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Modeling in General
General discussions about modeling topics.
Battle Damage
Drone04
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Sofiya, Bulgaria
Member Since: July 03, 2010
entire network: 51 Posts
KitMaker Network: 2 Posts
Posted: Friday, July 09, 2010 - 10:06 PM UTC
Hi everybody,

I am coming forward with another newbie question:

Which is the best technique for making battlefield damage on tank armor in 1/35? I am fully aware of the vast difference between the effects of different types of projectiles, between the different way armor is affected based on the armor thickness/projectile caliber ratio, angle of hit, etc.

I am specifically interested in the methodology of applying the battle damage on a model -- what tools to use on the plastic, are there specific painting approaches, etc.

Thank you very much in advance indeed!
bf443
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Idaho, United States
Member Since: May 16, 2003
entire network: 895 Posts
KitMaker Network: 135 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - 09:04 PM UTC
Greetings Ivan,

I recall from an old diorama book by Shepard Payne the following. Armor plate does not bend, it buckles. One way to replicate this is to scribe the inside on the plastic and then give the model a few good wacks with a hammer.

I've never tried this "Yet"

Brian
Bratushka
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Indiana, United States
Member Since: May 09, 2008
entire network: 1,019 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - 10:13 PM UTC
I use heated pins, nails, dowels, drills, various awls and other pointy things from needles to welding tips for punctures such as from AP rounds, small arms, etc. I heat them and push them through. The trick is to not get them too hot so a lip of molten plastic doesn't form around the hole. The trick is to get an idea of the diameter of the actual round that struck the vehicle, divide by 35 (for 1/35th), adjust a set of calipers to that measurement and find something that approximates the size of hole you need to make.

I also took several pieces of hard wire slightly thicker than a coat hanger, heated the ends with a propane torch, and then beat the ends flat. I did various things to the ends. A few I filed in V shaped notches with irregular spacing, depth, and angles. Others I mushroomed and mangled. I heat them and by stabbing and scratching the surface I can get a variety of effects both to unpainted and painted surfaces.They can create shell spatter, gouges, surface scratches, and other irregularities. They will work unheated as well.

For crumpled parts I start by sanding the area as thin as I dare, scribing (I like the Mission Models Micro Chisel with the hooked scribe head. If you know what an automotive seal puller tool looks like, the shape is similar but tiny and very sharp). I try to make crumples with a variety of pliers on the thinned plastic. I've seen thick foil and other thin metal used but I've never been able to blend it into the plastic. Some things like tank fenders are easier to do that way and are more forgiving. I have used pieces of metal in different shapes and sizes to create dents in barrels and the small, rounded type dents in fenders. Again, sand and heat the tool but not too hot.

If I want something to look like it has been cut off with a torch, like a tank fender I will glue a piece of stretched sprue along the edge. I'll let it dry and sand it close to flat. I then lay a bead of model glue along it and let it set for a bit. I'll take an X-acto knife fitted with one of those fine toothed saw blades that look like a regular cutting blade, tap and drag the teeth letting it "bounce" along the glue softened plastic. It will raise a pretty good looking blobby oxy-acetylene looking cut.

Another purchased tool I use and like is a retractable round wire brush. Micro mark sells them as a tool for making wood grain in plastic and wood. It's listed among the model railroad tools in their catalog and it works well for that. It also works pretty good for lightly scuffing paint or creating harsher wear effects.

Once you get an idea from whipping up a tool or two, no matter how crude, you'll begin to view a lot of items around the house and work areas that can create interesting effects related to damage.

I know you didn't ask for reference material, but the Panzer Wrecks books are loaded with large, good quality pictures of damaged vehicles. Some are blown up almost beyond recognition but many more have ammunition related damage. It's amazing how clean the holes left by AP rounds can be. Seeing the degree to which armor buckles, bulges, cracks, and breaks is also very helpful as is seeing how suspension collapses as a result of fire.
Plasticbattle
#003
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Donegal, Ireland
Member Since: May 14, 2002
entire network: 9,763 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - 10:53 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I am specifically interested in the methodology of applying the battle damage on a model


This is a very broad question and to take into account for every scenario and "the vast difference between the effects of different types of projectiles, between the different way armor is affected based on the armor thickness/projectile caliber ratio, angle of hit, etc."
Id suggest starting with reference images. This will more or less determine what is needed and how to go about it. If you find an image of a wreck, show it and get better feedback.
if you havenīt heard of the panzerwrecks line of books, you should check them out. Pure gold in this area.
tatbaqui
Staff MemberNews Writer
ARMORAMA
#040
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Metro Manila, Philippines
Member Since: May 06, 2007
entire network: 2,713 Posts
KitMaker Network: 159 Posts
Posted: Thursday, July 15, 2010 - 03:47 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I use heated pins, nails, dowels, drills, various awls and other pointy things from needles to welding tips for punctures such as from AP rounds, small arms, etc. I heat them and push them through. The trick is to not get them too hot so a lip of molten plastic doesn't form around the hole. The trick is to get an idea of the diameter of the actual round that struck the vehicle, divide by 35 (for 1/35th), adjust a set of calipers to that measurement and find something that approximates the size of hole you need to make.

I also took several pieces of hard wire slightly thicker than a coat hanger, heated the ends with a propane torch, and then beat the ends flat. I did various things to the ends. A few I filed in V shaped notches with irregular spacing, depth, and angles. Others I mushroomed and mangled. I heat them and by stabbing and scratching the surface I can get a variety of effects both to unpainted and painted surfaces.They can create shell spatter, gouges, surface scratches, and other irregularities. They will work unheated as well.

For crumpled parts I start by sanding the area as thin as I dare, scribing (I like the Mission Models Micro Chisel with the hooked scribe head. If you know what an automotive seal puller tool looks like, the shape is similar but tiny and very sharp). I try to make crumples with a variety of pliers on the thinned plastic. I've seen thick foil and other thin metal used but I've never been able to blend it into the plastic. Some things like tank fenders are easier to do that way and are more forgiving. I have used pieces of metal in different shapes and sizes to create dents in barrels and the small, rounded type dents in fenders. Again, sand and heat the tool but not too hot.

If I want something to look like it has been cut off with a torch, like a tank fender I will glue a piece of stretched sprue along the edge. I'll let it dry and sand it close to flat. I then lay a bead of model glue along it and let it set for a bit. I'll take an X-acto knife fitted with one of those fine toothed saw blades that look like a regular cutting blade, tap and drag the teeth letting it "bounce" along the glue softened plastic. It will raise a pretty good looking blobby oxy-acetylene looking cut.

Another purchased tool I use and like is a retractable round wire brush. Micro mark sells them as a tool for making wood grain in plastic and wood. It's listed among the model railroad tools in their catalog and it works well for that. It also works pretty good for lightly scuffing paint or creating harsher wear effects.

Once you get an idea from whipping up a tool or two, no matter how crude, you'll begin to view a lot of items around the house and work areas that can create interesting effects related to damage.

I know you didn't ask for reference material, but the Panzer Wrecks books are loaded with large, good quality pictures of damaged vehicles. Some are blown up almost beyond recognition but many more have ammunition related damage. It's amazing how clean the holes left by AP rounds can be. Seeing the degree to which armor buckles, bulges, cracks, and breaks is also very helpful as is seeing how suspension collapses as a result of fire.



Very timely thread. Thanks for the tips Jim, will have to try the crumpled look on some ongoing builds. Cheers -- Tat
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