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Modeling in General
General discussions about modeling topics.
How many of You Do original research
IanSadler
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Posted: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 06:26 AM UTC
hi all, i was asked the other day about a pst 1/35 kit of the ist ww model t ford , had i built it and what did i think of it. So i started out with the statement , i researched the original before starting on the model . the look in the chaps face , it was a picture . when he thought about my answer and then he came back with - by bother the kit maker does the research before making the master. This then set me thinking just how many of model makers actualy do original research before making the model and what happens to the results afterwards. For me i have a file over an inch thick and it is there for use by any of our club members , should they need it . as to the kit yes it has its faults mainly in the front axle system , but i put that down to limitations on the master making . also the bigest problem is the thickness of the side panels , but that can be ocercome with plastic card.so come on how many hours do you spend on research and not relying on others to do it for you. by the way i have found loads of sites all about the model t ford on the net and they are actual restored vehicles and original workshop drawings to boot . cheers ian
GunTruck
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Posted: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 06:46 AM UTC
I do - that's half of the fun for me. That's also why I don't bother to complain very much about kits (except the gripe about the Jaguar Sheridan because it's fun to moan about it) because I've already decided to "model" it, so some work is already expected on my part.

Gunnie
KiwiDave
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Posted: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 07:39 AM UTC
I do, and as Gunnie says it is half the fun.

Obviously we are in an area of personal preference. There are those who are happy to build oob or who do not know how to do research. If they are happy then that is fine.

I consider my hobby to be scale modelling. That means the model represents something that is/was full size.

Even when modelling subjects I am familiar with I still research - its amazing what you learn about things by digging around with eyes and mind open and brain engaged.

I have an extensive automotive library (I usually build racing cars) and also a lot of WW2/early post war aircraft literature. But I use the public library, free sessions in bookshops (!) and now the Net to find out anything I can about current and future projects.

With no previous armour experience I downloaded over 20Mb of both Centurion and Chieftain pics from the Net prior to building -this has to be the easiest way ever to accumulate large amounts of data. HOWEVER - you must have some basic research skills or no amount of reference material will be any use to you. And you must actually WANT to build an accurate model or the exercise is pointless.

Regards Dave
MadMax
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Posted: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 07:52 AM UTC
me 2, but sometimes i build the models straight of the box
cfbush2000
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Posted: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 07:56 AM UTC
Like Mad Max most of my builds are OOB, but I still enjoy doing some research. I have ammassed a nice library of books over the years and use the internet to the max.
zer0_co0l
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Posted: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 08:13 AM UTC
I like 2 read a lot
and all the concord and ssp books have vewwy pwtty pictures

no for real I love to research a model before building it
all the little things camo paintings n stuff.

its a seperate hobby for me collecting books n pictures.

capnjock
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Posted: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 08:33 AM UTC
If a particular model strikes my fancy(M3 light tank for e.g.), I research it in depth. Usually, I am happy with a liitle conversion or enhancement. Unfortunately, I have way too many models to spend a lot of time and effort on all the ones I would like to. As it is, I will be GREATLY outlasted by my stash. I figure one of every 8 or 10 is a 'special' one.
capnjock
MadMax
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Posted: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 08:51 AM UTC
For the most models i use www.panzerlexikon.de , if i really interest in a model i look in my grandpas old books, ive got even a "tigerfibel", dunno where my grandpa got it from but ii got it
MrRoo
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Posted: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 09:50 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I do, and as Gunnie says it is half the fun.



I have a very extensive libary of pics and other info on the kits I have & would like to build.
shiryon
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Posted: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 10:40 AM UTC
I spend about 1/3 of total time on any model researching it(or its variants). 1/2 the total time goes to building including scratch building. the rest is painting. while I've definitely somtimes spend to much time researching, Ican't see building somthing without at least a few good pics and othe r basic info.while no model can be perfect it should represent the original.

Josh Weingarten Aka shiryon
IDF armour Group janitor
www.homestead.com/shiryon/index.html
screamingeagle
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Posted: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 11:01 AM UTC
ALL THE TIME .................. " nuff said "



