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Ostfront v Pacific Theater
panzerconor
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Posted: Friday, September 21, 2012 - 01:58 PM UTC
So, all you other history buffs out here, I've got a question. I was talking with a few people today about the worst places to be in WWII, and it boiled down to one thing: Which was more of a hell than the other? The Eastern Front or the Pacific Theater? Personally, I think the Eastern Front was easily a worse place to be, but I want to hear some other opinions...

Go crazy
retiredyank
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Posted: Friday, September 21, 2012 - 11:52 PM UTC
I would have to say that the Pacific Theater was worse. The winters in Europe were bitterly cold, but the weather in the Pacific was horrible all year long. There was also malaria present in the PTO, as well as other dangerous wild life. The terrain was worse in the Pacific Theater. The sand turned to a glutenous soup and the forests/jungles were thick. Of course, this offered more cover for both sides. However, the defenders in the Pacific Theater had been present long enough to be dialed in on every blade of grass. I would be juxtaposed to the Bocage country in France. But, there are only instances of bad terrain in the ETO.
Tojo72
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Posted: Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 01:25 AM UTC
Nice discussion,but very subjective,it depends on the individual soldier,which environment he hated worse,mind numbing cold and snow,or suffocating heat and humidity.In both of the theaters you mentioned neither side gave much quarter,it was a fight to the death.You could say its a toss up.

As Matt says western Europe was probably better then the two you mentioned,not that any combat was good ,or it was a picnic either.
russamotto
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Posted: Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 02:05 AM UTC
If you are far away from home and getting shot at, I don't know if it matters where you are. Its going to be the worst place in the world.
retiredyank
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Posted: Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 03:21 AM UTC
I'm looking at it from a third person standpoint. That is the only way of having a clear cut discrepancy.
panzerconor
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Posted: Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 03:40 AM UTC
The ETO was hands down the better gig compared to the Pacific, no argument there. I was talking about the Eastern Front though, Russia, Ukraine, Hungary, ect.
retiredyank
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Posted: Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 06:08 AM UTC
I did not mean to exclude Eastern Front. It was not always winter in Russian. Winter is simply the extreme.
panzerconor
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Posted: Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 06:21 AM UTC
That question turned into a huge conversation yesterday hahaha. Both front's had their weather & fanatic resistance, I still think it was a tougher fight for the Germans at least. They had to deal with partisans, almost always being outnumbered, & the fact that at least the Allies took prisoners in the Pacific (on the off chance the Japanese did surrender), but it was a practically a death sentence for either side to surrender in the East.

I love these conversations

-Conor
retiredyank
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Posted: Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 06:24 AM UTC
The US was likely to kill POWs in the PTO. Tempers were hot, after Dec. 7th. As well, if captured in the Pacific Theater, Allied soldiers faced torture and extremely poor living conditions.
panzerconor
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Posted: Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 07:30 AM UTC
That's true. I don't know, it'd be best to get a bunch of veterans from there to sit around and argue about it haha, they've got that "hands on" experience
retiredyank
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Posted: Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 01:33 PM UTC
Find them fast. My grandfather signed up, when he was 16; and he's not expected to be around next year.
russamotto
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Posted: Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 03:05 PM UTC
I think the biggest difference was in the force commanders. On the Eastern front, you had Stalin and Hitler facing off against each other. There were no points of isolation. Secret police were active behind the lines on both sides to make certain everyone did their part. It was a continuous battle. In the Pacific, Japanese forces were isolated. As bad as the fighting was, it was generally limited to the island itself until late in the war when the Kamikaze threat appeared. Had Japan itself been invaded, I don't think there could have been a comparison at all.
mmeier
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Posted: Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 11:01 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I did not mean to exclude Eastern Front. It was not always winter in Russian. Winter is simply the extreme.


