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Modeling in General
General discussions about modeling topics.
my predictions of future modelling
Adamskii
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Posted: Sunday, April 10, 2011 - 01:30 AM UTC
Ever wonder where modelling will go in the coming decades?

I doubt little will change except the subject matter. In 5 years when its the 100 year anniversary of WW1 I bet we see an oversupply of WW1 tanks from every supplier, tamiya I hope will drop a MKIV on up for cambrai, and the aftermarket and figure makers will go nuts with decals and acesories - trench dioramas will be flavour of the month.

In 30 years for 100 year anniversay of WW2 it will be same story for all those tanks.

But the thing I wonder about, is will the mediums we use be the same or something really dynamic happen? Look how much the tools and techniques have evolved in the last 30 years.

My prediction is this. For modelling to recruit new generations who have grown up with computers, Ipads, touchscreens, 3D television, XBOX360 etc, and are completely savvy to digital media, who feel at home with technology, modelling will not look like plastic, gluie and paint.

INstead Imagine if Tamiya released a digital model kit ?

You buy the kit online, pay whatever it is priced at, and it downloads to your PC.
Now you open a program that is you use to build your Tank - It could be a rivett perfect version of any tank, and build it much like a lego kit - click the part drag and drop to where it goes. Along the way you would get little digital videos of the parts or the little tank guy saying be sure to orient it this way etc. the kit might be sold as beginner , intermediate or advanced - where advanced is every bolt and you have to torque them up etc or weld etc with the associated tools. a beginner version of the main tank might have sub assemblies already done or a cheat that preassembles it for you.

So then you have this digital version of your tank - now it nees to be painted. Well if you have played the latest video games you would know how photo realistic modern rendering can be. This is the stuff future generations would flock to. You could download or share paint schemes - some aftermarket company might sell pre rendered paint kits - Hey would you buy a MIG T34 render program? Then you could weather your vehicle to whatever you want.

Now you have this awesome 3D model of a tank what do we do with it >? This is the best bit - install or run the terrain program and watch your tank drive over terrain, or take screen shots of it in real photographs. Go to the online Tamiya diorama world and drop you tank into an environment with other tanks. Suddenly your model is a tool, a weapon , and can be played with. Oh and it can always be on your home page as a shelf queen. Collect scalps as your tank kills others and watch the barrel rings grow.

OK so its part game part modelling. But why not ? With CGI movies and 3D technology becomming more accesible, sooner or later someone going to market this kind of idea. To the plastic builder I am sure they would baulk at this and say they like the analogue feel of it and its uniqueness by the need for skill for glue and paint and sanding.. That would still go on, but I believe newer generations will one day see that as too much hard work. Like everything it has to evolve or itwill be lost. How many threads have you seen saying how do we get younger people into the hobby ? Well i say the hobby has to change to meet the needs of younger people.

What are some other pros? well no more kithoarding in the wardrobe. The digital model takes up no room and you can display it anywhere there is a screen (globally), Competitive modelling could be truely global, never have to dust off a kit, aftermarket companies could sell almost anything anyone could imagine - including vdeo programs to run your tank in with the figures actually having movemen or dialogue, maybe make your own mini movies with your models, Make dioramas with other people and share the digital model.

what are some cons? pirating would be an issue. Both stealing of programs or copying of someone else work. Also you dont actually have something built - however the 3D printing in 50 years might make this a reality. There would be a divide between traditional and digital modellers.

Now I am not overly creative and I am sure more intelligent people would make the building of a digital kit more interesting than drag and drop. I am certain it could have so many features that your head would spin.

Who knows where the hobby will end up in 30, 50 or 100 years, but I seriously doubt for it to survive it will look the way it does now. This maybe a provocative dream to some who think it will never catch on - to those I say please share your thoughts and tell me what you do to promote the hobby to young people and make it accesible to them. Tell me why what I suggest cannot work by all means, but think about all the times someone has argued why a new idea cannot work - computers, cars, mobile phones, flight - there are some tired arguements from the critics out there that continually get proven wrong.

