Can you pit and represent textured armour if it not a part of the mould in an out of the box category?

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Somewhere, someone, somehow, some group would probably allow it in an event's rules. Personally, I think not as this goes beyond the spirit of the Out of the Box concept. Best to check with the host rules before proceeding...

Gunnie

I have a similar problem. I'm currently building the Tamiya T-55, straight from the box...

No big deal, except for the fact I added some welds to the engine deck and around the grab handles on the turret..

One of my fellow club members also did and he had no difficulties entering them in the "straight from the box" categories at most modeling contests, so I guess adding some texture would also be acceptible..

I personally draw the line when you start adding stuff like panels, cables, .. or replace parts included in the box by other parts...

Yeah, I hear you. I guess the problem starts with the semantics of the term 'Out of the Box'. Some really get literal with the meaning and what seem to be small additions turn out to be big items to others.

I often wish there was a splitter between categories - like a basic class and an unlimited class - but that probably would only add more confusion to the mix. It would take all the fun outta the hobby and participation...

Gunnie

Indeed... Some do use terms very strickly. I only had a discussion about "Straight from the box" construction and he indicated adding wear and tear to fenders or track pads was not considered straight from the box building...
But neither is using glue so the final score was 1-1...

So normally I see welds, wear and tear, and weathering as straight from the box, and PE, brass, resin and other sets as scratchbuild/detailed models...

Straight from IPMS USA Rule book:

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Code:

III. Special Categories


OUT-OF-THE-BOX entries will be governed by the following rules:


KITS. Any commercially available kit may be used. The number of categories incorporating
Out-of-the-Box awards will be determined by the Host Chapter and the National Contest
Committee.


FINISH. All finishing techniques are allowed. Decals other than those included with the kit 
may be used. Insignia, markings, and instrument panels may be hand-painted instead of 
decaled. Weathering is permitted.


CONSTRUCTION. The modeler may fill seams and gaps; sand off rivets; drill out gun ports, 
exhaust pipes, or other appropriate openings; thin to scale such parts as trailing edges, 
flaps, and doors; add rigging and antennas; and add simple tape or decal seat belts in the 
cockpit of an aircraft or the interior of a vehicle (NO commercial or modeler-manufactured 
hardware - e.g., buckles, etc.).


IT IS NOT PERMITTED TO: vacuform, manufacture, or replace any part, or substitute parts 
from another kit; cut or separate canopies, surfaces, hatches, doors, etc. (no major 
surgery); combine a standard kit with a conversion kit; add anything other than specified on 
the instruction sheet except as shown in Section C above.


INSTRUCTION SHEETS. Modelers must attach the kit instruction sheet to the entry form. 
Models entered without an attached kit instruction sheet will not be considered for an Out-of-
the-Box award.
 

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It looks like pitting is fine, since that would be considered weathering. If in doubt, don't do it.

For what its worth, I think out of the box should be out of the box.. As the kit was pacakaged... I think using other decals takes the kit out of the catagory.. I know, some like to be historically correct.. But straight out of the box catagory should be just that... Whats in the box.

Dave

I agree. OOB is OOB, no alterations, no additions, no subtractions that aren't a part of the kit instructions.

Regarding this OOTB subject I pose to you this thought:

The major companies (e.g., Tamiya, DML, AFV Clun, Tristar, etc) are continually increasing what is offered in the box as "basic". Hence when does the subject of OOTB end when you get PE, metal tracks, vacuform, and much, much more.

Just a thought for those who organize contests and such. I have been told about the Tristar PzKpfz I is an example that will challenge these rules.

Dave

Now days I just enter my stuff in the closest general catagory. I used to enter in OOTB but have found that I have just as much of a chance to place in an open catagory. I find I enjoy comparing my stuff to similar items on the table. Sometimes, in OOTB, tanks are in competition with planes or ships. I do not think that is the best way to compare models. Yes, I take my chances against those that have all the AM stuff available. So what? I feel good about what I do. I build each model to the best of my ability at that time. So I enter each model into the best competition I can find at any given show. As long as I do my best and place my model against the best, I learn and improve each time. It is sort of funny though, after I enter a contest, I sort of forget my stuff and enjoy all of the beautiful work that is shown. There are many, many true artists in our modeling community to enjoy. Well I had better get off my soapbox now and enjoy the night(morning?).
capnjock

Doesn't a lot of this also depend upon what you know? For example I know quite a bit about Russian armor, a reasonable bit about German armor but very little about allied. If the judge in the OOB category is also of a similar experience set he/she may just not know exactly what should or shouldn't be on a kit - especially if you have only altered a very few/minor parts. I like the idea that an instruction sheet must be included with the entry but how many judges are going to go over the whole kit with this in their hand - few I bet!

I guess a lot of this depends upon how honest the modeller is when he submits to an OOB category. Personaly I agree with TwistedFate, if it aint in the box it doesnt get used.

Lee

I would go with that to.. So no other decals as well..

Problem remains when the manufacturers start adding PE and/or metal barrels and tracks to the kit, it could technically be considered OOTB, but personally I would oppose to that..

Here in Belgium I know of no contests where building instructions need to be added, in most cases it would only slow everything down.
In general entries are always accepted in the category the builder defines, unless it is very obvious there were alterations made to the kit, but I have seen many times judges checking the models on the tabels before the judging, and moving a model to a different category...

