History Club
Military history and past events only. Rants or inflamitory comments will be removed.
Military history and past events only. Rants or inflamitory comments will be removed.
Hosted by Frank Amato
V-E, V-J Day... Day?
MikeyBugs95
Member Since: May 27, 2013
entire network: 2,210 Posts
KitMaker Network: 345 Posts
Posted: Friday, July 12, 2013 - 11:03 AM UTC
Currently only one U.S. state still currently celebrates Victory Over Japan Day, or V-J day; Rhode Island, and none celebrate Victory In Europe Day, or V-E Day. Personally I think that V-E Day and possibly V-J Day, should be made into a national holiday. Victory in Europe and against the Japanese Empire were both great accomplishments for the Allies and the United States and should be celebrated as such in my opinion. What do you think? Any arguments for or against such an idea?
retiredyank
Member Since: June 29, 2009
entire network: 11,610 Posts
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Posted: Friday, July 12, 2013 - 08:30 PM UTC
Write your president.
MikeyBugs95
Member Since: May 27, 2013
entire network: 2,210 Posts
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Posted: Saturday, July 13, 2013 - 04:20 AM UTC
Well... Good idea but I'm just trying to see what people's opinions are on this, unless this isn't the forum for that.
spacewolfdad
Member Since: May 23, 2010
entire network: 642 Posts
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Posted: Sunday, July 14, 2013 - 10:37 AM UTC
Hi Michael,
The current trend of revisionist history and the politically correct educationalists have more or less eradicated WWI and WWII from the psyche of most young people. So when you ask if they should be holidays I think that most people will give you a blank look as they don't even know what WWI and WWII are about. In this country there is a bit of a controversy over what the government are going to do to celebrate the centenary of the beginning of WWI, what they propose is pretty lame and with regard to WWII you can forget it. The recently unveiled Bomber Command Memorial was paid for by Public Subscription, it is a fine memorial to the 50,000 young men who gave their lives to, in my opinion at least, shorten the war by about 2 years. So while I totally agree with your assertion that there should be holidays to mark the world being saved from evil, I can't see it ever becoming a reality.
All the best,
Paul
The current trend of revisionist history and the politically correct educationalists have more or less eradicated WWI and WWII from the psyche of most young people. So when you ask if they should be holidays I think that most people will give you a blank look as they don't even know what WWI and WWII are about. In this country there is a bit of a controversy over what the government are going to do to celebrate the centenary of the beginning of WWI, what they propose is pretty lame and with regard to WWII you can forget it. The recently unveiled Bomber Command Memorial was paid for by Public Subscription, it is a fine memorial to the 50,000 young men who gave their lives to, in my opinion at least, shorten the war by about 2 years. So while I totally agree with your assertion that there should be holidays to mark the world being saved from evil, I can't see it ever becoming a reality.
All the best,
Paul
AJLaFleche
Member Since: May 05, 2002
entire network: 8,074 Posts
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Posted: Sunday, July 14, 2013 - 11:39 AM UTC
The difficulty is that in establishing either as a holiday would be that we'd be celebrating our beating up of our (now) good allies, Germany and Japan.
The US doesn't celebrate the end of the revolution, any part of the French and Indian War (7 years War across the pond), neither the start nor the finish of the Civil War nor any part of the War of 1812, the Mexican War, the Spanish American War, the Vietnam War, the Korean War nor the various iterations of the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan. It would be hard and somewhat in bad taste to celebrate anything of the Indian Wars, both from their duration and results.
We celebrate Independence Day, though that was not the start of the hostilities. Suffolk County, i.e., Boston, celebrates Bunker Hill Day (despite the fact the colonials were defeated) and Evacuation Day (when the British regulars decided holding Boston would have been too costly in light of Knox's delivery of the cannon from Ticonderoga to George Washington on Dorchester Heights.) Massachusetts still commemorates Lexington and Concord (both in Massachusetts, Ms Bachman) though only occasionally on 19 April.
There are those who would have holidays on 7 December and 4 June.
The US doesn't celebrate the end of the revolution, any part of the French and Indian War (7 years War across the pond), neither the start nor the finish of the Civil War nor any part of the War of 1812, the Mexican War, the Spanish American War, the Vietnam War, the Korean War nor the various iterations of the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan. It would be hard and somewhat in bad taste to celebrate anything of the Indian Wars, both from their duration and results.
