Hi, All! I've posed this question/rant before; WHY have we not seen a new, state-of-the-art 1/35 US WWII M8 Howitzer Motor Carriage yet?

Up until about a year ago, AFV CLUB showed an M8 HMC in the popular 1/35 scale as a "FUTURE" kit in their periodic "NEW RELEASE" announcements. Then, all of a sudden, it disappeared... My main question in this discussion is, WHY???

AFV CLUB would surely have had a leg-up on anyone else, as their highly accurate (And pleasing!) M5A1 kits are an altogether logical starting point for an M8 HMC project. TMD makes a BEAUTIFUL resin conversion kit, using an AFV CLUB M5A1 Early or Late Stuart kit as a donor. I'm fortunate in having one of these in my very extensive stash of future projects. However, it's an expensive conversion, and I'm sure that many modelers would prefer a state-of-the-art M8 HMC kit produced in plastic...

Then, there is TAMIYA's ancient offering of the M8 HMC, which is based on their equally archaic M5A1 Stuart, which in part, is based on their stone-age M3A1 kit. All three of these kits suffer from some serious inaccuracies, the most noticeable of which are the hulls, which are best regulated to the garbage. Enough said about the TAMIYA kits.

It's not that the M8 HMCs were rarities- certainly there is more logic in producing an M8 HMC than DRAGON's choice in deciding to produce an M103A1 and an M6... Am I missing something here?

Also, I think that AFV CLUB is missing the boat in not producing an all-new M3 Light Tank "Stuart"-series of kits. Some of you may disagree with me, but the 1/35 ACADEMY M3 Light Tank kits have a lot of issues. In my own opinion, AFV CLUB could do a better job, especially in the light of the fact that most of the suspension components in their M5A1 (Early) kits can be utilized to their advantage in a newly-tooled series of M3s.

Unfortunately, through one reason or another, it seems to take forever for AFV CLUB to produce any new US AFV- their M5A1(Early) took five years to hit the streets after it was first announced, so maybe we should be lobbying for a new M8 HMC and a new M3 Light-series from other manufacturers; BRONCO, HOBBY BOSS or maybe even MENG..? Any thoughts or opinions on these two subjects..?

From what I gather, AFVclub is a VERY small outfit, so their resources are limited.

But as with anything else, it's a sales decision. An M8 HMC would still be an extensive project, as nearly the full interior must be included. So sure... they could use their M5 suspension bits and lower hull, but everything else is new.

As for a M3... Tamiya and Academy both have M3's. Sure they aren't amazing, but how many AFVClub M3's would really be bought and built?

As it is now, I only rarely see anyone building a AFV Club M5 on the various sites.

I think it was personal. In spite of my praise for AFV club and their nice kits, they have taken exception to me and decided not to release the M8 or the 75mm pack howitzer, specifically because they knew how much I wanted them. Or, it could be a change in company direction after new management took over and a focus on more modern kits (new management would also explain the new personal dislike for me and my interests.)

Hi, Jesse! Glad to get your take on this. Let me put it this way- Every time a "new" Tiger I or Pz.III comes out, there's a mad rush of Panzer-heads to go out and buy it, no matter how many dozens of them they already have in their stashes. Never mind all of the other really obscure stuff that is coming into the 1/35 market lately.

I believe that there is a ready market within the community of US/Allied AFV and Softskin enthusiasts out there that really WOULD appreciate new, state-of-the art M3 and M8 HMC kits. I don't think it would be much of a stretch for AFV CLUB to do new M3s and/or M8 HMCs. Have you ever seen or bought any of AFV CLUB's parent company, HOBBY FAN's resin stuff? They'll spend big money for R&D, new tooling and start-up on stuff that your regular "Joe-Average" wouldn't even take a second look at.

I'd bet that there are a lot of US/Allied AFV fans that would just as enthusiastically welcome the good-sized variety of the M3 Light-series tanks and M8 HMCs, as they would (and do) AFV CLUB's Churchills, AEC Matadors, etc. Look how many different Tiger I kits of the same versions that DRAGON has spewed out in the last ten years, just to get the right positions of the engine access hatches on the bottom of their hulls!

You only rarely see anyone building an AFV CLUB M5-series because many of us are too damned busy building those incessant Tigers...

I also mentioned that it doesn't necessarily need to be AFV CLUB that takes up the challenge to produce a new, plastic M3-series and/or M8 HMC. I'm sure that BRONCO, HOBBY BOSS, TRUMPETER, or even TAMIYA could do just as well, or possibly even better. I don't discount TAMIYA- They came back and surprised many of us when they completely re-did their Matilda as an entirely newly-tooled kit, right down to proper styrene tracks with individual links.