As a Ukranian co-worker once said: "Russia has three seasons: Snow, Mud and Flies"

retiredyank
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Posted: Sunday, September 23, 2012 - 12:07 AM UTC
I've actually been to Russia and the weather was quite pleasant. T-shirt and jeans pleasant. No snow, no mud and no flies.
JClapp
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Posted: Sunday, September 23, 2012 - 08:15 AM UTC
...And I lived in the Marshall Islands for a number of years, and the weather there was almost always wonderful. 85 degrees and breezy every day.
Only once a typhoon came through and smashed the place up. It has that in common with south Florida.

Warfare makes hell on Earth out of anywhere, even paradise.
mmeier
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Posted: Monday, September 24, 2012 - 03:27 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I've actually been to Russia and the weather was quite pleasant. T-shirt and jeans pleasant. No snow, no mud and no flies.


Never been there. But Grandpa did not like region, weather or locals
panzerconor
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Posted: Monday, September 24, 2012 - 03:52 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I've actually been to Russia and the weather was quite pleasant. T-shirt and jeans pleasant. No snow, no mud and no flies.


Never been there. But Grandpa did not like region, weather or locals


Your grandpa fought over there?
mmeier
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Posted: Monday, September 24, 2012 - 05:27 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I've actually been to Russia and the weather was quite pleasant. T-shirt and jeans pleasant. No snow, no mud and no flies.


Never been there. But Grandpa did not like region, weather or locals


Your grandpa fought over there?


Me old (40+ years) Kraut Some of the family fought in Russia and two are still "there", some in the West, one was shot down during BoB. Mothers side mostly since fathers side are miners. And since grandma married twice I have a large "mothers side", quite a few still around at age 80+

retiredyank
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Posted: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 - 10:11 PM UTC
What you will find is that the Ostfront had foul weather for a little more than one season, possibly stretched to two. In the Pacific, the weather was always a pressure cooker.
pseudorealityx
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Posted: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 - 11:54 PM UTC

Quoted Text

What you will find is that the Ostfront had foul weather for a little more than one season, possibly stretched to two. In the Pacific, the weather was always a pressure cooker.


This is nonsense Matt. Most of the these areas in the pacific endure seasonal monsoon seasons, but the dry seasons are warm, but not terrible.

Here's the average temperatures on Iwo Jima.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iwo_Jima#Geographic_features

Here's the average temperature on Singapore.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore#Geography

Here's the climate in Burma.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Burma#Climate

Lots of people seem to think Hawaii (Pearl Harbor) has a pretty nice climate too. They go on vacations there and stuff.
retiredyank
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Posted: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 - 11:29 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

What you will find is that the Ostfront had foul weather for a little more than one season, possibly stretched to two. In the Pacific, the weather was always a pressure cooker.


This is nonsense Matt. Most of the these areas in the pacific endure seasonal monsoon seasons, but the dry seasons are warm, but not terrible.

Here's the average temperatures on Iwo Jima.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iwo_Jima#Geographic_features

Here's the average temperature on Singapore.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore#Geography

Here's the climate in Burma.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Burma#Climate

Lots of people seem to think Hawaii (Pearl Harbor) has a pretty nice climate too. They go on vacations there and stuff.

You are correct. I was basing my observation mainly on Indochina, which has nice weather in some parts.
pseudorealityx
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Posted: Thursday, September 27, 2012 - 01:52 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

What you will find is that the Ostfront had foul weather for a little more than one season, possibly stretched to two. In the Pacific, the weather was always a pressure cooker.


This is nonsense Matt. Most of the these areas in the pacific endure seasonal monsoon seasons, but the dry seasons are warm, but not terrible.

Here's the average temperatures on Iwo Jima.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iwo_Jima#Geographic_features

Here's the average temperature on Singapore.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore#Geography

Here's the climate in Burma.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Burma#Climate

Lots of people seem to think Hawaii (Pearl Harbor) has a pretty nice climate too. They go on vacations there and stuff.

You are correct. I was basing my observation mainly on Indochina, which has nice weather in some parts.



