enters your house with a locked and loaded gun but says "I come in peace", would you believe him? If that happened in my home I would gladly chop the guy to pieces if I were able to.

What I know was that the Philippines was sold to them Americans for $20 M. Essentially they just replaced the Spanish. Now if they gave us some sort of "civilization" as you would put it, it's usually because of business interests more than anything else.

Oh well, I'll not act "anti-American" here. What has been done has been done anyway.

Don't get me wrong. I don't hate America and what it stands for per se. I love American culture. I appreciate the American way of life.

However, my feelings for 9-11 are mixed. I loathe the terrorists for ramming the WTC. But if they targetted only the Pentagon, the White House, and Capitol Hill, I wouldn't have cringed, for these are valid politico-military targets.

Of course, what compounds it is the fact that the people that I really hate are the assholes in Washington that have for more than a century put the pawns, them soldiers, in the field to carry out their interests. These pricks weren't hurt in Balangiga. These pricks didn't die in Vietnam. These pricks weren't ambushed in Iraq. It is the soldiers who die, thinking they are carrying out their duties in service for their country, but actually carry out their duties in service to those dickheads.

Funny that the name of the gunship used for this is Apache. That's a name of a people the Americans exterminated so they can ransack that people's land. There can be no worse irony than that.

have complete respect for American ( and whichever other countries soldiers ) who put their life on the line daily ( usually not for any grand design but for their buddies ).

What I cannot have any respect for is their current government's foreign policy. Basically a rehash of the old gunboat diplomacy they had at the turn of the century. I also cannot understand the fact that their public supports such a policy without question. A solitary superpower without checks and balances is a very dangerous thing.

Has anyone taken pause to think about the real reason for the American-led invasion of Iraq? I'm sure no one would have any courage to ask the president that question face-to-face (except perhaps his father or wife) just as no leader would dare ask him. What is evident is the invading forces still couldn't find WMD & probably never will. So was the reason simply to remove a tyrant?

If this is so, then no nation is safe from "the world's policeman".

Ever since WW2, wars & conflicts the USA has participated in has had a positive effect on their economy. The companies that supply the ordnance & materiel needed by their military machinery starts increasing production, eventually needing more people, more equipment, & so on. Was the exercise simply to prime or jump-start an economy that was slowly sliding into a depression?

You might've misread my post. The Americans that were massacred at Balangiga were AFAIK eating their lunch in peace. I speak of a definite, specific, time, not in general. Read my post again.

The USA was shopping for a colony, like all other powers at the time. You can't blame them. Hell, Germany and France had naval ships at Manila Bay during the Spanish-American War, obviously eyeing with much interest the developments in Manila. If they suspected that the US wasn't at all interested in Manila, one of them - particularly Germany - would've colonized us anyway. The Spanish were dead. It was either the USA, Germany, or France that was eager to colonize us. Apparently, the USA had a bigger fleet, and so beat Germany and France to the punch.

As to civilization, I did not imply the Yanks gave that to us. But answer the following queries:

a) How long were the Spaniards here?
b) How long were the Americans here?
c) What progress did Spain contribute in those long years of occupation?
d) What progress did the USA contribute in those short years of occupation?
e) How many revolts/insurgencies/massacres occured during the Spanish occupation? The American occupation?

I'll make it easier for you by answering my queries:

a) The Spaniards were here for 400 years.

b) The Americans were here for less than 100.

c) The Spaniards gave us Catholicism. Other than that, not much else. Education? Pfffffffft. See (d). They enslaved us for hundred of years, left us inutile, only the elite were respected and were able to educate their children. They raped our women, pillaged our resources, murdered our forefathers, all for God and Empire - all of that during those 400 years of occupation.

d) The Americans did not enslave the Filipinos after the Phil-Am War. They sent in teachers (remember SS Thomas I think?), they built infrastructure, educated the masses, made us a bustling archipelago - the envy of the Orient - gave us our first viable Constitution, helped us create a viable form of government (not those aborted ones during the Spanish Revolution of 1896). In under 60 years, that was more than what the Spanish can do in 400.

e.1) "Lots" is an understatement. Include the number of women friars raped in confession booths. Include the houses torched for simple disloyalty. Remember GOMBURZA - they didn't even have mercy on fellow priests, as long as they were natives, they were infidels. Too many to count.

e.2) The Phil-Am war was the only serious engagement. There were other, smaller brush fires. But in a few years, everything was pacified. Not so with the Spaniards.

See what I mean? Fine, they wanted our resources - what country doesn't? - but what did they give in return? Infrastructure, education, civil and human rights, a law that was not biased to the occupiers. It wasn't an all-grabs-no-give like the Belgians in the Congo (look at the Democratic Republic of Congo. Still a hell-hole). By far, among the colonizers of the era, the USA was the most "enlightened" among them. Rome was successful because she knew to govern her empire. The USA was like Rome at that time. The rest didn't give a damn. The Brits? Hell, we beat India and Pakistan as the first democratic state of Asia. They held on to HK till 1997. They left Malaya a few years after our independence. France had to be kicked out by the Vietnamese, their only fault was that they espoused communism and in those times, that was a main threat so the US had to act - with bloody results. The Dutch left E. Timor wide open for Indonesia's bloody occupation. Tell me now, were we much better off with the Americans than the rest? And don't go on blaming our current society's ills on the Yanks - that was our fault and Quezon's Curse.

Too late. You've acted enough of that here. "What has been done has been done."

However, my feelings for 9-11 are mixed. I loathe the terrorists for ramming the WTC. But if they targetted only the Pentagon, the White House, and Capitol Hill, I wouldn't have cringed, for these are valid politico-military targets.

