So, somebody claims that US tracks don't rust, because they are made of "high quality steel". He also claims to have crew every tank, from the M4A4 to Abrams, in combat.

US tracks do rust. I have photos of rusted US track in my gallery. Lol

As an old M60A1/A3 tanker, yes, USA tracks will rust, with end connectors, center guides and the teeth of the drive sprocket. And all of this wears out after use.

If a tank has been moved and then sits around for a while in a temperate climate (or Germany), those pieces will begin to have surface rust. When the tank moves, the end connectors, center guides and drive sprocket teeth will lose the surface rust and have a shine. The track itself will take some movement to get a shine. And the inside of those tracks I have never seen losing their rust color after movement.

let me guess that "somebody" is spouting this off on a certain social media site

I saw his letter in FSM

Thank you for a Monday morning belly-laugh. Great way to start the week. But you know the rubber bits don't rust.

Yep. That is where I saw it. Actually, it was on FB, as I no longer subscribe to FSM.

Um, no idea who it is, really don't care, but all US tracks rust, from the first to the last, and NOBODY but a General can stay in Combat Arms 45 years!

I read this article before. I forgot where though...

the article is in aprils copy of fine scale modeler. what the author of the artical states is that the tracks on an OPERATIONAL combat vehicle, will not rust due to rust resistant hardened steel and with other factors such as contact with drive wheels/sprockets, constant surface contact with dirt, sand, etc. obviously, this isnt entirely true since it is impossible for any track link to have continuous contact to any surface to keep it rust free.
he also goes to say that this will be the case with normal steel tracks on older tanks from ww1 and later. goes on to say that there is "very little rust, if any at all" on display tanks in museums throughout the country.
obviously, if he is speaking of display tanks that are indoors, then there wont be any rust since they vehicles are cleaned up pretty well for display. these same vehicles that are displayed outdoors, there will be plenty of rust and can be seen simply by doing image searches on the internet.

So, he is stating the obvious by claiming that "tracks don't rust, because they are made of high quality steel". But, meaning only tracks in museums?

that is what it really sounds like. that, and the tanks that are in continuous use.

the simple fact that tracks dont rust is just plain wrong. i assume that he is trying to tell people that operatioonal vehicles shouldnt depict rust. his comments about display tanks is simply wrong unless they are painted tracks, or vehicles stored inside. example listed below. this picture obviously is probably not in constant use, nor is it a display tank inside a buidling.



seems to be plenty of rust on these tracks, and it a vehicle of a recent era, obviously.

The operant word here is operational.(sorry, I couldn't resist.). I believe the tracks have a high manganese content that is wear and rust resistant, however they will rust if left idle for a long time in a wet environment.


THe museum displays are a whole 'nother matter. Some are pristine others are left outside and neglected, even in well maintained collections like Littlefields'(RIP).

Many model representations of operational tracked vehicles seem to me to be "hey look at how well I can use weathering techniques to replicate rust." Don't even let me get started about exhaust systems.

On my senior trip to SE Asia in '65 IIRC the tracked vehicles I was around, Amtracs, Pattons and an occasional Ontos the tracks were pretty shiny but I sure as hell wasn't paying attention to it with a future kit builders'eye. We were on beach sand at Chu Lai so everything got scoured, entrenching tools, water and gas cans, the dozer blades and tracks of MCB 10s'equipment.

THe same sandy environment exists in the Middle East and Afghanistan so I believe the treads, links and pins would be pretty well scoured. Isn't exactly a rain forest environment there.


THe same would have been true in the early days on the Eastern Front and Western Europe.To say nothing of No. Africa. Less so as the Germans retreated across Russia, but they did the best they could with what they had. Reliability of the equipment was life to the armor and cannon cockers.

So after all this meandering, both sides have legitimate arguments. Yes the tracks are made of rust resistant material, not by design but a consequence of a wear resistant alloy and will rust some, however operational use in combat conditions there would be little if any rust.

......and since it was too late to edit my previous post.... Many vehicles, particularly National Guard units sit quite a while in local armories' yards. Same for deadlined vehicles at operating bases. Similarly all the outfits' vehicles don't go out on every training exercise except for regimental or divisional exercises. It becomes a pick 'em on how an AFV is depicted. "To rust or not to rust, that is the question." No definitive answer.

Operational does not mean that the vehicle is in active use(i.e. on patrol).

Now I want everybody to evaluate the likelihood of someone to have "crewed every tank from the M4A4 to the M1A1 Abrams in combat".
Physically, logistically, and chronologically impossible, I say.

And, if he wears medals for these "actions" and was paid for this letter or article, then he is guilty of the Stolen Valor Act and is going to prison.

And, if he wears medals for these "actions" and was paid for this letter or article, then he is guilty of the Stolen Valor Act and is going to prison.[/quote]

Matt,

Sadly, the Stolen Valor Act of 2005, signed into law by President Bush,was struck down by the Supreme Court (US V. Alverez) in 2013 as an infringement of the right to free speech.


Matt N.,

I should have used the term operationally ready vehicles. That is any vehicle, weapons system, ship etc. capable of performing in an operation. Sorry for using an imprecise term.

Again the previous session timed out and wouldn't let me edit my previous post.

Hard to believe a 45 year service career even if reserve time was included unless he was a four star.

The first Stolen Valor act of 2006 was struck down. A revised law was proposed and passed by COngress.

THe second Stolen Valor Act prohibiting financial gain from misrepresenting yourself as an awardee of medals aor citations was signed by the current president in 2013. It is currently in effect. I don't know of any challenges to the law. IIRC, the penalty is $100000 fine and up to a year in prison. However the law only covers certain combat awards. I believe theater of operations awards and PUC's are exempted.

Ma and NJ are crafting state laws with more severe penalties than the federal version that they feel will stand up to constitutional challenge.


Lesson learned: Edit quickly.

TOny

Things like tracks can and do rust overnight. Or it's that screw you stripped the paint off changing a headlight and the following morning it's rusted. How it do that? Dew. Is it foggy one morning? Everything is covered in water? Expect to see rust even if everything is moving about and moving. Nature is wet and wet rusts metal.


And yes there is dew and fog in the desert. Just no rain. Heat and sun also oxidizes bare metal. So rust is plentiful if chemists and meteorologists are to be believed.

I just want to meet the man that went into battle in a Sherman and an Abrams.

But he can't be an American since the USA never used the M4A4 in combat and only the USA and Egypt have used the Abrams in combat. So he must be an Egyptian which means the time period isn't quite so vast.


But he says he's American so... illogical, illogical... this would make one of those Star Trek androids short circuit.

While I have never served, (Thank you to all that have)I do have experience with heavy equipment. I can assure you that the blades buckets and tracks on dozers and excavators are all high grade high manganese content steel. After sitting idle for a few days they will start to grow a rusty patina. Tho it is never the bright orangey color so often dipicted... I can provide photos if there is any interest.

Scott, where in Alabama are you located? I am in Birmingham.