_GOTOBOTTOM
Modeling in General
General discussions about modeling topics.
Would 1/35th scale aircraft interest you?
Bratushka
Visit this Community
Indiana, United States
Member Since: May 09, 2008
entire network: 1,019 Posts
KitMaker Network: 332 Posts
Posted: Monday, June 14, 2010 - 11:41 PM UTC
A year or so ago I bought Tristar's 1/35th scale Storch kit. I already had it in 1/32 and 1/48 but the idea of the Storch in the same scale as the military vehicles I build brought to mind a DAK based theme since I already had good reference to Rommel's Storch's paint. But, the Storch was used all over the place so many other ideas came to mind. As far as I know, this is the only 1/35th scale WWII military aircraft I am aware of. Of course, one idea leads to another and thoughts of the Kettenkrad, the Luftwaffe themed Sd Kfz 251s on the market, all the AA guns, both fixed and mobile, the trickling in of various support, ambulance, transport, fuel, and workshop vehicles seem to offer plenty of ideas and materials for airfield based vignettes and dioramas. Even the appearance of staff cars and other smaller soft skins seem they'd add a lot. The one problem is that so many airplanes are in either 1/48 or 1/32 scale. And a few odd sizes, but most of these seem to be things like the Wright Flyer, some WWI craft, and later flying machines.

So, fellow modelers, I'm curious to know if a few more 1/35th scale WWII era aircraft were on the market, would you buy them and expand your subject range? For those who enjoy dioramas, would the ability to make air field scenes from bases complete with hangars and barracks to dirt runways lined with Quonset huts and tents be something you'd consider?

I'm not talking about releasing every WWII plane in that scale, but the big players, common main stream fighters like the FW-190s, the Me and Bf 109s for the Germans, Spitfires, Hurricanes, and Typhoons for the British, Corsairs, P51s and P47s for the Americans, The Yaks and Airacobras for the Russians, Zeroes and Vals for the Japanese, Italian Fiat G50 and MC295, etc. Even a single release from each Axis and Allied participant to start with would be more than what we have now.

Thoughts?
GALILEO1
Visit this Community
Maryland, United States
Member Since: April 18, 2006
entire network: 1,794 Posts
KitMaker Network: 304 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 01:27 AM UTC
Great thread, Jim. I would definitely be more than interested in 1/35 aircraft kits. Besides my passion for WWII German artillery and a few tanks and softskin vehicles, I'm also heavily into 1/32 scale modern and WWII a/c. For me, having these in 1/35 would be wonderful not only because of the many diorama possibilities but because I would view 1/35 a/c as the perfect balance between 1/48 (which I think is a bit small for my taste) and 1/32 (which is great but requires that one have plenty of room for display if more than 1 or 2 models are desired). Aircraft in 1/35 would not only be big enough to add plenty of detail if desired but would also allow modelers to build more than a just a couple of them...with the actual possibility of building a stash of them . Prices will also be a bit lower for this scale as opposed to 1/32 prices. 1/35 is, for those reasons, Kind of like a 'middle of the road' type scale for me.

Rob
barkingdigger
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
#013
Visit this Community
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Member Since: June 20, 2008
entire network: 3,981 Posts
KitMaker Network: 574 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 01:36 AM UTC
Possibly, but rather than all those glamourous fighters I'd rather see the kinds of transport craft that might interact with the vehicles we all build.

If it hadn't been for Tamiya inventing the scale once they'd measured their Tiger tank we would all be building armour in 1:32 and Monogram might still be a big player in the armour field... Or, we might have defaulted to 1:48 since back when I was a kid that was the dominant scale for fighter planes. Then again, with all the new 1:48 armour we still can!

If we need a wish-list, I'd start with a C-47 and a glider. Post-war choppers would be nice.