We celebrate Independence Day, though that was not the start of the hostilities. Suffolk County, i.e., Boston, celebrates Bunker Hill Day (despite the fact the colonials were defeated) and Evacuation Day (when the British regulars decided holding Boston would have been too costly in light of Knox's delivery of the cannon from Ticonderoga to George Washington on Dorchester Heights.) Massachusetts still commemorates Lexington and Concord (both in Massachusetts, Ms Bachman) though only occasionally on 19 April.
There are those who would have holidays on 7 December and 4 June.
MikeyBugs95
Member Since: May 27, 2013
entire network: 2,210 Posts
KitMaker Network: 345 Posts
Posted: Sunday, July 14, 2013 - 12:24 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Michael,
The current trend of revisionist history and the politically correct educationalists have more or less eradicated WWI and WWII from the psyche of most young people. So when you ask if they should be holidays I think that most people will give you a blank look as they don't even know what WWI and WWII are about. In this country there is a bit of a controversy over what the government are going to do to celebrate the centenary of the beginning of WWI, what they propose is pretty lame and with regard to WWII you can forget it. The recently unveiled Bomber Command Memorial was paid for by Public Subscription, it is a fine memorial to the 50,000 young men who gave their lives to, in my opinion at least, shorten the war by about 2 years. So while I totally agree with your assertion that there should be holidays to mark the world being saved from evil, I can't see it ever becoming a reality.
All the best,
Paul
I completely agree with you. In my high school, I've found that I actually do know more than my history teachers in some subjects. Unfortunately, most subjects have been filtered down to bare essentials without any sustenance. The good thing about something like this is that it may help make more people more aware to the reasons behind a day such as this.
MikeyBugs95
Member Since: May 27, 2013
entire network: 2,210 Posts
KitMaker Network: 345 Posts
Posted: Sunday, July 14, 2013 - 12:37 PM UTC
Quoted Text
The difficulty is that in establishing either as a holiday would be that we'd be celebrating our beating up of our (now) good allies, Germany and Japan.
The US doesn't celebrate the end of the revolution, any part of the French and Indian War (7 years War across the pond), neither the start nor the finish of the Civil War nor any part of the War of 1812, the Mexican War, the Spanish American War, the Vietnam War, the Korean War nor the various iterations of the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan. It would be hard and somewhat in bad taste to celebrate anything of the Indian Wars, both from their duration and results.
We celebrate Independence Day, though that was not the start of the hostilities. Suffolk County, i.e., Boston, celebrates Bunker Hill Day (despite the fact the colonials were defeated) and Evacuation Day (when the British regulars decided holding Boston would have been too costly in light of Knox's delivery of the cannon from Ticonderoga to George Washington on Dorchester Heights.) Massachusetts still commemorates Lexington and Concord (both in Massachusetts, Ms Bachman) though only occasionally on 19 April.
There are those who would have holidays on 7 December and 4 June.
You too have a good point. The political backfire from having a holiday like this. But frankly, the end of the Second World War has more to celebrate about than VietNam and Korea. Had World War Two ended differently, it would've meant a change to the entire world. The US could have ended up being Japanese or German and the UK could've ended being German as well. In Vietnam and Korea, the United States, and other NATO/UN countries, went in after the North invaded the South of both countries. Had the other side won, it would've just meant that one more country would've been communist. Plus the Vietnam War was a highly unpopular war, while the Korean War is "the forgotten war." But I do see your point as well.
retiredyank
Member Since: June 29, 2009
entire network: 11,610 Posts
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Posted: Monday, July 15, 2013 - 12:52 AM UTC
I took advanced history classes and they only skirted WWII. WWI was only mentioned, as to how it started. For that matter, in my advanced American history classes, the Civil War was given less coverage than the American Revolution(which covered a few of the main engagements and the consequences that brought it about). I have found that, if you want to study military history, enlist. Most people take our freedom for granted and would be less than interested in another holiday. If you press the government, they may go for it. Federal holidays mean that they don't have to show up for work, either.
On a side note, just because you conquer and subjugate a nation does not make them your "ally". If that were the case, WWII would never have happened. Actually, war would have ended a thousand years ago.
On a side note, just because you conquer and subjugate a nation does not make them your "ally". If that were the case, WWII would never have happened. Actually, war would have ended a thousand years ago.
AJLaFleche
Member Since: May 05, 2002
entire network: 8,074 Posts
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Posted: Monday, July 15, 2013 - 01:11 AM UTC
Bringing up history in school...another problem is our reliance on standardized tests, MCAS here in Massachusetts.
The school systems are themselves graded and rewarded or punished on how well their students do in these tests. Graduation is in some cases dependent on these tests above other scholastic scores. Self preservation from administrators forces teachers to teach to the test. History falls behind math and science where answers are always black and white.
