Friends--- how about letting us know which battle within the European Theater of Operations is most memorable in your opinion. I want to place parameters on the topic so we remain focused on this area. Although the War starts in 1939, the European Theater of Operations (ETO) is not organized until 1942. This topic should see responses using 1942 as a baseline. It does not include battles on the Eastern Front. We can cover those in subsequent discussions. My entry is the raid on Dieppe. Tragic loss of men and equipment that results in several behavior modifications by the Allies (Mulberry, deception plans, etc.) What are your choices?
thanks
DJ
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Most Memorable ETO Battle
210cav
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Posted: Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 07:12 AM UTC
HastyP
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Posted: Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 08:05 AM UTC
Dieppe is a battle that sticks in my mind as well. The Brits didn't want to commit battleships for support as they were afraid to lose one. All the pre bombing from the air didn't happen and the para drop was aborted. Secrecy was out the window with the raid having been cancelled once, it was the talk of England
HastyP
HastyP
brandydoguk
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Posted: Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 08:26 AM UTC
For this one I would say SS-Hauptsturmführer Micheal Wittman's tiger tank assault on 7th armoured division units near Villers-Bocage on 12th June. Not only did it prove the absolute superiority of German tank design over the British tanks, it forced the entire division onto the defensive when it was vital to allied invasion plans to maintain the offensive.
staff_Jim
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Posted: Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 08:33 AM UTC
Hmm...well I hate to sound generic but would D-day be the most memorable? Or are we classifying that as an "Operation" and not a particular battle?
Second would be the Battle of the Bulge. Bastogne in particular.
Jim
Second would be the Battle of the Bulge. Bastogne in particular.
Jim
Halfyank
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Posted: Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 09:14 AM UTC
First of all I think that 1942, while right when you're speaking of the ETO is too late. I would say the absolute most memorable battle that took place in Europe was the Battle of Brtain. Failing that I think D-Day has to be the most memorable. Dieppe is too much a British Op, Battle of the Bulge too much an American one. It's got to be D-Day due to ALL the major nationalities being involved. That would include the French. Do you think they think of Dieppe, or the Bulge, and often as they do June 6th?
Folgore
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Posted: Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 09:27 AM UTC
I agree. If you're talking about "most memorable" how can it not be D-Day?
Nic
Nic
keenan
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Posted: Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 09:56 AM UTC
Yeah, I have to weigh in with D-Day. I don't know if there is a differance between most written about, most important or most memorable or not but I am in for the D-Day thing. If the topic was "Landing the Allies Learned the Most From" I think Dieppe would come in first. Most memorable, probably not.
Shaun
Shaun
ModlrMike
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Posted: Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 11:06 AM UTC
I have to agree with D-Day. Certainly one shouldn't forget Dieppe, Market-Garden, Battle of the Bulge etc, but D-Day is more universal. Besides having most of the Allied nations participating, and level of security required to pull it off makes it rank as No1 in my mind. 
chip250
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Posted: Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 02:41 PM UTC
What about the Battle of Berlin? With the Ruskys, and the Germans.
Not highly remembered but equally as cool, Battle of the Hurtgen Forest.
~Chip :-)
Not highly remembered but equally as cool, Battle of the Hurtgen Forest.
~Chip :-)
m1garand
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Posted: Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 05:14 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Not highly remembered but equally as cool, Battle of the Hurtgen Forest.
~Chip :-)
That would be my choice.
andy007
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Posted: Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 06:51 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not highly remembered but equally as cool, Battle of the Hurtgen Forest.
~Chip
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That would be my choice
Same here
210cav
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Posted: Friday, September 26, 2003 - 01:19 AM UTC
Some great responses. The hands down winner so far is the D-Day. However, we also covered the Dieppe Raid in '42, Battle of the Hurtgen Forest November of'44 (arguably started earlier),Battle of the Bulge in December of '44, Battle of Berlin in '45. Also weighing in is the 1940 Battle of Britian. Each of these engagements made a unique contribution to victory. I'd also pose that the Normandy breakout in August of 1944 is a classic deserving of study.
DJ
DJ
Folgore
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Posted: Friday, September 26, 2003 - 10:22 AM UTC
Wouldn't the Battle of Hurtgen Forest count as one of the most forgotten battles of World War II? It was overshadowed by the Battle of the Bulge and remained largely unknown until recent movies and books on the subject. Still, this battle would have been most memorable for the men who actually fought in it.