Tom
slodder
Visit this Community
North Carolina, United States
Member Since: February 22, 2002
entire network: 11,718 Posts
KitMaker Network: 2,584 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 02:03 AM UTC
From a diorama perspective - yes! It gets a bit frustrating and eliminates a number of subjects when the scales aren't in line.
You do touch on a hurdle - 1/48th scale. It is becoming quite popular and the product lines are growing on the 'ground' side. The AC side is already there and more ground subjects is filling this scale gap a bit from the building side.
I know there is a difference between the scales. I'm just pointing out that from a subject side, I for one, would simply down scale to build the diorama if the subjects are all there in 1/48th.
I do believe there is a niche market and a small run line would fill it for sure.
Bratushka
Visit this Community
Indiana, United States
Member Since: May 09, 2008
entire network: 1,019 Posts
KitMaker Network: 332 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 03:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Possibly, but rather than all those glamourous fighters I'd rather see the kinds of transport craft that might interact with the vehicles we all build.

If it hadn't been for Tamiya inventing the scale once they'd measured their Tiger tank we would all be building armour in 1:32 and Monogram might still be a big player in the armour field... Or, we might have defaulted to 1:48 since back when I was a kid that was the dominant scale for fighter planes. Then again, with all the new 1:48 armour we still can!

If we need a wish-list, I'd start with a C-47 and a glider. Post-war choppers would be nice.

Tom



Hi Tom. I agree on what you said 100%. I just suggested fighters at first because of the small size which as part of a diorama would possibly be more desirable in terms of getting some interest if a model company were to follow up on this. I think the fighters would have a broader appeal at first than would the transports in the same way most modelers would grab a newly released tank over a newly issued deuce and a half. Believe me, I'm on your side and get exactly what you are saying. Following your thoughts, a diorama of the beginnings of D-Day with the gliders and all prepping, equipment loading up, etc. would make some great scenes! The Pacific Theater with it's island airbases could make for some stunning themes! The fleeing of the German Officers at Stalingrad while leaving their men to the brutal elements of the Russian Winter and the fury of the Russian soldiers could make as haunting a scene as any.

And,of course, we can't forget Korea and the MiGs and F-86 Sabres. Even Vietnam with the profusion of helicopters, jets, spotter planes and even the gigantic transports. Oh, it could be something big I think I somebody would get on board!

Before my current bout of AFV modeling I was totally into 1/48 scale WWII aircraft and amassed an enormous collection that quickly outgrew my ability to keep it. My goal was to build one of everything I could find that was used in WWII and I got a good way there including all the US bombers and transports. (BTW: There's an aviation company operating out of our local airport which was a training base during WWII that trained Tuskegee Airmen. It's Columbus Municipal Airport now but was called Bakalar Airfield back then. Freeman Field, south of me in Seymour is also quite an historical airfield. Anyway, the aviation company called Rhodes Aviation had a pair of C-47/DC-3s, one of which is fitted with twin turbo props. You can really hear that guy when he circles overhead! Rhodes also used to have one of the last few flying Constellations in the world. He sold it and the guy who bought it didn't get her up high enough quick enough when he came to take her home. Now, sadly there's one less beautiful old aircraft in the world. That was about 25 years ago or so. After, I heard it rumored it was going to be used to transport certain special cargo from South America to the US. To the north of me is Camp Atterbury which was a base for many decades including one where German POWs were kept. It was used mostly for National Guard training for a number of years but after 9/11 is a full time combat trsining base. Well to the west are a few other locations including a very sinister looking former mental hospital, Muscatatuck State Hospital, that is now a Homeland Security training site. Here, I get woken up by the moan of miniguns at least a couple times a week and the sound of .50 cals punching through the air is as normal as birds singing. There's no telling what may come over my house day or night, often uncomfortably close!

My favorite airplane still to this day is the P-40 Tomahawk with Flying Tiger markings and paint. See, there's another great diorama idea! Chennault's 1st AVG base in all its crudeness and ruggedness!
pigsty
Visit this Community
United Kingdom
Member Since: January 16, 2007
entire network: 1,226 Posts
KitMaker Network: 116 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 04:48 AM UTC
Me: not interested. I believe there's also at least one other liaison aircraft in 1/35 (Bronco's Grasshopper?) and one bonkers company (possibly also Bronco) has trailed a 1/35 C-47, or something. But that's really about as far as armour-scale aircraft can go, I reckon. Interactions between combat aircraft and armour are rare - even more so if you eliminate anti-aircraft vehicles - so the scope for mixing them into diorama settings is more limited than you might at first think. And the problem then is that, apart from spotter planes, the bulk of interaction is with big fat transport aircraft, which are enormous even in 1/48 and would be unmanageable in 1/35. And they'd be ruinously expensive. An armour-scale C-46 would be impressive but where would you put it, and how many kidneys can you sell before you run out?