One last thing and it probably should be a separate thread, but anyways. Why are some vehicle classed as "modern" when they are post 1945? surely the time has come to accept that there is a generational gap between ww2, cold war and modern vehicles? The generation of vehicles today is so different than that from the 60's and 70's and even the 90's that I am almost astounded that they grouped together. I believe the term modern should be used to describe modern vehicles only - would you call a TV built 10 years ago moderm, or a car built 20 years ago "modern" all the new safety features or envronmental controls, inclusion of computers onboard etc. I believe that only vehicles that are current are called modern. So a challenger 1 would not be modern, an M1 abrams would not be modern. Only the current version in use by the country that designed it could be called modern (so if some country bought 100 m1a1 abrams and didnt update them for 50 years, they would not qualify as modern once the disigning country - America- upgraded to M2A2 etc). The reason I say this is I am sick of seeing the old Italeri "modern accesories sets" that have 20 year old out of date technology - where are the real modern accesories? real modern radio sets, and tools, real modern recovery equipment or ration box's? only the aftermarket resin peoples do this.

ANyways thats my rant. Thaks for reading this far!

Adamskii

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Posted: Sunday, April 10, 2011 - 04:05 AM UTC
That sounds interesting, but I disagree with 'digital media kits'. I believe that models will consist of two types of materials, resin and metal. The cool part would be, that you could use your printer to paint the parts and decals prior to assembly. And this may not be all. It may happen that you can walk in to or correspond with the manufacturer via the internet, and order a model of any military or civilian vehicle you want. You could return approximately a month later and have this item mailed to you or pick up from the retailer.
Sammuel
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Posted: Sunday, April 10, 2011 - 05:06 AM UTC
In my own view, the concept you are both discribing has already begun in a small form with paper / card modeling. I know guys who design the model in 3D and then color and down load to sheets of card stock and then build them. You get the best of both worlds and its cheap. Check out some of the card models on line or at papermodelers.com. The detail on some of the kits is just amazing. I also know that card modeling is very popular in the EU.

Sam
Rouse713
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Posted: Sunday, April 10, 2011 - 01:59 PM UTC
There are people who already model AFV's in CAD software.

IDK, I am 22. That said, I enjoy creating something with my hands. I like having something that doesn't need something else to work (ie computer).

With computers, you can have infinite zoom. With your eye's, you can't, and that is what makes small details great!

I am not saying your idea is dumb and I don't mean to give it a lot of flak.



I feel the hobby is pretty good where it is. I don't mind stashing kits now because the detail is all pretty much there / photo realistic / any smaller and I couldn't work with it. If this was the 70's I would have a different answer.

I think the point of modeling is to build a kit that looks like the real thing. We can do that now (trust me there is enough photoetch out there). I think subjects is going to be the future. They will never model all of the german tanks, trucks, railway guns, variants, etc...
panzerbob01
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Posted: Sunday, April 10, 2011 - 02:34 PM UTC
I suspect, and yes, also HOPE, that actually much of modeling will be more like what we do now than not - the materials, details and available bits and pieces will certes change, but there will still be physical model kits and guys building them.

After all, folks have been building detailed and accurate ship models for hundreds of years - guys today still do much of the same things folks did over a hundred years back- cut wood and metal, create little "glass" windows and mini-ropes, mill out tiny cannon and cut and shape lead foil, etc. Much of this is don in some version by us plastic modelers, too- only sometimes in resin and with styrene sheet and PE instead of real wood, etc.

A virtual model is NOT the same experience as a physical model. Those who like to draw and CAD their tanks are doing so already, and the scenario offered would, I think, appeal strongly to these folks. Those who, like me, want to actually build something with our hands and hold it (and drop it as needed...) will continue to do so.

Now, of course, when oil hits $3-400 per barrel, plastic kits may start going the way of Bronto...!

Cheers!

Bob
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Sunday, April 10, 2011 - 10:01 PM UTC

Quoted Text



A virtual model is NOT the same experience as a physical model. Those who like to draw and CAD their tanks are doing so already, and the scenario offered would, I think, appeal strongly to these folks. Those who, like me, want to actually build something with our hands and hold it (and drop it as needed...) will continue to do so.




I absolutely agrre with this point of view

The trend that you decribed Adam, maybe would be interesting, but , in my opinion, wouldn't be Model hobby any more.
Nowadays a lot of young people do 3d models and stunning renders. They do them with cracked softwares and they share theirs results in internet forums. So I think the scenario that you decribed actually is very near.
But plastic model hobby is more similar to a craft activity than a computer work. If you exclude all the craft skills you'll obtain something else. Maybe interesting, but absolutely different.