Well, some of those "pricks" as you would call them were former soldiers, generals, and others. Remember, Powell was screaming for MEDEVAC in Vietnam. What's his stand in Iraq now? Some of these "pricks" are truly pricks. But some of them - like Powell - knew they had a job to do, and based on the intel (which was apparently faulty from the source), they had to act.

Uh huh. Riiiiiiiight. And here we are building plastic models of such things? Assuming I were truly "anti-American" then to be truly sincere, I'd not touch a single model of anything even remotely related to the US military. I'd rather build Soviet, Chinese, or French. Or, assuming I were a true pacifist, I wouldn't dabble in this hobby at all lest I be labeled a hypocrite.

I can't agree with you more. The Americans as I said in the other thread are too proud of themselves.

Heck, in the first place, why did Bin laden attack the U.S.? Not that I am happy with 9-11 but if the Yanks just didn't go too much inside of their affairs, those Terrorists won't even think about attacking.

Masasabi mong OA o kaya dinibdib masyado ng mga terorista yung pakikialam ng mag kano pero kung hindi lang naman naging mga dakilang pakialamero ang mga kano eh hindi naman siguro magkakaroon ng motibo ang mga terorista. Madalas talagang sobra na ang ginagawa ng mga terorista pero tulad ng sinabi ko, hindi nila gagawin iyon kung wala silang motibo.

It's really hard to justify the acts of the American gov't today since most of them are rooted from greed & pride.
Isa pa itong si Cavuto sa fox news. Sinasabi nya na walang utang na loob ang mga Europeans sa kanila dahil hindi sila sinuporta sa Iraq. Ang dahilan nya kasi ay noong WWII tinulungan daw nila ang mga Europeans. Oo na sige na malaki ang tinulong nyo at salamat sa inyo, walang Nazis ngayon na naghahasik ng lagim PERO kasi naman noong WWII eh may kaunti pang "sense" sa mga utak ng mga kano. Inatake sila kaya dapat lang na ma-justify. Ngayon naman ay puro greed & pride na lang sila. Feeling nila dapat tayong sumunod sa kanila dahil may utang tayo sa kanila.

Isa pa, nagalit sila ng todo dahil sa Pearl harbor kaya nila inatake ang Japan pero bakit ngayon, ang mga kano naman ay inabuso ang mga Afghan kaya ang mga Afghan ay nagalit din ng todo at umatake tapos magagalit yung mag kano? pwede rin dahil sobra ang ginawa nila (9-11) pero tignan muna nila ang sarili nila bago sila kumilos. As I said over & over again, Pride.

It's called tactics, and I think you know that. The Filipinos are outgunned first and foremost. The best time to strike is when these guys' guns were on the ground, not on their hands.

Do I hear "God Bless America" in the background?

Powell actually wanted to go into Iraq after the UN has finished their arms inspections. It was Rumsfeld along with Bush who pushed for the immediate execution of the war plan.

I'm not pacifist at all (why should I label Washington as a valid target if I were?).

As for models, well, a lot of modellers hate the Nazis for what they did but they still build their Stukas and Panzers and Bismarcks. Filipinos and other Asian modellers make models of WWII Japanese military as well. The harsh reality of life requires us to live both with things and people that we like and we don't like, and the opinion of people we agree and disagree upon. For modelling to be fairly accurate, we must depict both if not all the facets of reality; Allied and Axis, Allied and Communist, Government and Rebel forces, Humans and Orcs, Good and Evil and the rest who don't care.

I apologize to everyone for turning this thread into a politically-charged rantpit.

Uh huh. Yeah, you call that tactics, and yet you deplore the use of excessive force in the video. If that wasn't tactics, then the above quote isn't either. More so in fact.

Ooooh... I'm touched. Fortunately, I know my facts. And my history. Is that all you can say? I won't even put a smiley on that one. Looks... immature.

Yeah, but he eventually agreed, right? And he still stands firm that the war was justified.

Yeah, but that doesn't change my new perception of you on viewing things as "targets."

The USA isn't solely guilty for doing that. Russia is one. It wanted Chechniya firmly in its hands because it sat on a potentially oil rich area. Besides, the USA was practically invited in WW2 to wage war. In Vietnam, there was no economic reason to wage war there, except to stop communism. Same in Korea. IIRC, after Vietnam, the USA was in dire economic straits.

But those Iraqis weren't invading America.

Nah, just trying to annoy you.

Bottomlines for my opinion on that: a) I just don't believe that the end justifies the means and b) I won't be grateful for a lot of good things if the price was a lot of bad things anyway.

Which I believe, is a political roundabout. We'll eventually know what he really really felt.

Don't worry, I'm won't strap bombs on myself and go there or something.

Doesn't matter. It's basically the same.

Which adds nothing to the thread.

True, but reality is often that way unfortunately. Bottomline for my opinion: They aren't evil as others would like to portray them.

Nor send someone else there.

Doen't matter. God Bless America

I think the Muslims take the exact same perspective regarding suicide bombers.

right is right and left is left. never the twain shall meet.

As long as I am griping, I want to add a couple of things about hypocrites who go to church:
Do you call yourself a good catholic or person by littering in Church?
Do you call yourself a catholic when you park your car infront of the Church door because you don't want to walk very far or walk under the sun?

OMG. I'm speechless really. Can't argue with this one. The logic is so mind boggling, so... enlightening. I'm stupified. What a trump card. I'm sure if I say "God Bless America" in the courtroom, the case is mine - unless the other guys says it first. Wow. Splendid argument. Excellente. Fantastic. Must be the Ph.D. of all arguments. Aristotle and the great philosophers would be ecstatic. It must be Truth after all. Yes, must be. Fascinating argument. Totally unrebuttable.