Soft-skins can be depicted with aircraft much more, of course, and a Jeep or a 2½ tonner can be parked alongside just about anything. But I don't think it's realistic to ask for the current range of aircraft to be re-sized for this purpose. There's much more future in new vehicle kits being developed to match existing aircraft scales, as is of course happening.

The main reason it works that way round is the relative size of the things. A thirty-ton tank from WWII is only about twenty feet long; an aircraft of the same weight would be about the size of a B-17. Armour is just naturally dense, and soft-skins rarely very large. We have to start from where we are, and that's a market with lots of 1/48 or 1/72 planes and 1/35 vehicles. Developing aircraft to go with existing vehicles means climbing a long way up the scale ladder; doing it the other way round is much easier, even if it does mean some slightly coarse detail at times.

And, speaking personally, the size difference is the main reason I wouldn't go for 1/35 aircraft, even if I could afford it. It may be because I'm used to it but I find 1/35 ideal for armour and 1/48 for most aircraft, because both are at the point where size and detail levels interact best. I model subjects rather than events so I've no urge to mix them, and I'm happy to accept the differences and the fact that it's tricky to compare a 1/48 plane directly with a 1/35 tank. Mainly because, who would really want to?

Your mileage may, of course, differ.
Bratushka
Visit this Community
Indiana, United States
Member Since: May 09, 2008
entire network: 1,019 Posts
KitMaker Network: 332 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 08:12 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Me: not interested. I believe there's also at least one other liaison aircraft in 1/35 (Bronco's Grasshopper?) and one bonkers company (possibly also Bronco) has trailed a 1/35 C-47, or something. But that's really about as far as armour-scale aircraft can go, I reckon. Interactions between combat aircraft and armour are rare - even more so if you eliminate anti-aircraft vehicles - so the scope for mixing them into diorama settings is more limited than you might at first think. And the problem then is that, apart from spotter planes, the bulk of interaction is with big fat transport aircraft, which are enormous even in 1/48 and would be unmanageable in 1/35. And they'd be ruinously expensive. An armour-scale C-46 would be impressive but where would you put it, and how many kidneys can you sell before you run out?

Soft-skins can be depicted with aircraft much more, of course, and a Jeep or a 2½ tonner can be parked alongside just about anything. But I don't think it's realistic to ask for the current range of aircraft to be re-sized for this purpose. There's much more future in new vehicle kits being developed to match existing aircraft scales, as is of course happening.

The main reason it works that way round is the relative size of the things. A thirty-ton tank from WWII is only about twenty feet long; an aircraft of the same weight would be about the size of a B-17. Armour is just naturally dense, and soft-skins rarely very large. We have to start from where we are, and that's a market with lots of 1/48 or 1/72 planes and 1/35 vehicles. Developing aircraft to go with existing vehicles means climbing a long way up the scale ladder; doing it the other way round is much easier, even if it does mean some slightly coarse detail at times.

And, speaking personally, the size difference is the main reason I wouldn't go for 1/35 aircraft, even if I could afford it. It may be because I'm used to it but I find 1/35 ideal for armour and 1/48 for most aircraft, because both are at the point where size and detail levels interact best. I model subjects rather than events so I've no urge to mix them, and I'm happy to accept the differences and the fact that it's tricky to compare a 1/48 plane directly with a 1/35 tank. Mainly because, who would really want to?

Your mileage may, of course, differ.



You make some points, but I tried 1/72nd scale planes and have no desire to go there again. They are just too small and I don't see the detail the larger scales have. I did have a 1/48th scale B-29 and it was pretty huge! Even the B-17 was pretty big!

I ventured into 1/48th scale armor accidentally buying a mislabeled set of kits from eBay. They were supposed to be 1/35th. While detail was better than the 1/72 - 1/76 stuff is still smaller than I like. At best, with the braille scales, it seems the most outstanding thing that can be done with them is super paint and great weathering. I know some modelers can create magic with them. I can't. I built 2 of the 4 1/48 kits. I gave one away and the last one is still sitting unfinished in its box where it will likely still be when the person in charge of my estate cleans out all my junk.

