I think we are all hitting on a desired end state-- the elimination or diminishment of terrorism. What I ask you to bring forth is the ways and means to do it. We have herad (quite correctly, IMHO) that we are attacked by fanatics with suicidial intent. So, how in practical terms are we going to stop them. Immigrations and travel restrictions are a way, let's hear some others.
DJ
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Most Effective Method to counter terrorism
210cav
Member Since: February 05, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 01:49 AM UTC
blaster76
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Posted: Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 07:23 AM UTC
DJ at this time force is the only way to stop what is currently going on, but what you want is a solution rather than a remedy. Somehow we have to get in those people's minds and teach them that Jihad is a 13th century idea and not a good one at that. So like the old TV ad says.....one child at a time. That's where we need to focus, on the kids.
Ranger74
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Posted: Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 12:17 PM UTC
We have made some headway in Iraq - it is like a vacumn sucking the terrorists in so we can kill them outside of our borders. Also, with the capture of Saddam, we are getting more HUMINT - getting the people to understand there is a better way to live, than under the tyrany that supprots terrorists will help.
210cav
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Posted: Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 01:23 PM UTC
Well, we have two good inputs: education and HUMINT. How do we get to the money they are using to finance these schemes?
DJ
DJ
brandydoguk
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Posted: Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 11:16 PM UTC
A basic way is to isolate the terrorists from their base of support. Using HUMINT and SIGINT to find the sources of funding to block their finances. Using education and foreign aid to stop the general populations of poorer countries from giving support. Using diplomatic and millitary pressure to stop regimes turning a blind eye to groups in their countries. BUT this will only work if ALL the western powers do this in concert and the US must get them all on board in this.
210cav
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Posted: Monday, January 12, 2004 - 02:52 AM UTC
International cooperation comes at a price.....what are we willing to compromise to get the assistance the task requires?
Noodles
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Posted: Monday, January 12, 2004 - 03:14 AM UTC
i'm not sure if anyone has thought of this, but if we all just give one person each day a hug, and they spread it around, then i think that we'll start to make a difference... 
210cav
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Posted: Monday, January 12, 2004 - 03:55 AM UTC
Quoted Text
i'm not sure if anyone has thought of this, but if we all just give one person each day a hug, and they spread it around, then i think that we'll start to make a difference...
Well, that is a technique.
Ranger74
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Posted: Monday, January 12, 2004 - 04:33 AM UTC
I don't think my wife will let me do that! 
210cav
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Posted: Monday, January 12, 2004 - 05:08 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I don't think my wife will let me do that!
So, give me a few feasible policy alternative.....immigration, travel restrictions. How do you stem the flow of money? Without that, these clowns are dead meat.
Ranger74
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Posted: Monday, January 12, 2004 - 06:38 AM UTC
DJ - You need to let your sense of humor out 
As far as the USA is concerned, we need to secure our borders - The Border Patrol is a joke - not the personnel, but the pitifully small size and capabilities. Getting into the USA from Mexico and Canada is easier than trying to get into my house.
The government is starting to photograph and fingerprint foreigners and airports and seaports. That is a start.
Stopping flow of money will be difficult if governments don't force their banking industries to cooperate.
I have just finished reading a bunch of news reports concerning recent terrorist and counter-terrorist operations - the flurry of airline flight cancellations, diversions and delays were caused by HUMINT and other information gleaned by USA and allies.
As far as the USA is concerned, we need to secure our borders - The Border Patrol is a joke - not the personnel, but the pitifully small size and capabilities. Getting into the USA from Mexico and Canada is easier than trying to get into my house.
The government is starting to photograph and fingerprint foreigners and airports and seaports. That is a start.
Stopping flow of money will be difficult if governments don't force their banking industries to cooperate.
I have just finished reading a bunch of news reports concerning recent terrorist and counter-terrorist operations - the flurry of airline flight cancellations, diversions and delays were caused by HUMINT and other information gleaned by USA and allies.
210cav
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Posted: Monday, January 12, 2004 - 08:27 AM UTC
I believe I have a tremendous sense of humor . Do your really think the huggy post was real? I think it was Gunnie in one of his more light hearted moments.
