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Most Memorable Pacific Theater Battle
210cav
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Posted: Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 02:27 PM UTC
Well, we received some outstanding entries for the same question on the European War. Try this one on your thinking cap. Land,sea or air are fair game for discussion. Lot to choose from. Give us some idea why you believe a given battle is memorable.
thanks
DJ
SS-74
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Posted: Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 03:24 PM UTC
I will go for Midway, and Guadalcanal (SP?) Pivotal turning point in the Pacific.

chip250
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Posted: Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 03:56 PM UTC
I am leaning twords Okinawa. I think I read somewhere that it was a larger invasion than D-DAY.

Also what about the Phillipines, before the American surrendered there. The Flipinos, put up a hell of a fight before, during, and after, Japanese Occupation.
But, thats just what I hear.

~Chip :-)
Halfyank
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Posted: Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 05:56 PM UTC
The engagement of Taffy Three in the Battle of Leyte Gulf. A half dozen Amerian destroyers and destroyer escorts covering near helpless escort carriers going up against an entire fleet including the Yamato! By a strange coincidence it happened on the anniversary of the Charge of the Light Brigade. The courage those destroyer men showed gives me shivers just thinking about it. It might not be the most famous of the pacific battles, but it should be.

blaster76
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Posted: Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 04:31 PM UTC
My first inclination was for Midway because of the overwhelming American victory, but further thought causes me to elect Coral Sea. Tactically it was a tie, but strategically it was extremely significant in that it was the stopping point of Japanese advancement in the war.
zer0_co0l
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Posted: Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 06:17 PM UTC
what about pearl harbor?

wasnt that the start of it all..

everyone knows about that one.
most people never heard of guadalcanal...
BSPRU
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Posted: Monday, October 13, 2003 - 01:12 PM UTC
Bataan and the Slowing of Japan's advance into the Pacific set up all the early successes of the Allied forces in that theater.
Brian
BSPRU
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Posted: Monday, October 13, 2003 - 01:20 PM UTC
Two books on the Early campaign of thePacific war come to mind "But Not in Shame" by John Toland and "The Ragged Rugged Warriors" by Martin Caidin. Describing the difficulties of the allies during the first six months of the Pacific war and earlier with the Air campaign in Caidin's book
brian
Tapper
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Posted: Monday, October 13, 2003 - 02:58 PM UTC
I would have to say Iwo Jima and Midway.
Cokes
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Posted: Monday, October 13, 2003 - 10:52 PM UTC
In May 1942, when the Japanese tried to take Port Moreby by sea and failed during the Battle of the Coral Sea, they then tried to take it by traversing New Guinea from North to South across the Owen Stanley ranges.

The vastly outnumbered soldiers, poorly prepared and lightly equipped, endured enormous stress, sleep deprivation, hostile climate and terrain, and contending with the worst tropical diseases, managed to repel what seemes a far superior force, defeated the Japanese on the Kokoda trail. The Battle of Kokoda marekd the turning point of the war in the South West Pacific. Although losses were heavy, Port Moresby, which would have provided the perfect point to launch attacks on Australia, was again secure.
210cav
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Posted: Monday, October 13, 2003 - 11:46 PM UTC
I am surpised that no one hit Tarawa as a key battle. If we lost that one, the amphibious invasion concept would have been dealt a seroius setback.
warlock0322
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Posted: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 12:42 AM UTC
I would have to say Midway was the Memorable battle in the Pacific Theater, but maybe not for the obvious reasons.
I say Midway because of the damage that was done to the Japenese Fleet during the battle. Sinking and or damaging all four of their carriers was paramount IMHO. This was something that they never really recovered from.
In an Island Hopping Campaign the logistics must be a nightmare. Units must be resupplied and without being able to control Sea lanes and the Air you would have Units sitting on an Island just waiting to be taken.
Just my 2 cents though
Paul
210cav
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Posted: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 07:00 AM UTC
Paul--- nice choice. I see there is increase coverage of the Wake Island Battle. Taped a show last night from the History Channel on it. Also, several new books coming out on the loss of Wake. A tragic example of "imperial over reach."
thanks
DJ
chip250
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Posted: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 09:14 AM UTC

Quoted Text

several new books coming out on the loss of Wake. A tragic example of "imperial over reach."