I wasn't necessarily referring to tanks and aircraft together other than in events where they were there in each other's company. Rommel's Storch in Africa was indeed close to the lines as was the Luftwaffe's presence in Stalingrad during the failed attempts of resupplying the 6th Army. Airbases were protected but AA guns and other guns, etc. Field guns, Jeeps, and other stuff were there on D-Day getting loaded. It's all in what gets built in terms of a diorama.

I don't know how crazy costs would be. Many aircraft models i built were very sparse on anything beyond the cockpit or engines if they were radials and visible. Most at best had exhaust manifolds to glue on. I think they can contain far fewer parts than most AFVS with no loss of effect. They sell AFV models with and without interiors with different prices. What would be any different with a deluxe version of an aircraft with detailed engine and removable covers to enhance a diorama? They are already that way in the non 1/35th scales. I have the Trumpeter 1/32 visible ME-262 which is physically pretty big. It wasn't any more expensive than some of the new AFV kits, and cheaper than some of trumpeter's E series paper Panzers. Tristar's Storch was like $35. I have a few Trumpeter tanks and SPGs that exceeded $125.00. What was Dragon's Dora? Between $500 and $600? And Tamiya's FAMO with trailer and the M26 with trailer? Both were well over $100. I have two of each (not the Dora!!). Obviously somebody is buying them besides me.

But I approached the question like this: Look at what a "serious" armor modeler pays for a typical 1/35th scale release. Then add the cost of all the AM goodies, paints and materials to that. Now if this modeler also builds dioramas he's typically followed a similar basic scene based on what's available to him. Here again, studying dioramas, I look at the quantity of streets, buildings, lamps, fences, walls vegetation, debris, and all the other stuff that's out there that obviously enough people buy that there are multiple sellers of those items. Then let's look at the modelers who turn it up a notch and build their own structures and scenery's from scratch. Again, much is central to the main subjects of the diorama and everything is a supporting cast to tell their story. Now I ask what's the predominant scale in that kind of diorama stuff? What has been the predominate scale for the vehicles that are often the main actors in the play and what has been the predominate scale for them? What's the predominant scale for the doors and windows and individual parts the scratch builders might use?

I haven't actually done a statistical analysis, but i would say 1/35thy is the big boy on the block for military ground vehicles. So, there's a pie out there quite obviously and I want a piece of it.

I have a company or a division that makes scale model aircraft already. I have plans, details, all the data on the aircraft themselves. I also have sales data on which models are the best sellers and the most popular across a given time and which would have the greatest measure of success if released. (Look at how many versions of the Sherman and all the various Panzer I, II, III, and IVs have been issued and reissued time and again and they always sell!).

My costs are I need invest in a few re-sized molds (I have experience in injection molding plastic so I have some idea of the mechanics and costs). I have packaging, much which can likely be reprinted on existing cartons and advertising and distribution. I put a few items out there aimed at this specific group of modelers. If it works, then another one gets released. It's no different than any other re-release. The AM is not going to ignore that in either detail accessories or in diorama structures.

As to the scale thing, I know when I was modeling cars 1/24 and 1/25 were the scales of choice. I would never buy or build a 1/32nd scale model. Almost every car modeler I ever knew as a kid was the same way. The rich kids did get the Big T model. When I built aircraft it was 1/48 almost exclusively. As I said 1/72nd was too small and to me were too toy like. A very few planes like the P-40 Tomahawk and some 1/28th scale WWI planes I bought in the larger scale for special display or those were the only ones available. Some of these were a long time ago and pre internet so I had to buy what was in the stores I shopped. My point is nothing would make me switch to 1/48th from 1/35th. I think there are more 1/35th scale modelers who would take notice of scaled aircraft than 1/35th scale vehicle modelers who would downscale to take advantage of the huge number of 1/48th scale aircraft out there.

I don't know, This could be a miss so bad it could be said I couldn't hit a cow ion the butt with a shovel! Or I may have a not too bad idea here. Please don't take my responses as bull headed arguing. They aren't. It's just my thought process. I enjoy the exchange because it makes me think and many of you bring stuff up I haven't considered or flat out didn't know. I appreciate all of it!

