History Club
Military history and past events only. Rants or inflamitory comments will be removed.
Military history and past events only. Rants or inflamitory comments will be removed.
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wernt we just talking about this
sourkraut

Member Since: May 11, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 08:58 AM UTC
Israeli bulldozers flattened ground Sunday for an electronic fence that is planned to eventually run the entire length of the West Bank - a disputed project aimed at protecting Israelis from Palestinian suicide bombers.
cdave

Member Since: June 08, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 09:04 AM UTC
Scott,
Not sure about if we (just joined) were talking about this, but I do recall a wall in a few other places.
Can you remember Pres/ Regan's message to Gorbachav?
And, what's this I hear about Iraq?
Not sure about if we (just joined) were talking about this, but I do recall a wall in a few other places.
Can you remember Pres/ Regan's message to Gorbachav?
And, what's this I hear about Iraq?
sourkraut

Member Since: May 11, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 09:05 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Scott,
Not sure about if we (just joined) were talking about this, but I do recall a wall in a few other places.
Can you remember Pres/ Regan's message to Gorbachav?
And, what's this I hear about Iraq?![]()
![]()
not right off hand
cdave

Member Since: June 08, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 11:26 AM UTC
"...Mr Gorbachov, tear down this wall...."
If the Isralei's put up a whole war, I think that they will regret it. Herd a news cast (Fox) that it was suppose to be several hundred miles long.
What the h$%#$#% are they doing (on both sides)?
Dave
If the Isralei's put up a whole war, I think that they will regret it. Herd a news cast (Fox) that it was suppose to be several hundred miles long.
What the h$%#$#% are they doing (on both sides)?
Dave
Posted: Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 11:51 AM UTC
nothing wrong trying to keep the homicide bombers out, nothing wrong with a little revenge either. palestinians can't be trusted as the Israelis say and should be segregated to keep them from murdering anyone any more. moslems are proving their treachery on all fronts.
"Revenge is a dish best served cold"
"Revenge is a dish best served cold"
cdave

Member Since: June 08, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 12:53 PM UTC
Hey Pak,
what I mean is that these lines are at pre-1967 boundry. This is stupid. There was no Palestine and no real interest in these people.
Now, that the Israeli's have done something to the land, they start a "Jihad" jsut to force their desire. I belive that this wall (while keeping these idiots out) will lock them into a position they can not get out of. And, there are several hundred Israeli's on the other side of this wall.
Now, time to step off of the soap-box and let someone else stand up......
what I mean is that these lines are at pre-1967 boundry. This is stupid. There was no Palestine and no real interest in these people.
Now, that the Israeli's have done something to the land, they start a "Jihad" jsut to force their desire. I belive that this wall (while keeping these idiots out) will lock them into a position they can not get out of. And, there are several hundred Israeli's on the other side of this wall.
Now, time to step off of the soap-box and let someone else stand up......
sourkraut

Member Since: May 11, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 07:25 PM UTC
Quoted Text
nothing wrong trying to keep the homicide bombers out, nothing wrong with a little revenge either. palestinians can't be trusted as the Israelis say and should be segregated to keep them from murdering anyone any more. moslems are proving their treachery on all fronts.
"Revenge is a dish best served cold"
i agree with pak
210cav

Member Since: February 05, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 11:51 PM UTC
We kicked the wall ideas around in the discussion on the Arab-Israeli Conflict. The idea first came to my attention from an editorial by Richard Cohen in the Washington Post. Walls are effective deterrants. The Maginot Line, for example, did exactly what it was designed to do. It preclude the Germans from seizing Alsace and Lorraine. The problem was and will remain that man's mind is not stagnant. Some guy will always find a way to render a given wall useless. This is also true of the Maginot Line. Patton's statement that "fixed fortifications are monument to the stupidity of man" rings true to this day. However, what else would you have them do? If human lives are save and someone on the other side of the wall spends more time trying to circumvent it then they do now, you bought yourself some time. But, someone will eventually render it useless.
DJ
DJ
Michel