We actually learned about Wake Island in International Relations class, it was one of our little victories in our Imperialism times! Interesting tid bit for ya. We also got Guam and Cuba.

~Chip :-)
210cav
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Posted: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 12:10 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

several new books coming out on the loss of Wake. A tragic example of "imperial over reach."



We actually learned about Wake Island in International Relations class, it was one of our little victories in our Imperialism times! Interesting tid bit for ya. We also got Guam and Cuba.

~Chip :-)



Chip-- I will assume you are speaking of the post Spanish American War. If so, as I recall, the US took possession of Puerto Rico, the Phillipines, Wake, and Guam. Imperial Over Reach refers to spreading yourself too thin. In the case of Wake, we fortified the sand bar (believe me it is a small piece of terrain in a very big ocean) with a Marine Defense Battalion, civilian work force and several Wildcat aircraft just before the Japanese attacked. While the small force held the invader at bay for several go around a task force hastened to evacuate them from the island. For reasons which remain questionable, the task force never made it to the island and the Marines surrendered to a brutal captivity. Can some one else chime in if I misspoke?
thanks
DJ
chip250
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Posted: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 12:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Chip-- I will assume you are speaking of the post Spanish American War.



Very good 210!

I would also like to add another battle that people are forgetting.

The Battle of Leyte Gulf!


~Chip :-)
210cav
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Posted: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 02:50 AM UTC
Chip-- I catch on real quick sometimes. How about the useless battle for the island of Pelelieu?
DJ
Easy_Co
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Posted: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 07:03 AM UTC
Id go for Midway for many of the reasons given, Just a point back in the seventies I went to the Soloman Isles,Honiara is the main isle fantastic place it is just how it was left after the battle, at low tide theres sunken destroyers and altypes of landing craft, in the jungle theres artillery pieces everywhere trenchworks with rusted m.g.s. rifles steel helmets one trench still had a jap plane crashed into it.The locals use willys Jeeps as taxis they just go down the beach and un crate one there is a hill on the isle not very big but at the bottom is a placard telling how many died taking and defending it I dont remember the numbers but I was shocked sort of knocks it home. sorry idrifted of subject but the topic braught it all back.
210cav
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Posted: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 07:24 AM UTC
That is an amazing vignette about the Solomon Islands. I thought that the Japanese came through and removed all the sunked ships they could find in the 60's for scrap iron. I once again, believe we have some great choices here. Like to hear some feedback on the invasion and conquest of Pelelieu in the Palaus Island chain. Amazing waste of men and resources IMHO.
thanks
DJ
AJLaFleche
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Posted: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 08:02 AM UTC
I'm with Warlock (and others) on Midway. The loss of the Japanese carrier force doomed them. Coral Sea had shown that fleets could duke it out beyond the horizopn and that mean aircraft and in the Pacific that meant aircraft carriers. From Midway on, the Japanese were on the defensive. Had the Japanese won at Midway, it would have been the United States without a carrier force and no way to support the island hopping campaign that wouldlead to the Japanese capitulation. At best, we'd have been several months behind ourselve, Pearl Harbor would have been open to additiona air attacks. At worst, we might have had to negotiate a peace.
Halfyank
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Posted: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 09:19 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Had the Japanese won at Midway, it would have been the United States without a carrier force and no way to support the island hopping campaign that wouldlead to the Japanese capitulation. At best, we'd have been several months behind ourselve, Pearl Harbor would have been open to additiona air attacks. At worst, we might have had to negotiate a peace



Al, that depends on what you mean by "lost." If we had lost our carriers then what you wrote is probably true, though I highly doubt we would have negotiated a peace. If all we did is lose Midway then this wouldn't be the case. The ONLY reason for MIdway was as a lure for the two fleets. The base itself wasn't all THAT important. The Japanese felt that we HAD to defend it, and we did, but if they had captured it without sinking Yorktown, Enterprise, and Hornet, then it might have been a little more difficult to start the island hoping campaign. What made Midway so important as a battle was the loss of the four carriers. With those four ships, and their irreplaceable pilots, then Quadalcanal and the road back would have been MUCH more difficult. We'd still have one, but maybe six months to a year longer.