If there are never any more 1/35th planes made, it isn't like I'd buy 1/48th scale military vehicles to include them in a diorama with like scaled planes. If model companies would make more 1/35th stuff, I'd buy them. If they won't I obviously can't but I won't change one scale I work in for the sake of the other.

I wonder if other modelers feel that way as well about the scales they build in within the same subjects. Obviously a 1/35th scale battleship would take up a bit more room than many have available! I know when I shop for models, I don't even give non 1/35th scales a second look other than maybe a sigh if it's something I'd like to have in 1/35th but isn't available. As we've discussed, aircraft are mostly 1/72, 1/32, and 1/48 with a few odd ones. I wish there were more 1/35th ones.
barkingdigger
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
#013
Visit this Community
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Member Since: June 20, 2008
entire network: 3,981 Posts
KitMaker Network: 574 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 09:15 AM UTC
As a potential buyer I have to say I'd approach any 1:35 plane mainly from a diorama perspective. That means loading/unloading of cargo or arming/fueling, and I'd be looking to cut the plane up into diorama-sized sections too. A C-47 split lengthways would make for two potentially very different dios from investment in one kit - good economics. And, that would let me go to town on the interior so there's something different from each side of the scene.

Sure, my tanks wouldn't get a look-in, but my trucks & Jeeps would! And think of all those figure sets that could take on new life...

Problem is it'd cost the earth for a limited run. I don't tend to shop at the top end of the armour scene, and usually look for Dragon & Tasca on sale to make them reasonable. So, a plane costing triple digits would only appear as a special guest in the divorce papers! Can you afford to make them in the under-$75 range?

Remember, the plane collectors will remain in the 1:48 & 1:32 ranges, so these 1:35 kits are only aimed at ground-based modellers who will have very specific tastes.

Tom
Bratushka
Visit this Community
Indiana, United States
Member Since: May 09, 2008
entire network: 1,019 Posts
KitMaker Network: 332 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 10:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text

As a potential buyer I have to say I'd approach any 1:35 plane mainly from a diorama perspective. That means loading/unloading of cargo or arming/fueling, and I'd be looking to cut the plane up into diorama-sized sections too. A C-47 split lengthways would make for two potentially very different dios from investment in one kit - good economics. And, that would let me go to town on the interior so there's something different from each side of the scene.

Sure, my tanks wouldn't get a look-in, but my trucks & Jeeps would! And think of all those figure sets that could take on new life...

Problem is it'd cost the earth for a limited run. I don't tend to shop at the top end of the armour scene, and usually look for Dragon & Tasca on sale to make them reasonable. So, a plane costing triple digits would only appear as a special guest in the divorce papers! Can you afford to make them in the under-$75 range?

Remember, the plane collectors will remain in the 1:48 & 1:32 ranges, so these 1:35 kits are only aimed at ground-based modellers who will have very specific tastes.

Tom



How do you think modelers play our demographically? You know, like what percentage are mainly military vehicle modelers, what percent mainly model aircraft, ships, automotive, figures, etc? That would be interesting to know and then to know scale preferences within each segment. Surely, that info is somewhere...

Great idea on the split model, too! I was at a bar once in Canada that had a split, real 1965 Ford Mustang over the bar on the wall. It was pretty neat looking!
Tarok
Visit this Community
Victoria, Australia
Member Since: July 28, 2004
entire network: 10,889 Posts
KitMaker Network: 2,373 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 11:30 AM UTC
The short answer is 'no'.

I prefer aircraft in 1/48, and if I ever chose to attempt an aviation themed diorama it would be in that scale. The main reason? Space. I have a couple of 1/32 and 1/24 kits from my LHS days in my stash, and what constantly stops me in my tracks from completing them is the space to display them once they're done.
russamotto
Visit this Community
Utah, United States
Member Since: December 14, 2007
entire network: 3,389 Posts
KitMaker Network: 625 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 12:13 PM UTC
Space is an issue. Cost is also. There are 1/32 kits out there I would like to build, but I can't afford them. The Trumpeter kits at the LHS are all over $100 US. I imagine the 1/35 kits would run close to the same price. For that amount I could get two or three armor kits, or three or four 1/48 airplane kits. I would be in big trouble with SWMBO for buying that many kits at one time, but even more so for buying one kit at that price.
Bratushka
Visit this Community
Indiana, United States
Member Since: May 09, 2008
entire network: 1,019 Posts
KitMaker Network: 332 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 12:44 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Space is an issue. Cost is also. There are 1/32 kits out there I would like to build, but I can't afford them. The Trumpeter kits at the LHS are all over $100 US. I imagine the 1/35 kits would run close to the same price. For that amount I could get two or three armor kits, or three or four 1/48 airplane kits. I would be in big trouble with SWMBO for buying that many kits at one time, but even more so for buying one kit at that price.