While I'm on the subject of the Stuart series tanks, we could also use an entirely new T8E1 Recon Vehicle. Even THAT M5-based vehicle was vastly more common than the US M6/T1E2 Heavy Tank that DRAGON/Black Label has announced in their 2014 line-up. How many of these turkeys does DRAGON/Black Label hope to sell? I'm sure that their new M6 isn't going to be a fraction as popular as their "new" Tiger I Mid Prod. w/Zimmerit. Like we REALLY need another one of those...

BRONCO has been selling both US and British versions of the M22 Locust/T9E1 pretty successfully- the US version never went to war, and the M22 only saw service in one major campaign (Market Garden) with the British Airborne; the M3 and M5-series Stuarts saw battle ALL OVER the entire planet, in over a dozen different permutations. Ditto for the M8 HMC...

Have you seen Mike's Mack No? A gorgeous piece of modelling- So, here's another suggestion: How about a plastic kit of the Mack No? We're seeing all kinds of US/Commonwealth AFV's and Softskins, so why shouldn't one of the big plastic model companies pick on that one?

The points that you made are entirely valid, but I have to say that A LOT more models of obscure vehicles than the M3s and M8 HMCs have made it into production- HOBBY BOSS AND BRONCO BOTH are/will be fielding early AND Late Pz.Kpfw.I Ausf.F and Pz.Kpf.II Ausf.J kits. How many of these odd-balls did Germany produce during WWII? Buuuut, as you say, German sells- fine and dandy. All I am saying in this blog that I started is, why shouldn't our M3s and M8 HMCs be given a fair shake?

Hi, Russ! I don't think it's personal dislike on the part of AFV CLUB. They've probably set up an "I DON'T CARE DEPARTMENT" just like DRAGON's and/or the other Asian model manufacturers. When any correspondence from modellers is delivered by their postal services, it's automatically relegated to the garbage dumpster, or the burn barrel out back. Emailing these people doesn't do any good, either- "No speak English"...

These people? Whachoo mean these people?
I correspond regularly with reps from four different Asian companies whose English in some cases is better than what you'll read here. At least they know the difference between "you're" and "your."
One gentleman calls occasionally, and I've met another overseas more than once. You know what all of them say? Good research doesn't just fall out of the sky.
Since we're talking early armor, how about a good M2A2, in styrene, with proper screws instead of rivets?

I would love an M2A2 and the M2A4. The AFV Club M5A1 kits are very nice (I built both the early and late versions) but must have not sold as well as they would like. Maybe one day it will come back, or perhaps another manufacturer will take up the project.

Hi, 18Bravo! What I mean by "these people" is a general term, as I don't know their names. M2-series Combat Cars would be MOST WELCOME in plastic. I don't know what your feelings are regarding "full resin kits", or how deep your pockets are, so may I suggest COMMANDER MODELS/IRON SHIPWRIGHTS to you? They have a GREAT line of US/British pre-WWII AFVs that you might like, including US Light and Medium tanks. I bought their T3 Christie Tank and Ford 3 Ton Tank some years ago and I am still impressed with them. COMMANDER pulled their T3 out of production, but according to their website, it bill be back...

Hi, Russ! As I replied to Bravo18's comments, COMMANDER MODELS makes resin kits of the M2 Light-series tanks, plus a boat-load of other US pre-WWII AFVs. You might waqnt to check out their website...

As soon as I had finished buying several AFV CLUB M5A1 (Early and Late) kits, in anticipating conversion kits to model the "basic" M5 Light, M5A1 "Correction" kits/updates, PE sets and an M8 HMC Conversion kit, TMD came to the rescue with stuff to fulfill my wishes. They, and FORMATIONS also came out with "correction" hulls for ACADEMY's M3A1 and British "Honey" kits- they also recommended buying AFV CLUB 35056 M3/M5 Suspension & Wheels kits to remedy the pukey ACADEMY suspension components. If you compare the AFV CLUB Stuart suspensions and wheels to ACADEMY's, it's obvious that you'll want to use AFV CLUB's parts.

This whole forum that I started here, is based on the premise that up-to-date PLASTIC kits with today's CAD and Slide Injection Molding technology are preferable for many modelers than having to go out and buy expensive resin conversions and updates. So, I ask you guys- Wouldn't you rather spend HALF the money for a new plastic M8 HMC, rather than an expensive resin conversion kit?

Fortunately, I was able to buy all of those resin conversions and updates before I became disabled and at the mercy of SSI Disability Benefits, which only pay out A FRACTION of my previous salary...

Why would you suggest buying a Commander's resin kit of a kit when in the same thread, you're complaining about the Tamiya/Academy M3?

Commander's kits are not exactly known for accuracy or ease of construction.

