Just a quick one as a warning to all...

I just went to LuckyModel to pay for my 1/32 Typhoon (a bargain at $36.99) and when I went to pay with Paypal I noticed they were adding $3 on top of the price quoted from LuckyModel! What the heck!?!? Needless to say I dumped them and used the direct Credit Card payment option.

PayPal's user agree states:

"4.5 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions."

If LM is doing that, that is a direct violation of the PayPal user agreement and they are risking their Paypal account being pulled.

It is not LM. It is Paypal....

Watch your credit card statement---- I get hit with an "INTL SERVICE FEE" for every overseas transaction.

Warren,

Were you paying an invoice from LM? If instead you just made a payment (as if to a friend), and it was classed as "money owed" (you can pick options with payments) then YOU get the service charge rather than the vendor. I haven't bought from LM, so I don't know their set-up.

Paypal has lots of options that you don't normally see because the vendor's website makes all the choices for you, but as a money-moving service eventually somebody has to pay the service charge! Normally it is the vendor that pays the charge. Your credit card will also scoop a charge, but again most likely it's the vendor paying it as a fee for accepting that brand of card.

Hope this helps you sort out the mystery,

Tom

Luckily for me my card has no conversion charges etc.

As a vendor myself, no matter if you are paying via Paypal, or with a credit card directly, there are still fees involved.

Depending on the Credit Card Merchant plan the vendor has, the fees can be more or less the fees paid by the vendor through Paypal, my merchant fees are less by about 1%, so it actually costs me less when a customer uses his credit card, vs Paypal.....however having said that, I personally don't care which method of payment the customer chooses, as it is my feeling that it is the cost of doing business, and all of those fees can be chalked up to business expenses when it comes time to do your taxes anyway, so in reality, the vendor isn't loosing anything, as we get most of it back in the end game through taxes.

Personally if I buy from some place, and the they want extra for Paypal fees, then I go somewhere else, or choose another form of payment. Problem arises with some of my suppliers that they will either take Paypal, or a bank transfer, which can be a PITA to do at a bank as you need an appointment, and when your shop is open pretty much the same hours as the bank is....hard to get to the bank to make the transfer, so sometimes Paypal is the only option.

Anyway, long story short, Paypal and Credit Card Merchant fees, to me at least, is just the cost of doing business as a vendor, and should not have anything to do with the customer. I don't recall any transaction I have done with Paypal where the customer has been made to pay an extra fee for using it as payment, it should all be on the vendor. The one exception is if you are sending money "personally" then you have the choice to pay the fee, or pass it on to the person received the money, but for retail purchases, the vendor gets the fee.

Dear Warren Inman,

Yes, we need an extra 4% charges base on the total amount when you pay via PayPal (but you don't need when you pay via VISA credit card).

The main reason for adding up 4% is not the "surcharges", no matter you are using VISA/PayPal, we need to pay the transaction fees to our payment services provider (either VISA/PayPal). The main reason is the exchange rate that PayPal use for USD conversion.

If you use VISA payment services, our banker will use 1 USD = 7.8 HKD direct conversion (USD is packed with HKD). Thus all our pricing will depends on this conversion factor. However, PayPal's exchange rate fee will be 1 USD = 7.58 USD. Also, for merchant ourside U.S., their commission rate is higher than local US. Thus, in order to provide best price, we will stick with the VISA payment's exchange rate. And optionally, if someone what to pay via PayPal, we still offer the services.

Thus, the additional fees is not for the "surcharge" for the PayPal method, instead, it is an exchange rate policy and we let the customer to select. This idea apply to same item with 2 difference currency pricing.

Regards
Raymond

All I know is that I saved #3 by paying with my credit card rather than Paypal for exactly the same item etc. Why would I use Paypal? In Australia Paypal stipulate that you must allow Paypal as a method of payment. I don't think that is at all legal and I only accept Paypal from overseas buyers. Paypal is basically a huge ripoff in my opinion. As a seller I have already lost money to them when a buyer in the USA stipulates surface mail, which you get no tracking number for, then complains the package has not arrived and Paypal take money out of your account to give back to the person. It can take months for surface mail items to get to buyers but Paypal is TOO STUPID to realise this.

[quote]Thus, the additional fees is not for the "surcharge" for the PayPal method, instead, it is an exchange rate policy and we let the customer to select. This idea apply to same item with 2 difference currency pricing.[quote]

What? I think if someone used your own statement and challenged this with PayPal, your case wouldn't hold goats milk.

Excuse me... This was not supposed to turn into a bashing thread. I was meerly pointing out the fact that it cost more to pay with Paypal than direct with MY credit card.

I have never had anything but good dealings with LuckyModel and would recommend them to anyone.

On your end of the transaction it should have been the same. Why the two are different is the question we are asking. PayPal is both a transaction facilitator and credit card processor. If you were charged an additional fee (Raymond explained his reason why it was) for currency selection/exchange, for others it is a rare thing. My customers across the pond aren't paying such fees through PayPal or direct purchases with their CC...we want to understand why it is you did.

Paypal use a fictitious exchange rate that is never as good as you get through credit card providors, or so it appears to me and I use Paypal a lot, except when they are trying to charge me more than the competition.

And I don't like being told I HAVE to offer Paypal when I sell things on Ebay! Why the hell should I pay for Paypals very flawed buyer protection scheme?

You apparently miss the fact that PayPal=eBay and vice versa...PP was created by the founders of eBay to facilitate the transactions.

There are other options, few and not as successful as original.

If it was such a bad deal, it wouldn't have grown and become the standard of the industry.

One can't be all things to all people.

As Dave mentioned above, the last 2 times I paid LuckyModel with my Visa, I got hit with a $3.50ish charge on my statement for "currency Conversion". The last time I ordered, keeping that Visa cost in mind, it was actually cheaper to go the PayPal route. If your credit card company is not charging you for International purchases, it makes sense to use it, but - if your going to get hit with a $3-$4 charge either way, it makes sense to go with the lesser of the two.

Cheers,
Mike

It is LM. PayPal does NOT charge the sender of money. PayPal only charges the receiver of the money for any fees associated with the PayPal service.