Member Since: March 13, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 12:22 PM UTC
Pak and Sourkraut, you ' re wrong...! First, there ' re palos & moslems INSIDE Israėl...And a LOT ! What do you think they would do, if everythin' go mad ( i mean MORE than today ! ) ?
We, French, did the same, between Tunisia and Algeria...But, we ' d to send our Paras down the Kasbah, to stop terrorism bombing...And FIGHT the hell ! Didn' t you remember Nam and the Westmoreland 's DMZ...And what ? Commies went through Laos, Cambodgia, sea, air, over AND under...And you ' d to FIGHT the bloody Hell !
You couldn' t stop war with a wall...Even an " electrified " one....!
' ve a nice day !
We, French, did the same, between Tunisia and Algeria...But, we ' d to send our Paras down the Kasbah, to stop terrorism bombing...And FIGHT the hell ! Didn' t you remember Nam and the Westmoreland 's DMZ...And what ? Commies went through Laos, Cambodgia, sea, air, over AND under...And you ' d to FIGHT the bloody Hell !
You couldn' t stop war with a wall...Even an " electrified " one....!
' ve a nice day !
sourkraut

Member Since: May 11, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 11:04 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Pak and Sourkraut, you ' re wrong...! First, there ' re palos & moslems INSIDE Israėl...And a LOT ! What do you think they would do, if everythin' go mad ( i mean MORE than today ! ) ?
We, French, did the same, between Tunisia and Algeria...But, we ' d to send our Paras down the Kasbah, to stop terrorism bombing...And FIGHT the hell ! Didn' t you remember Nam and the Westmoreland 's DMZ...And what ? Commies went through Laos, Cambodgia, sea, air, over AND under...And you ' d to FIGHT the bloody Hell !
You couldn' t stop war with a wall...Even an " electrified " one....!![]()
' ve a nice day !![]()
it worked for china
210cav

Member Since: February 05, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2002 - 06:16 AM UTC
Any obstacle can be breached. You put an obstacle in place to delay and disorganize the enemy. You do not put an obstacle up and twiddle your thumbs sitting behind it. That technique will work for a relative short term. You put the obstacle up, cover it with observation and fire then figure out what can be done to supplement it. Walls work fine if you do not rest on your rear end after completion. Preparation for the defense is never a finished product.
DJ
DJ
herberta

Member Since: March 06, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2002 - 06:31 AM UTC
Quoted Text
it worked for china
Not against the Mongols! They raided China effectively despite the wall.
The Palestine/Israel situation is a big mess. I'm not sure a wall is a good idea, but I can see why it's being tried.
Andy
ponysoldier

Member Since: March 13, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2002 - 10:51 AM UTC
Ok my 2cents again This old soldier is as tired of the blood as any one.
We have lost how many 1,000 of people and all we do is pick at each other
or the other guy , WHY cant any goverment defend its people from the
crime of murder? This is what it really is , in the name of someone
wants to create {sp] an islamic world in which they control...........
No not ever not at any cost !!!!!!!
I await your reply with respect
ponysoldier
We have lost how many 1,000 of people and all we do is pick at each other
or the other guy , WHY cant any goverment defend its people from the
crime of murder? This is what it really is , in the name of someone
wants to create {sp] an islamic world in which they control...........
No not ever not at any cost !!!!!!!
I await your reply with respect
ponysoldier
210cav

Member Since: February 05, 2002
entire network: 6,149 Posts
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2002 - 11:12 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Ok my 2cents again This old soldier is as tired of the blood as any one.
We have lost how many 1,000 of people and all we do is pick at each other
or the other guy , WHY cant any goverment defend its people from the
crime of murder? This is what it really is , in the name of someone
wants to create {sp] an islamic world in which they control...........
No not ever not at any cost !!!!!!!
I await your reply with respect
ponysoldier
Amigo--I can only echo the words of the former Prime Minister of Israel, Golda Meir, "Peace in the Middle East will only come when the Palestinians love their children more than they hate the Jews." Further emphasized by Israel's Foreign Secretary way back when, Abba Eban, "The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportuniy." When you attempt to discover what is the political objective(s) of the Palestinian government, you find that it is the total destruction of Israel. Get real! They have been there with the Arab population since man evolved from the apes. They are not going anywhere. Learning to live together and prosper should be there sole political objective. But like Gold Meir said, they do not love their children enough. Pity.
I have little if any sympathy for the catastrophes they bring upon themselves.
DJ
Arthur