I think you may be overstating the price. As I said earlier I got the 1/32nd scale Trumpeter ME 262 with the clear fuselage and motor casings for like about $60 - 65 from an on-line hobby shop. The 1/35 Tristar Storch was $35 from Squadron. I know the prices depend a lot on brands as well as the size of the aircraft the model is of as evidenced by the huge number of 1/48 scale WWI Blue Max I sold off. I recently got a new Squadron catalog and will take a peek at 1/32nd scale aircraft prices. I just can't believe that a 1/35th scale ME 109, Spitfire, or P-51 is going to sell for over $100.00 when 1/35th is smaller than 1/32nd. As I also said earlier I once had several hundred 1/48 WWII aircraft kits and they were hanging from every ceiling in my big country farm house and occupying every shelf, level surface, etc. I have 2 Morser Karls and 2 Morser Lokis with the ammo carriers to go with them that will get built and crated and stowed away. I mentioned the pair of FAMOS and M-26s I have as well as a Faun and a MAZ also with trailers. Eventually i will own a Dora. My current unbuilt stash is up to 335 tanks, SPGs, artillery pieces, and softskins. I still have over 100 aircraft, most ebay bound eventually and still about 50 cars left from the hundred plus I sold and no room for any of them right now. Anyway, thank you sharing your concerns and saying why you wouldn't buy them. It means I have more homework to do.
hellbent11
Visit this Community
Kansas, United States
Member Since: August 17, 2005
entire network: 725 Posts
KitMaker Network: 320 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 02:29 PM UTC
In a heartbeat! I would like to see some of the more obscure stuff that would relate to troops but yeah it would be great!

Hellbent
neoendofday
Visit this Community
Indonesia
Member Since: June 16, 2010
entire network: 2 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 04:43 PM UTC
Actually, I quiet confuse. Why everyone made tank, figure in 1/35 but none make 1/35 for aircraft? I'm waiting that to make a big scale of diorama.
Plasticbattle
#003
Visit this Community
Donegal, Ireland
Member Since: May 14, 2002
entire network: 9,763 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,351 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 07:33 PM UTC
As well as the cost, most 1/35 aircraft would have very large wing spans, meaning very big dios. Over the years, many "aircraft" have featured in dios in a damaged capacity ... where modellers have used the wing or parts of 1/32 aircraft quite effectively. The small scale difference can be disguised quite well. This is probably the route Id take as well.
For those who want full aircraft, 1/48 must be seen as the way to go. The aircraft already exist, and the quantity of armor and figure models is increasing all the time. Rather than wish for a whole new scale, it might be better to wish for more items in 1/48 to add to whats available???
barkingdigger
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
#013
Visit this Community
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Member Since: June 20, 2008
entire network: 3,981 Posts
KitMaker Network: 574 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 - 01:15 AM UTC
Frank,

you're right about the size issue. That's why my only interest would be if I could treat them like buildings in a diorama - chopping off anything that extended past the edge of the scenic base. For displays of whole intact aircraft I'd opt for a smaller scale, but then I wouldn't be adding vehicles. Of course, if I ever got the chance to design a huge diorama for a museum display then a whole 1:35 plane would be interesting, but at typical museum viewing distances the difference with 1:32 wouldn't be noticible enough to warrant developing a 1:35 model.

Jim, the slightly smaller size of 1:35 won't affect the price compared to 1:32, as it doesn't save enough plastic or warehouse space. The true cost is the research and mould-making, which will be big if you do anything with a detailed interior. That C-47 that I'd section on my diorama would need to be as detailed on the inside as it is on the outside before I'd even consider buying it. And bear in mind that you only drive down the tooling costs by spreading them over a large production run, so you need to sell lots of the kit. (One of the reasons why new kits from Tasca, DML etc are so expensive is the run volumes being so low compared to the "good old days".)