How is this for a "what if?" What if MIdway hadn't turned out as it had. Would we have dropped far more atomic bombs than the two we did? Would it ultimately been worse for Japan to have "won" this battle if that would have been the final outcome?

AJLaFleche
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Posted: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 04:13 PM UTC

Quoted Text

[ what you mean by "lost." If we had lost our carriers then what you wrote is probably true,


Yes, that's what I meant, losing our carriers


Quoted Text

How is this for a "what if?" What if MIdway hadn't turned out as it had. Would we have dropped far more atomic bombs than the two we did? Would it ultimately been worse for Japan to have "won" this battle if that would have been the final outcome?



In August 1945 we had exactly 2 usable nuclear weapons. In order to deliver them, we had to succeed in the isand hoping to reach Tinian and a base from which the B-29's could deploy. What's the line, "For lack of a nail, a shoe was lost. For lack of a shoe, a horse was lost. For lack of a horse, a rider was lost. For lack of a rider, a battle was lost. For lack of a battle, the kingdom was lost"?
Without the carriers to support the campaign, we would not have reached Tinian and the war would have been either negotiated or seriously prolonged and likely have had to include na invasion and all the reultant loss of life, on both sides, that that would have entailed.
Jeepney
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Posted: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 05:23 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Also what about the Phillipines, before the American surrendered there. The Flipinos, put up a hell of a fight before, during, and after, Japanese Occupation.
But, thats just what I hear.
~Chip :-)



You heard right Chip. My late grandpa was a soldier during WWII. They spent most of their time harassing Japanese supply lines and outposts after the Americans pulled out. They had to resort to guerilla tactics in the face of Japanese might.

He once told me that he was captured by the Japanese. During an "interview" with the prison camp commandant, they both found out that they were amateur photographers. My grandpa taught him a camera trick or two. In return he was freed. That was a lucky break. I wouldn't be here otherwise

I've been to Corregidor Island a.k.a. "The Rock". It's a tadpole-shaped fortified island that guards the entrance to Manila Bay. It is now a shrine to the souls lost during the war. The big guns there are impressive! I want to go back and take a lot of pictures. One of MacArthur's cars is preserved in the museum on the island. The network of tunnels and caves are also preserved. A lot of Japanese died in them when they blew the caves up so they wouldn't be captured.

One of the major battles in the big Battle of Leyte Gulf, the Battle of Surigao Strait, occured a few miles off the coast of my hometown of Surigao City. Tales abound of sunken wrecks stacked on top of one another in the shark-infested waters.

Damage to Manila was extensive. Most historical buildings had to be rebuilt. In fact, I'll be getting married in the oldest church in Manila. It was totally destroyed during World War II but it was reconstructed.

We still have some Beeps, jeeps and deuce-and-a-halfs running around here. Most do menial tasks like garbage collection or transportation in very difficult terrain. A 1:1 softskin collector will definitely find a lot to collect here.

Nice to see the attention our side of the pond is getting. Nice topic DJ!
210cav
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Posted: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 11:49 PM UTC
Jeepney--- you have to post some photos from Corregidor. I bet that is impressive.
thanks
DJ
PS-- Best of luck with married life.
Jeepney
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Posted: Thursday, October 16, 2003 - 12:34 PM UTC
Thanks DJ

My compatriot GIBeregovoy is planning a trip next April. We'll definitely post pics ASAP.