- ralph
Plasticbattle
#003
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Posted: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 11:41 AM UTC
Not Much!....... Im mainly an OOB builder. I spend most of my times reading actual modelling reviews and techniques. Whether it be figures, dios or vehicles, even aircraft reviews, as those have the odd good tip?? On the way I pick up little bits of information. When I decide what model Im going to do next .. I usually search around on the net for a few pics, so I can get some reference, but also to see what stowgae, landscape, damage etc. is relevent to that vehicle. I also look at lots of models for inspiration, so I can get a picture in my head of the direction Im going with it. I like to read build up reviews of that particular kit to see if theres anything I could improve on as well.
As far as pure reference goes, i watch lots of shows on discovery like TANKS and battlefield. My library consists of 2 squadron books ... tiger and US self propelled guns, and about 100 assorted modeling magazines.
I believe you have to crawl before you walk. Ive been modelling for a little over 2 years. My priority is to have fun, do it the way I want, and improve my ability and techniques. When/if I feel I want to build the perfect scale model, hopefully i will have the skills to do so!
I do admire you guys who do the research though. Who else would I have to ask, when Im stuck!
Tin_Can
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Posted: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 12:00 PM UTC
I think I have to admit that I'm an OOB builder that is starting to expand in the areas of research. I find myself looking for pictures and reference material on the net with every project now and wanting to make the kit as accurate as I can. Pictures are worth a thousand words but I also like reading about the history of the subject as well as the people who flew them. I need to start a reference library because there are limitations on the info available on the net.
KiwiDave
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Posted: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 02:01 PM UTC
I am going to have a second go at this one 'cos two things have happened since my last post.

I have just come back from the public library, where, apart from getting some free reading matter I did my usual trawl of possible reference material, and from my favourite second hand bookshop where I perused the aircraft titles.

My next project is a Tamiya F3 Meatbox. I want to build this as a 504 Squadron kite 'cos that is the squadron that my father did his gas turbine course with, and then took their Meatboxes to Germany. According to all the reference material I can find this did not happen! (I have even contacted Meteor Flight who suggested that if 504 went to Germany they did so as a non-operational squadron. I find it hard to believe that a nation at war would declare one of its leading fighter squadrons non-operational and send them into occupied territory with the latest weapon of war! )

While in the library I noticed a small soft cover book called 'Tanks and AFV's of WW2'. This is presumably a reference book, yet the pics of each vehicle are predominantly of restored vehicles, or models. With restored vehicles being subject to the whim of their owners, and models being built by comparison to other models we are now entering a dodgy area where historic fact will become so blurred no-one will know what is fact and what is fiction.

Like an acquaintance of mine who entered his 1938 Vauxhall car in a concours only to have it marked down for non-original trim and paint. He was the second owner of the car which had stayed in the same family for sixy years and had never been restored...!

Regards Dave
uscusn
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Posted: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 04:50 PM UTC
Research to me is the backbone of whats sitting on the shelf completed and the stash that is in the closet. I read about the men and their flying machines since I was a lad. I say when I was 4 when I witnessed the XB-70 rollout at North American with my dad I was just dreaming to fly one someday. So I got books, pictures, reference material wrote articles, book reports as I took courses in school all about aviation. So research material that I have accumulated over the years, photography as well when going to airshows from WWII warbirds to modern aviation is part of it as well. Now with technology digital photography and the internet my world and passion for research is now well within reach. There is so much out there is amazing. With now the old Soviet Union (Russia) gone, the new republics making information available. Russian/Soviet Bloc aviation material is more available. Do you remember what we used to paint the cockpit of a Mig-21 in 1980? I believe the info was black, only who knew what color it was. Now we have an idea as that information has recently become available. As well as that information became available, Russian aircraft have become more accurate and more plentiful to build. Asian aircraft as well.
I really don't want to say I'm a collector, one of the 1st books I got in 5th grade was an old Jane's WWII spotters guide of Allied and Axis aircraft. I wanted to build every aircraft that was in that little book. And to say that is possible to build an X-55, or an Me-163 Komet or a rare FW-189 which was very unusual at the time. So as I was saying I'm not a collector with almost 200 kits in the closet I do intend to build them.
Each kit has the decals and research material within the box (if the box is large enough of course). So when it's time to build a project the info for each item is available. Not to say it is definitive but it is a start with the project. Yet I do have the option to change my mind if I want to change what version I intend to build. Not all the builds will be a full AMS job. Only 1 out of 10 builds will be a full blown accurate build, otherwise minor corrections photo etch belts and aftermarket decals is the norm. For instance the AM B-25, will be OOB, I will leave the engine cowlings alone despite the inaccuracy. It looks like a B-25 it is a nice kit and happy the way it will look when completed in it's natural state as AM produced it. Now for an AMS job it would be taking a Monogram A/B-26C Invader and building it as a B-26K Counter-Invader. Which requires surgery,Tip tanks, wheels, decals, antennas, etc to make it correct. Regardless, OOB and AMS I will research the project anyway (as I listen to Shania on TV, she is gorgeous, oops I digress). In a way I love to read about the men who flew these wonderful planes in the conditions they flew them in. Regardles US, British, German, Japanese, Russian, all of them from all nations are all heroes to me in those terrible days. Now we see modern aviation and it makes it more amazing with all glass cockpits where these aircraft stretch human endurance to it's limits. God Bless them all. Bottom line it's for the fun and love of the hobby.