Minutiae, I fear, would be the focus as I recall from a standardized test on The Red Badge of Courage I had to take some 46 years ago. Instead of the meaning of the book and what the author was trying to say, there were questions like how many pairs of socks did Henry Fleming's mother pack for him with no follow up as to why so few socks.
I suspect these tests would be more interested in "At exactly what time did the first bomb fall on Pearl Harbor?" rather than asking about the actions and conflicting interests of the Empire of Japan and the United States that led to this attack.
The school systems are themselves graded and rewarded or punished on how well their students do in these tests. Graduation is in some cases dependent on these tests above other scholastic scores. Self preservation from administrators forces teachers to teach to the test. History falls behind math and science where answers are always black and white.
Minutiae, I fear, would be the focus as I recall from a standardized test on The Red Badge of Courage I had to take some 46 years ago. Instead of the meaning of the book and what the author was trying to say, there were questions like how many pairs of socks did Henry Fleming's mother pack for him with no follow up as to why so few socks.
I suspect these tests would be more interested in "At exactly what time did the first bomb fall on Pearl Harbor?" rather than asking about the actions and conflicting interests of the Empire of Japan and the United States that led to this attack.
spacewolfdad
Member Since: May 23, 2010
entire network: 642 Posts
KitMaker Network: 43 Posts
Posted: Monday, July 15, 2013 - 02:57 AM UTC
Hi Everyone,
Being in my 60s I can look back on my childhood and compare modern childhood with all the intervening years of my experience. When I was a child most of the fathers of my friends had fought in WWII in some capacity. We all had mementos and paraphernalia from the war, all the comics and books were laden with daring do missions carried out by clean cut, heroic characters. This was our staple and we grew up to love the stories and made the models. Come the advent of the Rock and Pop generation all this died a death, the next generation were the grandchildren, or great-grandchildren of our generation's fathers. The relevance of what they did was lost and had no relevance to these children. As we now have the Iraq War/ Afghanistan generation, WWII (forget WWI) has no relevance whatsoever and is the equivalent of ancient history. It is all a shame and perhaps we are all to blame in some respect, I never made a living history recording of any of my father's contemporaries, or asked for copies of their wartime photographs. I regret this bitterly as I met some exceptional men, survivors of Japanese POW camps, a navigator on Lancaster bombers who made a 'home run' from a German POW camp, all this amazing stuff that is now lost forever. I hope we can honour the fallen on the relevant anniversaries, but I doubt if it will take place to any extent as it has no real relevance to today's world.
All the best,
Paul
Being in my 60s I can look back on my childhood and compare modern childhood with all the intervening years of my experience. When I was a child most of the fathers of my friends had fought in WWII in some capacity. We all had mementos and paraphernalia from the war, all the comics and books were laden with daring do missions carried out by clean cut, heroic characters. This was our staple and we grew up to love the stories and made the models. Come the advent of the Rock and Pop generation all this died a death, the next generation were the grandchildren, or great-grandchildren of our generation's fathers. The relevance of what they did was lost and had no relevance to these children. As we now have the Iraq War/ Afghanistan generation, WWII (forget WWI) has no relevance whatsoever and is the equivalent of ancient history. It is all a shame and perhaps we are all to blame in some respect, I never made a living history recording of any of my father's contemporaries, or asked for copies of their wartime photographs. I regret this bitterly as I met some exceptional men, survivors of Japanese POW camps, a navigator on Lancaster bombers who made a 'home run' from a German POW camp, all this amazing stuff that is now lost forever. I hope we can honour the fallen on the relevant anniversaries, but I doubt if it will take place to any extent as it has no real relevance to today's world.
All the best,
Paul
AFVFan
Member Since: May 17, 2012
entire network: 1,980 Posts
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Posted: Saturday, July 20, 2013 - 06:14 AM UTC
In an oblique way of answering your question think on this.
When you have a military dedicated forum as widely visited as Armorama, and no one thought enough about VE day to post a thread for it, what's the chances of getting it made into a national holiday?
When you have a military dedicated forum as widely visited as Armorama, and no one thought enough about VE day to post a thread for it, what's the chances of getting it made into a national holiday?
retiredyank
Member Since: June 29, 2009
entire network: 11,610 Posts
KitMaker Network: 3,657 Posts
Posted: Saturday, July 20, 2013 - 08:04 AM UTC
There is another problem. The Government can only have "x" amount of Federal holidays. An example is that, in the South, MLK Day was celebrated as Robert E. Lee's birthday. In one or two states, this was not changed until the '50s. So, what two holidays are you looking to get rid of?
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