DJ
. Do your really think the huggy post was real? I think it was Gunnie in one of his more light hearted moments.DJ
Ranger74
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Posted: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 03:22 PM UTC
No I understood the hugs, I was just trying to lighten things a little , but I take fighting terrorism quite seriously: I was stationed in Germany during the height of the Bader-Meinhof Gang/Red Army Faction terror wave - my family was chased out of our quarters in Frankfurt by a bomb scare, cars in government quarters were being bombed and Vth Corps HQs, where I was working, was bombed twice while I was there. I also had the first guard shift with my company at Baumholder in DEC '83 during a heightened terror watch. I had a tank platoon with a tank at each entrance to the cantonment area. It was a different kind of terrorist - they were resctricted to Germany, and while causing some damage, they tried to reduce casualities. The German government had a sense of humor about the RAF - When I went to the German post office to pay my telephone bill I would check the "Most wanted" posters with the pictures of the "Gang". When one was captured or killed their piture would have an "X" drawn thru it. If they had been killed in a shoot-out, the word "Todt", "Dead" was added. Neat scorecard 
, but I take fighting terrorism quite seriously: I was stationed in Germany during the height of the Bader-Meinhof Gang/Red Army Faction terror wave - my family was chased out of our quarters in Frankfurt by a bomb scare, cars in government quarters were being bombed and Vth Corps HQs, where I was working, was bombed twice while I was there. I also had the first guard shift with my company at Baumholder in DEC '83 during a heightened terror watch. I had a tank platoon with a tank at each entrance to the cantonment area. It was a different kind of terrorist - they were resctricted to Germany, and while causing some damage, they tried to reduce casualities. The German government had a sense of humor about the RAF - When I went to the German post office to pay my telephone bill I would check the "Most wanted" posters with the pictures of the "Gang". When one was captured or killed their piture would have an "X" drawn thru it. If they had been killed in a shoot-out, the word "Todt", "Dead" was added. Neat scorecard Ranger74
Member Since: April 04, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 06:06 AM UTC
Hope I haven't snuffed out this thread 
It was interesting!! 
It was interesting!! 
GunTruck
Member Since: December 01, 2001
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Posted: Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 10:10 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I believe I have a tremendous sense of humor
DJ
Heh heh - it really wasn't me! The post was genuine!
Gunnie
Ranger74
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Posted: Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 11:58 AM UTC
Gunnie - Its still your fault!!! :-) 
AJLaFleche
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Posted: Friday, January 16, 2004 - 06:23 AM UTC
I don't know if there's an answer, simple or complex, to this question, but I've seen several responses that focus on Islam and the Koran. Before we, of the Western world, paint the followers of this religion with too broad a brush, we MUST remember that for a thousand years, Christians travelled the world, Bible in one had and sword in the other, and woe to the person, Jew, Moslem, Gypsie, pagan, "witch" or whatever who didn't renounce his/her beliefs! And in time, woe to the "heretic" Christian of differnent flavor, as well!
210cav
Member Since: February 05, 2002
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Posted: Friday, January 16, 2004 - 07:20 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I don't know if there's an answer, simple or complex, to this question, but I've seen several responses that focus on Islam and the Koran. Before we, of the Western world, paint the followers of this religion with too broad a brush, we MUST remember that for a thousand years, Christians travelled the world, Bible in one had and sword in the other, and woe to the person, Jew, Moslem, Gypsie, pagan, "witch" or whatever who didn't renounce his/her beliefs! And in time, woe to the "heretic" Christian of differnent flavor, as well!
That is a great summary and directly effects our topic. I am going to cover a lot of ground here to spark some more discussion. The true ignorance of man is amply demonstrated by religious intolerance for another. Let's hit on that for a moment. Is Islam a theological or a political movement? If it is theological then is it based on love of your fellow man or is it a set of rigid parameters designed to keep people within a certain structure? I watched the video of the mother of two who blew herself up and several other people. It is frightening to listen to her rationale. How do you ever convince someone that destruction of a political entity (Israel) is sanctioned by god (I knowingly use the lower case in this question)? Heaven awaits someone who commits suicide and takes innocent life? Is that a religious belief or a political statement?
Let's see what we can come up with in addressing this important issue.