I think that computer will strongly change our hobby but in a different way. 3d printing will become less expensive than today so we'll see models and extra parts made in rapid prototyping resin. This will allow an extreme freedom in shape mouldings and an infinitve subject production, because the traditional expensive iron mould will become obsolete. Our kits would be prodeced by compter aided sintering process.
The most advanced scenario which I can immagine about our hobby, is that in future all the modellers will have a cheap 3d printier in their hoses. Model kits and extra sets will buy in internet and will downlod in PCs. The modellers would print theyr kit and parts directly on their workbenches. Furthermore the skillest modeller will be able to design their models with 3d softwares, and the'll be able to make it with the 3d printer.
To preserve the "craft factor" ,mounting and painting process will be more or less the same , but paints, glues, putties and all the tools will become Hi-tech and they will be very different from today

cheers
Rouse713
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Posted: Monday, April 11, 2011 - 03:25 AM UTC
Hey,

Not to nitpick, but model kit molds are most likely going to be made out of aluminum instead of steel...

Problems with 3D printing:
-very porous material
-very brittle
-not fine enough for 1/35 or 1/72 detail
-expensive compared to Injection molding

I have used 3D printers at work. They can do amazing things for visual prototypes and fits, but for the most part, that is all they can do. I just don't think you will ever replace multipart, multimedia kits.

I also don't see many non technical modellers doing this. It isn't the quickest and easiest thing to do CAD without technical drawings of the part and at least formal training on CAD.

I don't think the following would be likely:
1) somebody sees a photo of a variant they want
2) they spend a few hours drafting
3) print all the parts and have the fits be ok

I see this as being more likely
1) see the variant they want
2) spend a few days, if not weeks drafting (esp without formal training)
3) print all the parts only to find they don't fit
4) quit


.........

Of course I am going to defend the way the hobby is now! I love it and I don't want it to change for the worse.

I think the whole computer modelling is similiar to looking at digital photos on a screen vs seeing a real painting. It just isn't the same. I don't oppose 3D printing if it adds value / detail, but I don't see that happening for a long long time. I feel even tamiya kits from the 1970's will still be more detailed than 3D printers from the 2030's.
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Monday, April 11, 2011 - 06:22 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hey,

Not to nitpick, but model kit molds are most likely going to be made out of aluminum instead of steel...

Problems with 3D printing:
-very porous material
-very brittle
-not fine enough for 1/35 or 1/72 detail
-expensive compared to Injection molding

.



Hi Mark

Regarding the materials bad quality look there:

http://www.modelgeek.com//features/1184

there
http://www.finelineprototyping.com/

And mostly THERE

This is a company which NOW produce scale model parts on demand

Porosity depends on the size of sintered powder. A finer grain allows the production of smoother surfaces. That's the reason why this process is used to make 1/1 jewelry prototypes

Regarding the fragility, nowadays exist a lot of new materials concieved for Rapid prototyping, not all of them are rough and very brittle.

http://www.finelineprototyping.com/services/materials.php

Furthermore, also the common resin used in extra sets usually is very brittle and this matter it doesn't seem to be a problem

Regarding the costs, as you know, costs of a new technology depend on his spreading. Nowadays the costs are competitive just if you have to produce a small amounts of items. But this technology has been rising. All the industrial branches nowadays use Rapid prototyping, from the automotive to the furniture production. Most likely in the future it will be a lot less expensive than today. Furthermore Kits produced just "on demand" would mean a huge cutting costs for the companies and lower investments. Companies would be able to use 3d printers and software for a lot of subjects. The costs of production would be just the 3d modellers salary and reference researches, because it wouldn't be necessary produce Iron moulds. Moreover they would produce JUST the kits which they would actually sold.