This is a prime example of how the instructions would be used in judging. That would prove it's still OOB.
Personally, I believe that OOB means if it's not in the box, it's not on the model. Period. The rapidly increasing costs of our hobby make it difficult for many people to use aftermarket items. I for one simply can't stomach the thought of doubling or tripling the cost of the kit itself....I'd like to see more OOB.
That said, I do believe there should be some consideration given to a category for lightly modified models. If you add Fruil track to an otherwise OOB model, it shouldn't have to compete with a major conversion featuring every kind of aftermarked accessory under the sun. I've seen this same phenomenon at car shows where a stereo change and a wheel change places a car in modified category against other cars with chopped tops, suicide doors, and side-opening hoods....hardly fair.
Ok, Ok, I'll get down from the soapbox now :-)

FINISH. All finishing techniques are allowed.

I'd say this would allow texturing armor plates. It would technically be a finishing technique since you're not actually adding anything to the model.

Here in New England, the norm is to add an OOB award to the major categories . I have not been to a contest where there is a separate one class OOB class. Decals are allowed to be changed since the application of a decal is the same whether it cam in the box or an envelope afterwards. Also, decals can fail through age or manufacturing defect. Decalling is judged on application and finish which would be the same regardless of source.
I would say that texturing would be admissible but added weld lines made of putty or plastic would not.
In addition to the National rules, we have the following construction rules for our OOB mini-contest:

1. The entry must be constructed from a SINGLE PLASTIC KIT available to the general public and must be essentially assembled as specified in the kit instructions. Only "Figures" may be non-plastic.
2. NO ADDITIONAL parts from any other kit or source may be added or substituted. Non-plastic pieces may be used if included in the kit.
3. PUTTY and scrap plastic may be used for repair and elimination of seams and mold marks. Putty and plastic may not be used to create new shapes.
4. The model may be PAINTED in any colors or patterns irrespective of the kit instructions or box art.
5. The modeler may add or substitute DECALS from one additional source (i.e., another kit or after-market decal sheet). This source must be listed on the entry form.
6. OPERATING FEATURES and motorization options may be deleted. Unrealistic holes or slots may be closed with sheet plastic and/or putty.
7. STRETCHED SPRUE may be added to the model only to represent Aerials or Antennas and/or for the repair of panel lines.
8. WEIGHT may be added for the purpose of balance. Structural reinforcement that is not visible to the casual observer is permissible.
9. Parts may not be RELOCATED from their intended position unless the kit instruction sheet is demonstrably in error. Judges may require documentation.
10. Panels, doors, hatches, flaps, canopies, etc. may not be CUT or opened unless the instruction sheet invites the cut as an option. However, drilling out of gun barrels, exhaust pipes, etc. is regarded as a basic skill and is permissible.
Source: http://www.wwmodelclub.org/Fall.html " TARGET="_blank"> http://www.wwmodelclub.org/Fall.html

I like the #6 there Al. That's a good one some may not think of.

The rules that Al posted seem to make pretty good sense describing OOB. What I would kind of like seeing is a 3rd category. I'd like to see where a person's creativity are put to the test, not just if they can buy an aftermarket set and use it. For me it should be the following categories.
1. OOB. What it says, nothing that isn't in the box. You can paint and weather anyway you'd like, and stretch sprues for arials would be ok.
2. I'm not sure of the name for this one but it would allow the builder free reign to build anything their skill allows. This means you could make blanket rolls, grab handles, really anything you design and make your self.
3. After Market. This is for any kit that you've added after market items to.

Personally I admire the skill needed to use the tiny aftermarket PE stuff, but I admire even more the creativity needed to make your own stuff. I don't think it's fair to lump those modelers who can kit bash, and creatively make their own stuff, with those who buy a pre made A.M. kit. On the other hand I'm not sure a kit that is bought including P.E., like some of the newer kits are, should be considered OOB. May OOB should just be PLASTIC, and nothing else?

Finally I'm not 100% sure I'd want to mess with the categories we have here now. They seem to be working fine. The suggestions above are just my two cents if anybody DOES want to change them.

There are occasionally classes, not well filled, for Scratchbuilt (Armor/AC/Automotive), but I know you're not talking about that. At least one show had a Major Conversion class that was restricted to non-aftermarket conversions. It might have been the IPMS R1 regional in 2002. I kind of remember discussing that in one of our planning meetings.
It's beenmy experience that most competitive models fall into a group that could be called, "Mostly out of the box with some scratchbuilt details and some aftermarket details."
IMHO, it would get to be too cumbersome on contest day to split the hair between how much scratchbuilt and how much AM detail was added.
This is one of those areas that will continue to evolve. If you've been around long enough, you might remember when an aftermarket conversion meant a sheet of vacu-formed plastic that was more work to get right than an actual scratchbuilt conversion.
Why, when I was a young man, we didn't have any of this resin and PE stuff. You made your own conversion by carving out a cblock of plastic with your bare nails. If you were lucky, maybe you'd have a dull pocket knife to work with. And only the rich kids'd have their daddies drive them to some fancy-schmatzy hobby shop and get a vacuum formed conversion."

We always allowed the modeler to fill sponsons with plastic sheet. I guess that would fall under this rule.

Patrick