Fly Navy
Chuck
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Posted: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 03:19 AM UTC
If it is something I have ready access to, I will go see for myself or take some shots of the areas I need. I find multiple errors in some of the more well renouned books (in vehicles I am familiar with).
GunTruck
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Posted: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 03:24 AM UTC

Quoted Text

While in the library I noticed a small soft cover book called 'Tanks and AFV's of WW2'. This is presumably a reference book, yet the pics of each vehicle are predominantly of restored vehicles, or models. With restored vehicles being subject to the whim of their owners, and models being built by comparison to other models we are now entering a dodgy area where historic fact will become so blurred no-one will know what is fact and what is fiction.



Nice point to touch upon Dave!

I think a big part of the fun in the research side of the hobby is learning how to separate the wheat from the chaff.

A lot of collectors are just like scale modelers. The depth of their resources (wallets) often dictates what they can do in a restoration effort. Even some with wells full of money in the backyard don't always get the details down correctly, or the paint schemes and markings right. Just like us modelers. You can't always go by the Technical Manual because things change in the field too. Photos often contradict TM illustrations. Then, for me since I like to build unusual or little-covered American AFV's, you have opportunity to speak with reference book authors and even veterans of the ordnance themselves - who always add a new dimension not covered in a book sitting on a shelf.

That is a lot of fun for me - and I admit researching the heck out of a subject because there is so much to discover. Sometimes it's time consuming, but always rewarding in the end. I don't even get hung up on trying to uncover the nth' degree of detail on a subject I want to model - because I know there will always be something new tomorrow to learn about it that I didn't know yesterday when I put paint on plastic.

Other modelers are looking to see what you did with what you had - not so much what you knew. I don't think anyone here can break down a Honest John missile launcher, the LaCrosse guided missile, or the Davy Crockett like I can - but seeing one in model form is more meaningful to everyone.

Gunnie
MadMax
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Posted: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 03:28 AM UTC
i simply havent got the nerves to search 4 every little detail
scoccia
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Posted: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 03:56 AM UTC
I build mainly vehicles in service with the Italian Army. I've still got access to all of the 1:1 models and I've got something like 8000 original pics (interiors and exteriors) of these vehicles so when I need to buld something just dig into my PC looking for the right subject. If I'm not happy with that I just pay a visit to th eplace where the original is...
Ciao
Halfyank
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Posted: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 03:59 AM UTC
I think that for most modelers there is a natural progression in modeling. At first most people are happy to just finish the kit and have it look somewhat like the original. Next might be learning how to paint and weather the item so it looks as real as possible. Finally comes the stage of using after market or kit bashing and scratch building. By the time modelers get to the third stage they are probably allready doing some research. That is about the stage I'm at now. I just recently started picking up Squadron Signal books on US and German Halftracks and US self propelled artillery.

As an aside I started looking for the Hunnicutt book on the Sherman tank. I understand it is the Bible of all serious Sherman freaks. The only place I found it was used for $669! That is more than I paid for my car so I think I'm going to pass on that one for a while.
animal
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Posted: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 07:41 AM UTC
The type of models that I like to build takes research. Most of the trucks are not available in kits so I have to find the info from historical data or my favorite way, by talking to the actural crew members if possible. I have my best luck this way with a lot of the individuals sending photos of the actual trucks. I get extreme satisfation when I get a positive reply from the individual who supplied me the info needed to build that project.
tede911
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Posted: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 07:19 PM UTC
Research is a good part of the fun for me. I love expanding my knowledge of a subject that for one reason or another has caught my eye. Even during the last few years when I went on hiatus from building/buying kits, I kept researching and buying books and magazines that covered subjects I have an interest in. I'm actually planning on getting a bookcase in the next couple of months to organize my books one and for all. Of course I agree with those of you who have found the internet has grown into a great resources for research information!

Halfyank, I sympathize with you regarding the Hunnicutt Sherman book. I remember seeing it brand new on the bookshelf at Excalibur Hobbies in Arlington,MA years ago and back then I thought the asking price of $50 was a fortune!
Jeepney
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Philippines
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Posted: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 07:51 PM UTC
Research makes me better appreciate the subject I am modelling. It goes from being a mere hunk of plastic to something with a personality. I also like learning about the men and their weapons.

The Barbarossa Campaign encouraged me to research because of the restrictions. I focused on the Russian BT and I learned a lot about this fast tank. I especially like the part where the crews narrate how they jumped their BTs across streams to escape. Adam Vukich also helped a lot because of the extensive knowledge that he shared. Because of my research I also became interested in other similar tanks like the Crusader and the BT's badder brother: the T-34.

Research is fun. Just be careful that you don't get too bogged down in the tiniest details.
chip250
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Posted: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 08:03 PM UTC
Research, are you kidding? I usually look on the net, and then quickly glance through my books and look for the particular aircraft. I want to get to building, not looking at information on something I already know about (Somewhat)

~Chip :-)
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