Quoted Text

I don't think the following would be likely:
1) somebody sees a photo of a variant they want
2) they spend a few hours drafting
3) print all the parts and have the fits be ok

I see this as being more likely
1) see the variant they want
2) spend a few days, if not weeks drafting (esp without formal training)
3) print all the parts only to find they don't fit
4) quit



This could be a good point for you, but what I ask you is How was your first scratch build experiment? Maybe it wasn't enough good and maybe the piece which you made didn't fit well with your kit. If that happened with this new computer process what would be the difference from the past? In my opinion there would be no difference at all. Beginner troubles would be always the same

Anyway what I described was just "the most advanced scenario" which I could immagine. A less advanced idea could be that the skilled modellers will modify theirs Hi-tech kits with traditional techniques


Quoted Text

Of course I am going to defend the way the hobby is now! I love it and I don't want it to change for the worse.



Me too I LOVE this hobby, but i think it's impossible stopping the future trends


Quoted Text

I think the whole computer modelling is similiar to looking at digital photos on a screen vs seeing a real painting. It just isn't the same. I don't oppose 3D printing if it adds value / detail, but I don't see that happening for a long long time. I feel even tamiya kits from the 1970's will still be more detailed than 3D printers from the 2030's.



I don't agree, absolutely
We are affectionate to the oldest kits because they remind us when we was kids who started to do this beautyful hobby. But for exemple if you compare a Tamiya kit from the 1970's with a recent DML, you can easily notice that the second one is immensely better than the first one. Is crisper and it has milions of more details. The pieces fit in a better way and sprues doesn't have sink holes or deformations.
This superiority comes from the fact that The DML kit is designed and produced with computer aids. The japanese one don't

All the best
Rouse713
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Posted: Monday, April 11, 2011 - 06:07 PM UTC
I stand corrected! Thank you for showing me the links.

The Modelgeek page is neat. I didn't know they had them that fine.


One thing I thought of. I know CAD software for companies can be expensive ($1000's). I wonder if there could be one for home / non comercial use that wouldn't cost so much.

I know DML uses CAD to do all their molds (thats all of their images on the back of the box). IDK, I just don't feel right about personally using CAD. I feel I get more enjoyment out of "hands on" scratching over CAD scratching.

I like modelling because it gets me away from computers for a little bit.
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Monday, April 11, 2011 - 07:36 PM UTC

Quoted Text


I like modelling because it gets me away from computers for a little bit.



Well Mark, to be honest...Me too!
I pass the most time of my day drawing with a computer. As you know, that can be stressful and incredible boring!
I went back to modelling also to do something different from that.
Otherwise I've realised that if you need drawings for scratch works, nothing is as fast and precise as the CAD,
So I've tried to use my computer awareness in my hobby.
For exemple I had an old T-55 ESCI in my stash and I wanted to do A czech t55c Favorit, but I noticed that
the lower hull of the model was COMPLETELY WRONG.
I wanted to correct it rebuilding a lower hull in plasticard.If I did hand drawings, it would take me ages to complete them
and the final result wouldn't be precise.For exemple,I knew that drawing by hand I couldn't obtain a right shape
of sloping sides.
So I've decided to drive a 3d model of the hull





It hasn't finished yet, but when it will be completed, It'll be easy for me extracting the cutting jigs.
It'll be enough "explode" the 3D solids.
Furthermore, in my 3d model I've already calculated the plastc card thikness,
so I'm rather sure that my 2d shapes will be extremely precise.

Regarding cad softwares prices, well actually there are a lot of products on sale and not all of them are so expensive.
There are also open source softwares which are very cheap indeed

Thank you.

Regards
Rouse713
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Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 - 04:04 AM UTC
Neat stuff. If you have a camera, please post pictures when it is completed.
Adamskii
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Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 - 05:23 AM UTC
Hello folks, interesting points of views. Some I expected. Some i didnt think about before.

Just some afterthoughts. Someone commented about how the hobby will stay the same (or they want it to) because thats how it was as they grew up. I wanted to comment on that - the children of today for who growing up with digital media is natural might have the same sentiments in 30 or 40 years - that when they grew up people drew models on computers and they dont want it o change because its how they grew up - not the box of stuff they inherited from grandpa.