We didn't fight in IndoChina. Japan still held Indochina at the end of the war. What are you talking about Matt?
retiredyank
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Posted: Thursday, September 27, 2012 - 02:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

What you will find is that the Ostfront had foul weather for a little more than one season, possibly stretched to two. In the Pacific, the weather was always a pressure cooker.


This is nonsense Matt. Most of the these areas in the pacific endure seasonal monsoon seasons, but the dry seasons are warm, but not terrible.

Here's the average temperatures on Iwo Jima.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iwo_Jima#Geographic_features

Here's the average temperature on Singapore.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore#Geography

Here's the climate in Burma.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Burma#Climate

Lots of people seem to think Hawaii (Pearl Harbor) has a pretty nice climate too. They go on vacations there and stuff.

You are correct. I was basing my observation mainly on Indochina, which has nice weather in some parts.



We didn't fight in IndoChina. Japan still held Indochina at the end of the war. What are you talking about Matt?

The Allies were in IndoChina, specifically the Commonwealth, the French and the US.
http://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=44
pseudorealityx
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Posted: Thursday, September 27, 2012 - 03:41 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

What you will find is that the Ostfront had foul weather for a little more than one season, possibly stretched to two. In the Pacific, the weather was always a pressure cooker.


This is nonsense Matt. Most of the these areas in the pacific endure seasonal monsoon seasons, but the dry seasons are warm, but not terrible.

Here's the average temperatures on Iwo Jima.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iwo_Jima#Geographic_features

Here's the average temperature on Singapore.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore#Geography

Here's the climate in Burma.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Burma#Climate

Lots of people seem to think Hawaii (Pearl Harbor) has a pretty nice climate too. They go on vacations there and stuff.

You are correct. I was basing my observation mainly on Indochina, which has nice weather in some parts.



We didn't fight in IndoChina. Japan still held Indochina at the end of the war. What are you talking about Matt?

The Allies were in IndoChina, specifically the Commonwealth, the French and the US.
http://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=44


Matt, you're being ridiculous. Read your own link. That "campaign" was 3 days long from the Japanese showing up to end of the fighting. There were ZERO US or British troops. And French IndoChina was already Vichy controlled...

The mention of Commonwealth troops are those in Burma, and the mention of US troops are those in the Philippines.

Again... what are you talking about?
retiredyank
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Posted: Thursday, September 27, 2012 - 05:22 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

What you will find is that the Ostfront had foul weather for a little more than one season, possibly stretched to two. In the Pacific, the weather was always a pressure cooker.


This is nonsense Matt. Most of the these areas in the pacific endure seasonal monsoon seasons, but the dry seasons are warm, but not terrible.

Here's the average temperatures on Iwo Jima.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iwo_Jima#Geographic_features

Here's the average temperature on Singapore.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore#Geography

Here's the climate in Burma.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Burma#Climate

Lots of people seem to think Hawaii (Pearl Harbor) has a pretty nice climate too. They go on vacations there and stuff.

You are correct. I was basing my observation mainly on Indochina, which has nice weather in some parts.



We didn't fight in IndoChina. Japan still held Indochina at the end of the war. What are you talking about Matt?

The Allies were in IndoChina, specifically the Commonwealth, the French and the US.
http://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=44


Matt, you're being ridiculous. Read your own link. That "campaign" was 3 days long from the Japanese showing up to end of the fighting. There were ZERO US or British troops. And French IndoChina was already Vichy controlled...

The mention of Commonwealth troops are those in Burma, and the mention of US troops are those in the Philippines.

Again... what are you talking about?




http://www.ww2f.com/cbi-theater/26273-japanese-invasion-french-indochina.html
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-Silk-Escape-Map-Indochina-Siam-/160586568886
http://www.history.army.mil/brochures/burma42/burma42.htm
http://www.worldwar2database.com/html/burma.htm
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA-C-Burma45/index.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/burma_campaign_01.shtml
http://www.discoveryindochina.com/maps/index.html
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