All in all it's a pretty big gamble, but I'd certainly give it a look if it hit the shelves.

Tom
Bratushka
Visit this Community
Indiana, United States
Member Since: May 09, 2008
entire network: 1,019 Posts
KitMaker Network: 332 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 - 05:11 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Actually, I quiet confuse. Why everyone made tank, figure in 1/35 but none make 1/35 for aircraft? I'm waiting that to make a big scale of diorama.



I'm not a modeling historian, but thinking back to when I was first interested in models it was around 1963- 1964. I remember seeing lots of car models and airplane models. There were ship models and some years later monster models like Frankenstein, Wolfman, a Spaceman with a raygun, etc. I really don't remember seeing anything military other than the ships and planes. Car models were either 1/25th or 1/24th and the cheap ones, meaning the ones with the fewest parts and the easiest to put together was 1/32nd. I remember when Monogram (I think it was) came out with the Big T which was a model T street rod which was huge! It was about a foot and a half long, had plastic tubing for spark plug wires, etc. I am pretty sure the aircraft were 1/72 or 1/76 for the small ones. I recall a few larger ones but I'm not sure if they were 1/48th , 1/32 or something else. I have a few old Smer aircraft kits that are 1/50th scale, a few Revell Fokkers that are 1/28th scale, a Wright Flier that is 1/39th scale. I have a few kits that are from the late 1960s of WWI planes that are either 1/26th or 1/28th. I have a moon shot landing kit with the LEM and I have no idea what scale it is. I never did build a ship so I have no idea of the scales that are used in them.

The first time I recall seeing military kits with tanks was in the late 1970s. They were Tamiya and I bought a Panzer IV, a Panther, a King Tiger and a BMW and Zundapp motorcycle set. I don't know when Tamiya started as a company or why they chose 1/35th. I wonder if they started with military models first? I wonder if 1/35 was just a metric size that turned into 1/35th when it was converted to US measurements? I have some Tamiya sports cars and they are 1/12 and a few other scales, but not 1/35th.

If anybody knows, please share!
Plasticbattle
#003
Visit this Community
Donegal, Ireland
Member Since: May 14, 2002
entire network: 9,763 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,351 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 - 06:01 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I wonder if 1/35 was just a metric size that turned into 1/35th when it was converted to US measurements? I have some Tamiya sports cars and they are 1/12 and a few other scales, but not 1/35th.If anybody knows, please share!


Not that "I know", but IIRC it was the box size that originally determined the scale. The bigger the model ... the bigger the scaled effect. Tamiya´s first models scaled out to 1/35 and as it became popular, they stuck to that scale.
barkingdigger
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
#013
Visit this Community
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Member Since: June 20, 2008
entire network: 3,981 Posts
KitMaker Network: 574 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 - 06:30 AM UTC
This is a truly murky topic! In the early days scale wasn't really a factor, and I recall plenty of kits from the 1960s that didn't bother to say what they were. Armour came in a wide mix of scales including 1:40 etc and I think they were "sculpt first, measure after" in approach. The first standardisation I am aware of for a whole product line was Monogram's use of 1:32 for armour.

The even numbered scales are easy divisions of feet & inches (1:6, 1:12, 1:24, 1:32, 1:48, 1:72, 1:144). Other "obvious" scales were 1:25 (a quarter), 1:50 (an eighth), and 1:100. The origins of 1:35 are as wacky as can be - Tamiya designed a very detailed (for the time) Tiger I kit to fit around a gearbox and four batteries, and then somebody measured it to calculate its true scale! However, the early motorised Tamiya offerings were only loosely 1:35 in details, since the hull dimensions were stretched as necessary to fit the motors etc. If only they'd "upscaled" to 1:32 in the first place...

(1:35 isn't a practical division in Metric any more than it is in Imperial...)

Hope my fading memory is right!