Also, Alot of comments on CAD and 3d printing - in 20 or 30 years and I really want forwad thinking of 50 to 100 years, that technology should be as common as mobile phones and as cheap as anything. Besides my pointis this and I think some may of missed it , CAD is a specific software package that while brilliant at what it does, is not accesible to the general person, and requires investment in software purchase, investment in a pc capable of running cad, and probably training by a third person just to use it. My point is what if a model company - say Dragon, developed a model specific software that was reasonably easy to learn via tutorials with a great GUI, that was able to be fully purchased for a few hundred dollars and run on most mid range mid spec pc systems. then itbecomes accesible to everyone, and certainly attractive to younger persons who want to enhance and learn their pc skills (parents might be sold this as a developement skill for future career opportunities) and for whom short attention spans are commonplace. remember the younger generations are sometimes nicknamed the "now or me" generations - where they want instant gratification and results without the hardwork.

Its difficult perhaps to grasp, but i don think you can use the mindset of a midlife adult male today, with the values we grew up with in the techology of the world we grew up with, and expect todays youth to haven the same values. Sure there are always people who will build models the way we do now - but take note the average age of model builders in your local club, where are the hoardes of youths choosing this hobby as a way to pass 3 or 4 hours at the weekend as opposed to sitting on their xbox playing tank games? Our hobby as it is now may suffer from an image crisis where its seen as the domain of older men with a penchant for building models. remember, the rest of the population who is ignorant of what we do has in the most part no respect for the work or dedication that goes into hour hobby - My parents/friends still think of the dioramas as sandpit style toys and would without hesitation simply toss it in the bin during a spring clean given te chance to declutter the house. They never understad the need for a model room or the investment in books and have no words to describe how what i do is to them such a waste of money that could be better spent on other things. This would be true for alot of people who are not privvy to why we do what we do. Because we choose a symbol of schoolboy games as our hobby - the original target audience for models way back in the 50's, we as artists are not taken seriously. And we surely are artists. I am honoured to be in the company of such dedicated to their hobby persons with such self developed skills.

SO I seriously believe that as we move on and the model builders get older the big companies are going to have to find products for the younger generations to compete with digital media. if you cant beat it join it. The theory I propose cantbe tested or valued with todays technology. i doubt it. i have no cystal ball for how fast technology will move but certainly look at how fast its moved in last 10 year. Windows version 3 anyone - pc had 128meg of ram and was considered fast?.... move ten years ahead .. move 50 or 100 years from now - dare I dream about flying cars? lol..

ANother thing that could kickstart interest in the hobby is an event. man walking on the moon was an event - I beleive alot of saturn V model kits were sold by airfix in the 70's. A war produces tanks - but I dont think enough effort goes into promoting modern tanks to modern youth. I dont think a teen will appreciate the value of a tiger tank when they have played a video game where they just drove an Abrams, flew a hind and remotely controlled drones. Warfare from 70 years ago is archaic in nature to todays youth and almost a history lesson - not exciting and cutting edge. I wonder how many dedicated ww2 modellers ever think about that ? So when man walks on Mars in a deacde or two, perhaps a few models of the rocket to get them there will kickstart our hobby. OUr subject matter as armour modellers is what bother me a bit - there are tonnes of kids building those robot models - gundam - and anything sci fi - look at the japanese market. we dont enjoy that popularity with that generation. Unfortunately we are typecast.

I keep talking about todays youth as they are the future of the hobby. most model builders today, serious ones, are guys who built a couple kits as a kid- never had the right tools or paints or skills, but had alot of fun, then left for a while and come back later in life when its time for a quieter hobby. Its no secret that the average age of video gamers in males aged 20 - 30. How many hours are wasted online that could be spent having something to show for it? yet they choose to play? I know from personal experience i am suffering badly from a lack of time to complete a current project before the competitions in 6 weeks. I been working on it for about 18 months. before that i was playing call of duty 4 and 6 on xbox - i clocked up an amazing 700+ hours on COD6 in the previous 12 months - something like 2 hours a day on avarage, every day for a year. Of course I had no project on the goback then , but what wouldnt I give to have some of those hours available now. Something to show for my time than just stats. But there are millions online doing nothing but building hand eye kills. How do we make our hobby sexy enough to attract people to it from these high tech games? There is where I say our future lies. Design a program that uses the media of these kids and see how many pick it up and go on from there - perhaps the scope of my dream is not big enough. Maybe we are too ignorant of where the technology of the world is headed to apreciate it.