DJ
Ranger74
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Posted: Friday, January 16, 2004 - 07:37 AM UTC
DJ -
As an add-on to the religious-politicl dicotomy - I jus reviewed an e-mail, here at work concerning terrorist acts inside the US over the last few years. There was one slide with a map describing and locating incidents of anti-abortion related attacks. I listed this kind of attack, also as a terrorist attack, based on a description of terrorism - "trying to force your views or beliefs on others through use of violence or threats of violence"
As a disclaimer, I am not using anti-abortion terrorism for any particular reason - could use eco-terrorism, racial terroism (KKK, Black Panthers, etc., etc.) or any other political or religious-based terrorism.
As an add-on to the religious-politicl dicotomy - I jus reviewed an e-mail, here at work concerning terrorist acts inside the US over the last few years. There was one slide with a map describing and locating incidents of anti-abortion related attacks. I listed this kind of attack, also as a terrorist attack, based on a description of terrorism - "trying to force your views or beliefs on others through use of violence or threats of violence"
As a disclaimer, I am not using anti-abortion terrorism for any particular reason - could use eco-terrorism, racial terroism (KKK, Black Panthers, etc., etc.) or any other political or religious-based terrorism.
Easy_Co
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Posted: Friday, January 16, 2004 - 07:46 AM UTC
Do we realy think we can change these peoples minds,I read about the latest human bomb in Isreal, a mother of three children steady husband with his own buisness not in the least bit poor but mum gets these idiots preaching to her so she blows herself and a couple of Isrealies up, now who will we blame for this the Imperialist U.S. and British obviously their fault lets have a Jehad,ok im a cynic but if this womans husband doesnt start shouting about how his Mrs checked out and demand that it stops how the hell are we going to do it.If I learned anything in my life its that a good terrorist is a dead one especially if he's a leader.I think the only way to stop it is for the real muslims to stand up and be counted, because all this crap thats going down in their name has nothing to do with Islam,its just a nice convieniant title.Until that happens find them kill them cut off their cash flows stop these so called men of god travelling around the world preaching death to the west and drawing unemployment benifits.im gonna have a beer bye all :-) 
210cav
Member Since: February 05, 2002
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Posted: Friday, January 16, 2004 - 12:21 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Do we realy think we can change these peoples minds,I read about the latest human bomb in Isreal, a mother of three children steady husband with his own buisness not in the least bit poor but mum gets these idiots preaching to her so she blows herself and a couple of Isrealies up, now who will we blame for this the Imperialist U.S. and British obviously their fault lets have a Jehad,ok im a cynic but if this womans husband doesnt start shouting about how his Mrs checked out and demand that it stops how the hell are we going to do it.If I learned anything in my life its that a good terrorist is a dead one especially if he's a leader.I think the only way to stop it is for the real muslims to stand up and be counted, because all this crap thats going down in their name has nothing to do with Islam,its just a nice convieniant title.Until that happens find them kill them cut off their cash flows stop these so called men of god travelling around the world preaching death to the west and drawing unemployment benifits.im gonna have a beer bye all :-)
Well, enjoy the beer. I fully appreciate your remarks on destroying certain human beings. It is unfortunately, but sometimes there is no other way to defend yourself. Now, the Israelis are openly saying they will get the head of Hamas. I think it needs to be done, but where does it end? How do you get folks to appreciate this is not the way to go?
DJ
SonOfAVet
Member Since: January 18, 2003
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Posted: Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 07:53 PM UTC
Terrorism will never be "won". It is an ideology, a method of opperation. The U.S. will never clap its hands one day and say" the war on terrorism is over-- there are no more terrorisits in the world". There have always been threats to the U.S., we just lived in a LALA world until 9/11. I dont think "war on..." is a just way to do things. The root problem is money. Thats always the first interest of the US. With greed blinding us we never think about what our mark on humanity will be. How will we be percieved 500 years from now? How will people look back on us? The most powerful country/empire and what did we do? Did we cure AIDS? Did we better humanity? Or were we stuck in a corrupt cycle of greed? did we preach about "liberating" other countries when we had numerous problems-- education, health, drugs, homelessness, unemployment, federal defict-- of our own at home?
