History Club
Military history and past events only. Rants or inflamitory comments will be removed.
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Barbarossa
mikeli125
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England - North West, United Kingdom
Member Since: December 24, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 05:45 AM UTC
Jut been reading a few books about the start of the soviet campaign and couldnt help but
wonder what the situation would have been had Stalin heeded the intel reports stating that
invason was imment had all the front line troops been ready and the reserves in place do you think that Blizkrieg would have been as succesfull?
blaster76
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Texas, United States
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Posted: Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 06:46 PM UTC
More people would have died but no, the Germans would still have cut thru them like a hot knife thru butter. Russian resistance would have stiffened sooner and the Germans would not have gotten as far as they did. So maybe in the long run the war would have shortened over there
blaster76
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Texas, United States
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Posted: Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 06:51 PM UTC
Oh here is a counter question. The Germans started the campaign a month late courtesy of Mussolini getting his butt kicked in Greece. What do you think would have happened if the Barbarossa campaign would have started the middle of May instead of late June? Me, I 'm going with the fall of MOscow and as an extreme deposing Stalin and the Russians suing for peace. Scary isn't it?
210cav
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Virginia, United States
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Posted: Friday, October 31, 2003 - 03:19 AM UTC
I do not see how the Greek delay caused the horrible fate suffered by the Germans in Russia.. The German were materially ill prepared to fight an extend campaign in Russia. It did not matter when they started. They had neither the doctrine nor the equipment to engage in a long protracted struggle. Their industrial base was that of a productive small country (Germany is only about the size of the state of Pennsylvania). The air/ land military combination was superb in running over nations of an equal or smalller size. They did not freeze during the winter because someone thought the campaign out from start to finish. Add the meddling of Hitler ably assisted by his compliant general staff painting an overly optimistic picture of an easy victory and you form the seeds of the disaster. Why go into Russia at all? Stalin was suuplying the Germans with food and oil. It made no sense then it makes no sense now.
DJ.
Ranger74
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Tennessee, United States
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Posted: Friday, October 31, 2003 - 06:19 AM UTC
The overall picture of the Soviets defeating the Germans I do not belive would have changed if the Germans had not had to delay the start of BARBAROSSA. I do belivee they would have captured Moscow and placed a serious dent in the Russians ability to mount their first winter counteroffensive. Just south of Moscow was the key railroad junctions that allowed north-south (i.e., lateral movement) rail movement behind the Soviet lines. Sort of like, "All railroads led to Moscow." The Germans were rolling with their final efforts against Moscow when the Fall rains brought them all but to a halt. Additionally, it would have been six more weeks of campaigning before the Siberian reinforcements arrived. The Siberian reinforcements were triggered by Japanese actions, and not German actions.

With the poor state of German mobilization for war: still operating a peacetime economy, still too much reliance on horse drawn tactical transport, and few real 4x4 and 6x6 trucks, they were doomed during all but the Summer campaigning periods. They literally wore out their transport, which is why they had to rely so much on captured equipment.

I can just hear Ted Kennedy stating, "Hitler entered Russia on false pretenses. He has lied to the Duestch Volk. What is his exit plan! (hiccup)"