And as for not having something to hold - I ask you to remember 3d projection screens are a reality now - the next few years will see them on mobile phones and already on the nintendo 3d game. so your home pc screen in 10 years will be 3d without glasses (porn will be different to I bet lol) so when you build the digital model kit - it will project outof the screen in 3d - so why can't a 3d screen be layed flat on a table and have the digital tank or digital diorama being projected above it like a hologram? and have all the bells and whistles of movement or sound - like the digital picture frames people hang on the walls today? would'nt you like that in your office at work? a 3d digital projection of your model that you built, that is unbreakable and can sit proudly on your desk ? Thats where we need to look forward to technology and not constrain our thinking to the limitations of what we have today.

Adam

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Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 - 10:29 AM UTC
Adam / All:

There are indeed some interesting points emerging in this thread -

Personally, I LOVE technology and have spent much of the last 50 yrs or so wallowing in it. And, to some large extent, Adam is of course right: technology will march right along. Image-based "modeling" is probably coming down the near-future road. New techniques and new materials will displace and supercede the past and the current stuff. Events spur new waves of popular interest. All of these things are, I think, reasonable and true. As indeed the concern for how we graying old model guys will recruit some next-gen modelers.

But somehow there seems some things are missing in our thoughts in this future of modeling subject...

Adam is right to mention that most of the proficient and accomplished "masters"? "good modelers"? "experts"? ARE old - and many of these guys are "re-treads" who did some when but young, dropped out, came back later on (my story, save for the being "expert" part ) and went on to become often times very very good at our hobby and its skills. But wait one....

I think about my microcosmic experience and ask you to maybe look back at yourselves and then look at today's kids... are we old guys actually different?

I was a very very lucky kid indeed - I grew up in a physics lab with an experimentalist dad who just plain totally lived in the changing tech of the times (1950s & 60s & 70s) - space travel was infant, jets not much older, the PC was in the future. Stuff was happening right at home all the time... I grew up playing with instruments and tools, taking stuff apart (and sometimes getting some of it back together). I lived hands-on. I learned drafting, did design and the creative material biz of turning designs into material objects starting when a "tween". And yes, I built some styrene (and balsa) kits, too. I also lit off rockets, burned my fingers, experimented with backyard chemistry, etc. etc.

Point is, I was pretty hands-on. BUT very very few of my pals were anything like me - most of them were NOT so hands-on. I knew lots of "smart" kids - and almost none of them were very interested in making things - certes not in the way I was (and am...). A couple were- and went on to be design engineers (and one a modeler, too).

I would offer that then is like now - actual "hands-on" material tinkerers were and are pretty rare. There were a few "real" "train men" and "ship guys" who were quite like the upper echelons of our hobby today - skilled and involved... and mostly old. Very few kids I knew really wanted to build from scratch their own ship or train or detailed plane or tank model. And very few evidenced any interest in growing up to be a real tinkerer. NOBODY I knew dreamed of being an ace ship-modeler, for instance. Of the many kids I knew, only a couple grew up to be anything like a modeler- not a judgement against them, just an observation that few had the itch nor the expressed talent when young and few came around to it later. Like ourselves (if you, too, are an oldster like me...)

Most folks just are not material fiddlers and builders when young, and most who weren't when young become builders later on. I would guess that very very few old modelers can honestly claim that they were no sort of creative fiddler when young... I liken it to car racing. Most kids sort of flirted with speed and maybe dreamed of it - but only a very very few become accomplished race-drivers.

I have 2 teens today - They offer a micro-slice of the world: one is wholly absorbed by the video game and shows little talent and no interest for actually creating or building any material thing. This is pretty much like an oft-stated stereotype of today's kids. The other WAS buried in video games, but has emerged out of playing games and now increasingly exercises hands-on material creativity - even fiddles with models a little. She is certes the more original and materially-creative of the two. IF I had a crystal ball, I suppose that the gamer one will NEVER become a material modeler, while the other MIGHT. I could even suggest that you either "catch" the "creative disease" early-on, or not ever.

About the subjects... While I do agree - sort of - with Adam on the "event" bit... I would have to say I emphatically do NOT with regards the subject "timelyness and relevance" notion. I'm a WWII German armor fan... but actually wist to have some good styrene kits of Leo. Da Vinci's stuff - maybe a few good Roman-era or middle-ages kits (nah - I don't want no triremes. I want a nice styrene trebuchet with the "hamster wheel"! Maybe one of those rolling assault towers with catapults on top would be cool... ) - certes IF the Dragon made a kit of the Hunley, I would be all over it! And, hey... I'm old, but not THAT old! Personally, I bet old biplanes and WWI and II tanks will remain popular. As are old sailing ships, etc. I simply don't much buy the suggestion that today's MODELERS find modern armor somehow more exciting or interesting, on average than are older marks... but this is, after all, only my OPINION!