Member Since: March 13, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2002 - 11:20 PM UTC
are we going round in circles?
Arthur.
we all agree to disagree.
Arthur.
we all agree to disagree.
oraora

Member Since: June 19, 2002
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Posted: Friday, June 21, 2002 - 12:44 AM UTC
but it's not only the arabs are like this.. in my view, most islams are like this. They would rather support blindly than based on whos right or wrong. That's their thinking....they correct on every matter(even if they're on the wrong side). In my country, if u would just say something about islam, those malays (almost all are islams) would jump to their religion's defence. I'm a christian. So when they say something about christian or chinese...well, i'll let those insults pass.. no use in showing who's more superior! But thankfully, here these malays would only react by mouth, very rare with fists or weapons.. :-)
Arthur

Member Since: March 13, 2002
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Posted: Friday, June 21, 2002 - 02:56 AM UTC
Hello Aroara...nice to hear from a new member,these are some of the views we have here
but you cant say them.....politically incorrect.
Arthur
Am Alba Mannich
but you cant say them.....politically incorrect.
Arthur
Am Alba Mannich
shiryon

Member Since: April 26, 2002
entire network: 876 Posts
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Posted: Friday, June 21, 2002 - 04:03 AM UTC
Don't Know if the wall will be the end all for stopping the terrorists, but similar walls along lebonese border and now Gaza have kept infiltration to a minimum. I saw those Bedouin who track in the Israeli Army their abilities are uncanny. As to the palastinians who live in Israel, well remember they have actually more to loose they could be expelled, lose their citizenship and so on. I know I wouldn't want to go from a modern country to living in poverty in Gaza. Also like I said in my posts in the other thread, the average palastinian only knows what he's told. He doesn't know all the Arab world has puhed him into this corner for their own reasons. He to deserves to live well and since for many reasons we as jews cannot invite him to live with us, he MUST have his own land. The cracks in the paalastinian authority are appearing and soon the walls will come down and someone with whom we can truly negotiate will appear. Until then the walls seems alot better than having to shell, bomb and destroy more of somthing that is close to middle ages as it is. I have two children so far, one ason who is six years from the Army I'd like there to be a solution before then.
God help us all
Josh
God help us all
Josh
sourkraut

Member Since: May 11, 2002
entire network: 602 Posts
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Posted: Friday, June 21, 2002 - 04:55 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Don't Know if the wall will be the end all for stopping the terrorists, but similar walls along lebonese border and now Gaza have kept infiltration to a minimum. I saw those Bedouin who track in the Israeli Army their abilities are uncanny. As to the palastinians who live in Israel, well remember they have actually more to loose they could be expelled, lose their citizenship and so on. I know I wouldn't want to go from a modern country to living in poverty in Gaza. Also like I said in my posts in the other thread, the average palastinian only knows what he's told. He doesn't know all the Arab world has puhed him into this corner for their own reasons. He to deserves to live well and since for many reasons we as jews cannot invite him to live with us, he MUST have his own land. The cracks in the paalastinian authority are appearing and soon the walls will come down and someone with whom we can truly negotiate will appear. Until then the walls seems alot better than having to shell, bomb and destroy more of somthing that is close to middle ages as it is. I have two children so far, one ason who is six years from the Army I'd like there to be a solution before then.
God help us all
Josh
well it wont stop it compleatly.but it will help
210cav