That's funny on several levels, but I digress...
I don't do WWII armor any more, but I like to help out when I can. That's why I did the research on the M2A2. (Hence the photo of what should have been on the Commander kit.)
But if the inaccurate resin kit with no interior works, I'll stick to helping out with modern subjects.

https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/198306&ord=&page=1

If you go back and re-read what I wrote, you'll find that yes, I did criticize the ACADEMY and TAMIYA M3 Lights and M8 HMC. The subject of M2-series Lights came up, so I suggested looking at COMMANDER MODELS' resin M2 Lights, since at present, there are no plastic M2 Lights to be had... I did so because I have no way of knowing if the modellers were aware that COMMANDER MODELS produces several models in the M2-series. Not once did I compare the ACADEMY and TAMIYA M3/M5A1/M8 HMC kits to anything put out by COMMANDER... The M2 Lights were altogether different vehicles in concept, size, weight and mission from the M3/M5 Lights, despite their outward similarities. Their differences would be very apparent, if an M2-series were parked next to an M3/M5 Light. BTW, COMMANDER also makes some neat pre-war M2 Mediums...

In this day and age, why SHOULDN'T we want better, state-of-the-art kits of the M3 Lights and M8 HMC than what ACADEMY and TAMIYA offer presently?

How would you react if I said that we don't need any of the latest slide-molded DRAGON Tiger I kits or even TAMIYA's "second generation" Tigers in favor of TAMIYA's ancient "motorized" kits of the same? How many times have we read on this very site, of modellers' wishes for new products and improved kits of existing subjects?

Didn't I start this forum by raising the question of why AFV CLUB decided to "pull" their M8 HMC out of their "new announcements"? Didn't I state that it would be nice to have "newly-tooled, state-of-the-art PLASTIC kits of the M3 Lights and M8 HMC, rather than having to resort to expensive resin updates and/or conversions?

Didn't I forward the question before suggesting a look at the COMMANDER M2s: "I don't know how you feel about resin kits and conversions, but..."

It seems that much depends on which COMMANDER MODELS kits we're talking about. Which ones have you built? I've built two of COMMANDER MODELS' T3 Christie Conversions using the ZVEZDA/EASTERN EXPRESS Soviet BT-series kits as donors, and two "full resin" Ford 3-ton Tanks... And guess what? I did have my share of problems, but no more than any other resin conversion or "full kit" that I've ever built. I built my first resin conversions over FORTY YEARS AGO, and my first model in 1958, so I've accumulated a lot of "experience". I fully understand the trepidation and frustration that our neophite friends in the modelling community encounter when first trying to work with resin and/or PE; I prefer plastic, myself. Much easier on the wallet. Even so, I find myself buying resin updates and PE sets to improve upon what comes in the box. But if that M or Pz.Kpfw.-something-or-other that I've been lusting after is only made in resin, you can bet your last dollar that Dennis is going to go out and buy that thing.

I also said that when I built my two ACADEMY M3A1s and one of the British M3 "Honey", I used the TMD Top and Lower Hulls, both "Riveted" (for the "Honey") and "Welded" types (for the two M3A1s), and three of the AFV CLUB AF35056 M3/M5 Suspensions & Wheels kits, plus assorted PE. Also some GREAT FORMATIONS stuff. I personally have no problems with going out and buying "extra stuff" to accurately portray any project that I put my festering fingers on and diseased mind to.

HOWEVER, there are a lot of inexperienced guys that want accuracy, but balk at trying resin for the first time, plus there are guys out there that absolutely HATE resin and PE...

I wholeheartedly agree with you that it's true that some of the older COMMANDER MODELS' kits suffer from inaccuracies, but in fairness, I have to say that their newer kits are GREAT- Take a look at Jon's new 1/35 WWII US Army S-160 Class 2-8-0 Steam Locomotive.

I have yet to see ANY resin kit, even the best of them, that is as easy to assemble as a plastic kit. How many times have we read reviews and assembly articles where the modeller hasn't had to fiddle around with "fit" and some frustrating assembly when building a resin conversion or "full resin" kit? All I'm looking for is for some better, more accurate and cheaper alternatives to what we have on the market today. Fair enough?

Hi Everyone,
An alternative approach is to get the models modelled in 3D and then printed in one of many materials that can receive paint and some sanding/finishing. 1/35 scale tanks are easily printable due to their size and as the material can show detail as small as 0.1mm as well as moving parts if required then as a solution it might fill the gap in what others are providing. 3D Printing is not a mass production process so they would be more expensive than something that has a production run of 10,000 but if people really want a tank then its possible to do it this way.

I run a small UK company that 3D Models only for 3D Printing so we are leaders in our field and would be happy to talk this project through with anyone so please send me an email to [email protected] and I can see how we can help.