I think "real" (involved and deeply interested) modelers, just like other breeds of artists, were always rare. So - maybe we should lean back and recognise that we who do build have always been the few, and that there will be a FEW kids who will follow us into material modeling. Others will indeed go into Adam's virtual modeling world. But I don't think nor fear that that world will displace ours - it's another venue for other folks with other interests and perspectives - not better nor worse than folks who find enjoyment out of doing material things with their hands. And what might this mean for recruiting "kids" into the hobby? Sorry to have to suggest this, but there may well be few who have the early pre-disposition for to get into this kind of thing! Those who are pre-disposed WILL actually gravitate into this - all others will probably continue on their other pathways through life.

Bet THAT will disappoint Dragon, Trumpeter, Tamiya, Bronco, etc.!

My sincere apologies (NOT!) for being so long-winded on this opinionation!

Cheers

Bob
Adamskii
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South Australia, Australia
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Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 - 11:00 AM UTC
Hey bob I'm at work and doing this on an iPhone so be brief.... Awesome reply- a proper argument opinion piece without being nasty or offensive. In fact all the replies here have been mature and it's great to read the opinions. Thanks for the contributions to the thread folks!
Adamski
Rouse713
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Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 - 12:53 PM UTC
Bob,

Very nice comment. I will give a little background on me!

I am 22. For discussion sake, I am a serious modeller. I posted some work a while ago, but I have gotten much better since then. When I get a camera, I will post all my work and I am anxious to get feedback from Armorama! I love seeing other younger people's great work!


To me the awsome part of modelling is holding a box of let's say a tiger. It is just a box, but to think that inside is a model of a tiger. That is the cool part. Its is like saying I am going to convert things inside of a plain, sqaure box into something of innumerable curves and color! (Please don't get into the assembler vs modeler arguement, I just want explore my feelings). Its like when you get those balsa wood planes with a rubber band. Just to think inside an envelope you can have a working plane!

And once its built, its mine (unless its a gift)! I have my own tiger! I don't have to watch Saving Private Ryan or play Call of Duty to experience a tiger. I got my own on my shelf that I built!

My observation with my friends and classmates is a general lack of interest in history. Those who are good at history often don't care about the military aspect. Those who claim to like the military aspect, aren't good historians (or researchers) and only like the "cool" factors:

"Oh, bada** a tiger tank! Germany should have just made all of those!"
"Why are the germans using ak-47's in that movie?"
"Oh yea, the colt 1911. If I was fighting I would have just pulled that bad boy out and dropped my rifle!"

I don't see many young, serious military historians. I think this is critical for not only an interest in the hobby, but a part of a succesful modeler as well.


panzerbob01
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Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 - 03:16 PM UTC
Quote[My observation with my friends and classmates is a general lack of interest in history. Those who are good at history often don't care about the military aspect. Those who claim to like the military aspect, aren't good historians (or researchers) and only like the "cool" factors:]quote

Mark:

Now as then! All that you say could easily describe much of my juvenile experience. I suppose I could say something like "see! just what I thinking!" or some such.

I don't think my pals 40+ years back were actually much different from yours now or in the recent past. That is in fact much my point. Few then were much interested in history, and fewer still in military stuff (think about what we were involved in ca 1968... ), and few were inclined to actually study much (not that all modelers are equally studious or learned). Then and seemingly equally so now.

Bob
dioman13
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Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 - 03:11 AM UTC
Model building= the the procurment of materials to build a representation of an object to the best of your ability for what ever reason. Always has been, always will be. Though within the years that mankind has been doing it, materials, subjects and the way to do it have changed. Bone, wood metal, plastic and resin have altered the materials and the process of building and computers to some degree. But basicly, modeling is the re-creation of something that is, was or could be. After all, kids still finger paint like cave men and artist still do oil paintings along with computer generated art. Modeling is just an art that grows with mans own mental limits.
 _GOTOTOP