If by "memorable" we speak of the soldiers only, then perhaps Dieppe could take the prize. For most of the Canadians who participated it was their last, and only, battle.
Nic
If by "memorable" we speak of the soldiers only, then perhaps Dieppe could take the prize. For most of the Canadians who participated it was their last, and only, battle.
Nic
210cav
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Posted: Friday, September 26, 2003 - 02:30 PM UTC
Nic--good points. The Battle of the Hurtgen Forest should have resulted in the courts-martial of self high ranking American general officers as an example of dereliction of duty. Criminal waste of men for nothing. Horrible tragedy. Can you enumerate some good books on Dieppe?
thanks
DJ
thanks
DJ
HastyP
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Posted: Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 07:24 AM UTC
210cav
Try Ospreys Dieppe-Prelude to D-Day. I just bought it and it is very well done. Also there is one called Dieppe, Canada's Forgotten Heroes that is very good as well.
Cheers
HastyP
Try Ospreys Dieppe-Prelude to D-Day. I just bought it and it is very well done. Also there is one called Dieppe, Canada's Forgotten Heroes that is very good as well.
Cheers
HastyP
210cav
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Posted: Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 08:40 AM UTC
Quoted Text
210cav
Try Ospreys Dieppe-Prelude to D-Day. I just bought it and it is very well done. Also there is one called Dieppe, Canada's Forgotten Heroes that is very good as well.
Cheers
HastyP
HastyP--- thanks. I certainly will get the books.
DJ
blaster76
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Posted: Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 12:25 PM UTC
Just to be a little different. How about Sicily? It was the first major beach landing under semi-combat conditions. You might also look at Salerno, as we learned what not to do in time for D-day which I consider a major operation
210cav
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Posted: Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 02:18 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Just to be a little different. How about Sicily? It was the first major beach landing under semi-combat conditions. You might also look at Salerno, as we learned what not to do in time for D-day which I consider a major operation
Well, I'l go along with that one. As I recall, it covers a larger landing area than the Normandy invasion and (correct me if I am in error here) but I believe it involves more divisions also. It was almost the death of the airborne concept much as Crete was for the Germans.
DJ
penkala
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Posted: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 07:04 PM UTC
Isn't the whole second world war a battle to keep in mind (and a battle we don't want to fight aigain)?
Eagle
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Posted: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 08:10 PM UTC
Well..... maybe a bit of a predictable answer from me, but I won't keep it away from you.
In my opinion the battle for Arnhem is the most memorable..... just one week of planning ..... fly in 10.000 boys of who only 3.000 would return ..... Lacking communication facilities, wrong interpretation of intelligence reports, political backgrounds involved, a questionable role of a Dutch General/Prince and all of this because of a stubborn attitude of a British General .....
In my opinion the battle for Arnhem is the most memorable..... just one week of planning ..... fly in 10.000 boys of who only 3.000 would return ..... Lacking communication facilities, wrong interpretation of intelligence reports, political backgrounds involved, a questionable role of a Dutch General/Prince and all of this because of a stubborn attitude of a British General .....
Easy_Co
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Posted: Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 07:15 AM UTC
I would nominate the Battle of Britain, what would have happened if britain had fell? Instead hitler had to choose plan B, and looked what happened.For a real punch up though what about Monte Cassino,nearly every allied nation in that little tear up. 
210cav
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Posted: Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 02:25 PM UTC
I had the opportunity to see Monte Cassino about two years ago. It defies imagination in terms of the excellant observation and the awesome distance from the base to the summit. Situated astride the Liri River Valley, the military crest contrasted with the topographical crest provides an obstructed view of the valley for a good twenty plus miles without the aid of optics. The monastery sits flat dab on the topographic crest. Impressive in size, it is small wonder that the Allies falsely believed the Germans were using it as an observation platform. I can not imagine someone attempting to storm it from the valley floor. Provides ample evidence to me that the Italian Campaign was a tragic waste of manpower and resources.
zer0_co0l
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Posted: Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 06:49 PM UTC
Im going with market garden...
and second the battle of norway.
struggling 2 hold on by the british
and getting all jews out of their country.
no other country has done that ever before
so cheers
and second the battle of norway.
struggling 2 hold on by the british
and getting all jews out of their country.
no other country has done that ever before
so cheers
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