Member Since: February 05, 2002
entire network: 6,149 Posts
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Posted: Friday, June 21, 2002 - 05:52 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Don't Know if the wall will be the end all for stopping the terrorists, but similar walls along lebonese border and now Gaza have kept infiltration to a minimum. I saw those Bedouin who track in the Israeli Army their abilities are uncanny. As to the palastinians who live in Israel, well remember they have actually more to loose they could be expelled, lose their citizenship and so on. I know I wouldn't want to go from a modern country to living in poverty in Gaza. Also like I said in my posts in the other thread, the average palastinian only knows what he's told. He doesn't know all the Arab world has puhed him into this corner for their own reasons. He to deserves to live well and since for many reasons we as jews cannot invite him to live with us, he MUST have his own land. The cracks in the paalastinian authority are appearing and soon the walls will come down and someone with whom we can truly negotiate will appear. Until then the walls seems alot better than having to shell, bomb and destroy more of somthing that is close to middle ages as it is. I have two children so far, one ason who is six years from the Army I'd like there to be a solution before then.
God help us all
Josh
Josh--the creation and positioning of a wall is a darn sight better than sitting on your duffs and saying "Oh Whoa is me." There are good people on both sides. The voices of those who wish to prosper and rise above the squalor will be heard once the world (and I mean everyone) refuses to deal with the criminal elements of Palestinian society. I believe that day of recogning is at hand. Don't give up on wiser minds rising from the other side of the wall.
Stay safe and prosper
DJ
sourkraut

Member Since: May 11, 2002
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Posted: Friday, June 21, 2002 - 08:37 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextDon't Know if the wall will be the end all for stopping the terrorists, but similar walls along lebonese border and now Gaza have kept infiltration to a minimum. I saw those Bedouin who track in the Israeli Army their abilities are uncanny. As to the palastinians who live in Israel, well remember they have actually more to loose they could be expelled, lose their citizenship and so on. I know I wouldn't want to go from a modern country to living in poverty in Gaza. Also like I said in my posts in the other thread, the average palastinian only knows what he's told. He doesn't know all the Arab world has puhed him into this corner for their own reasons. He to deserves to live well and since for many reasons we as jews cannot invite him to live with us, he MUST have his own land. The cracks in the paalastinian authority are appearing and soon the walls will come down and someone with whom we can truly negotiate will appear. Until then the walls seems alot better than having to shell, bomb and destroy more of somthing that is close to middle ages as it is. I have two children so far, one ason who is six years from the Army I'd like there to be a solution before then.
God help us all
Josh
Josh--the creation and positioning of a wall is a darn sight better than sitting on your duffs and saying "Oh Whoa is me." There are good people on both sides. The voices of those who wish to prosper and rise above the squalor will be heard once the world (and I mean everyone) refuses to deal with the criminal elements of Palestinian society. I believe that day of recogning is at hand. Don't give up on wiser minds rising from the other side of the wall.
Stay safe and prosper
DJ
well put DJ
oraora

Member Since: June 19, 2002
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Posted: Friday, June 21, 2002 - 10:18 AM UTC
let's just hope one day in the near future if not now, everyone will live in harmony without fear being bown sky high by some psyhco- maniac terrorist!
210cav

Member Since: February 05, 2002
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Posted: Saturday, June 22, 2002 - 02:54 AM UTC
Quoted Text
let's just hope one day in the near future if not now, everyone will live in harmony without fear being bown sky high by some psyhco- maniac terrorist!![]()
Amen, brother. Why do they hate those who prosper? We are about to celebrate one of the most memorable holidays in our Nation's yearly calendar amidst threats to some kid standing on the sidewalk watching a parade. If anything should happen on the 4th of July, I believe the American reaction will dwarf the post-Pearl Harbor response. It is not going to take much of a push for this country to really get mad.....and, do something about it.
DJ
oraora

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Posted: Saturday, June 22, 2002 - 12:56 PM UTC
yep, we should all prosper through hard work and respect others lifes..I hope nothing bad will happen on ur independence day..it's a shame should chaos happen on such a happy occasion..
210cav

Member Since: February 05, 2002
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Posted: Saturday, June 22, 2002 - 10:01 PM UTC
Quoted Text
yep, we should all prosper through hard work and respect others lifes..I hope nothing bad will happen on ur independence day..it's a shame should chaos happen on such a happy occasion..
I recall the saying that "eternal vigilance is the price of freedom." You need to live by that oath every day.
DJ
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