I dont want to hear about how the Iraqi's suffered under Saddam, the WORLD, not just the US is responsible. I walk to my college everyday, in downtown Chicago, the murder capitol of the US, 499 homicides last year-- mostly gang and drug related-- i see homeless people begging, sleeping, looking for food. Why not help them? They are American citizens!! Are we not important as well?
Sorry for the rant, its late and I have alot to say about the topic. I dont think that any culture is better or worse that the US. WE have our own nasty ways as well. We also have a checkered past when it comes to respecting other peoples cultures-- ie Native American, Africans, Any immigrant group to the US, we are a very racist culture and we execute people as well. It does not make Middle Easterners any more barbaric than US
Just my two cents
Sean
I dont want to hear about how the Iraqi's suffered under Saddam, the WORLD, not just the US is responsible. I walk to my college everyday, in downtown Chicago, the murder capitol of the US, 499 homicides last year-- mostly gang and drug related-- i see homeless people begging, sleeping, looking for food. Why not help them? They are American citizens!! Are we not important as well?
Sorry for the rant, its late and I have alot to say about the topic. I dont think that any culture is better or worse that the US. WE have our own nasty ways as well. We also have a checkered past when it comes to respecting other peoples cultures-- ie Native American, Africans, Any immigrant group to the US, we are a very racist culture and we execute people as well. It does not make Middle Easterners any more barbaric than US
Just my two cents
Sean
210cav
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Posted: Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 02:50 AM UTC
Sean-- I follow most of your commentary. Achieving balance among all the priorities of our society demands that somethings do not get done. If we protect our vulnerable area then we should be able to continue fostering the kind of society that future generations will always say of us "they did pretty good." Perfection is a marvelous goal, but we will always fall short. We have a collectively short memry regarding the dangers of terrorism because (IMHO) we can not fathom that someone actually wants to kill us--- we have a self image that we feel the rest of the world envies. So, yes we have destroy the rodents that are terrorist, but just like the rats they mirror they will always be with us. What kind of rat traps do we need is the question?
thanks
DJ
thanks
DJ
Ranger74
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Posted: Monday, January 19, 2004 - 04:35 AM UTC
Sean,
I am sorry, but I cannot agree with most of your assertions. We tend to be overbearing and self-righteous, but the USA is the most generous country in the world. We give away more food, medicines and money than most of the rest of the world produces. If we were such a self-serving nation, we would not have so many people trying to get in.
You are correct in that terrorism will never end. We have had terrorism in this country since its founding and so has the rest of the world. There will always be individuals and groups that want to push there beliefs, be whatever they are, on someone else. When you try to force your beliefs thru the use of violence then you have terroism.
The US government has been active against terrorism for a long time, I know, I've been part of it, not just since 9/11. 9/11 got the attention of the general public. What we are now doing is trying to reduce teh threat of international terrorism from overwhelming our way of life. We can never totally destroy it, but we can get it to an acceptable level.
Jeff
I am sorry, but I cannot agree with most of your assertions. We tend to be overbearing and self-righteous, but the USA is the most generous country in the world. We give away more food, medicines and money than most of the rest of the world produces. If we were such a self-serving nation, we would not have so many people trying to get in.
You are correct in that terrorism will never end. We have had terrorism in this country since its founding and so has the rest of the world. There will always be individuals and groups that want to push there beliefs, be whatever they are, on someone else. When you try to force your beliefs thru the use of violence then you have terroism.
The US government has been active against terrorism for a long time, I know, I've been part of it, not just since 9/11. 9/11 got the attention of the general public. What we are now doing is trying to reduce teh threat of international terrorism from overwhelming our way of life. We can never totally destroy it, but we can get it to an acceptable level.
Jeff
210cav
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Posted: Monday, January 19, 2004 - 06:04 AM UTC
Jeff--- I completely support your commentary. The only way to forestall terrorism is to make those who engage in it pay a heavy price for their actions. I have given this toopic thought. I am forced to conclude that trying to convince the mother of several children not to blow herself up is doomed to fail. Constructing an entry point wherein the individual is searched and the blast confinded to a small area is the only practical way I can see to gaining parity. You'll always have rodents. Killing the big ones and creating traps to snarl the little ones is a continual task. We are in just as great a state of war as existed in World War II. It is not going to be easy to win and we need the world to wake -up to that facts. This is not an issue for the United States, but for the world.
DJ
DJ
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