Tom
Bratushka
Visit this Community
Indiana, United States
Member Since: May 09, 2008
entire network: 1,019 Posts
KitMaker Network: 332 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 - 08:28 AM UTC
That's interesting Tom, on the tamiya and the battery motor thing. Those first Tamiya tanks I bought didn't have them but some kits I later bought from ebay did. I know the Stuart kit I ladyed about here because it wouldn't fit together right had the motor and battery mounts. I think I was told those were circa 1975 - 76. I also read that there were very big scale accuracy problems with that tank and found an entire small book exclusively about how to correct it. It was quite a lot of work so I decided to wait for a different kit to come out. I heard AFV Club made a good one but then other folks said it was just as wrong as the Tamiya kit.

So, were armor kits essentially always available as standard fare? My dad was a traveling TV/radio repairman as well as running an appliance and repair shop and i went with him whenever i could. He covered a great number of towns all up and down Long Island and it was always mandatory to stop at any Five and Dime, Variety Store, Department Store, or Toy Store so I could go through the model department. I remember some really wild stuff including a Bonneville Jet car that was powered by a CO2 cartridge you stuck in the back. It had this little gizmo that fit over the end of the cartridge and you pulled it back and let it go. It would puncture the cylinder and off the thing would go and leave you with ice on your fingers. It had a couple loops on the body and ran down a piece of string that you tied off between 2 stakes driven in the ground. It was so fast the wheels didn't even need to turn! They just slid along the ground. Of course, the string was way too short and it was still going pretty fast when it hit the stake and that was the end of that! Then there was the guillotine model... But I swear I don't ever recall seeing any type of military model like a tank. I know if I would have seen a Rat Patrol kit I would have been all over it! Maybe it was such a specialized type of model only the really big or specialty hobby stores carried them.

Can anybody date when they first saw tanks and such?

And speaking of weird scales and electric motors, I just remembered Otaki! I have a Jagdpanzer of some sort from them and a Chaparral race car that they couldn't have made more mistakes on if they'd have had a drunken wino describe it to them and built it to that description!
barkingdigger
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
#013
Visit this Community
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Member Since: June 20, 2008
entire network: 3,981 Posts
KitMaker Network: 574 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 - 09:50 AM UTC
Jim,

Long Island, New York? I grew up there! We were lucky enough to have a model shop in Sayville called Dick's Hobbyland that sold all manner of models. (I started going there around 1971 if memory serves...) Tanks were a big thing and Tamiya was just starting to dominate the scene, but Monogram was fighting a spirited retreat! Of course the aircraft & car sections were much bigger.

Tamiya augmented its motorised line with the "Military Miniatures" series that were true-scale 1:35 non-motored subjects like schwimmwagens and figure sets, but they still sell their old off-scale kits just without the motor gear.

My older brother had a collection that included some real "dinosaur" tanks like the Revell Sherman (sorta 1:40th scale) that I think was released way back in the late 50s, but most of the tank kits I remember as a kid were late 60s onwards. I think the 1970s wrere the real boom years for plastic models.

And I remember having a Rat Patrol set (1:72?) that included a jeep & tank... They don't make shows like that any more!

Tom
Bratushka
Visit this Community
Indiana, United States
Member Since: May 09, 2008
entire network: 1,019 Posts
KitMaker Network: 332 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 - 11:01 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Jim,

Long Island, New York? I grew up there! We were lucky enough to have a model shop in Sayville called Dick's Hobbyland that sold all manner of models. (I started going there around 1971 if memory serves...) Tanks were a big thing and Tamiya was just starting to dominate the scene, but Monogram was fighting a spirited retreat! Of course the aircraft & car sections were much bigger.

Tamiya augmented its motorised line with the "Military Miniatures" series that were true-scale 1:35 non-motored subjects like schwimmwagens and figure sets, but they still sell their old off-scale kits just without the motor gear.

My older brother had a collection that included some real "dinosaur" tanks like the Revell Sherman (sorta 1:40th scale) that I think was released way back in the late 50s, but most of the tank kits I remember as a kid were late 60s onwards. I think the 1970s wrere the real boom years for plastic models.

And I remember having a Rat Patrol set (1:72?) that included a jeep & tank... They don't make shows like that any more!

Tom



Hi Tom. I grew up east of Bridgehampton in Wainscott. I later lived in Riverhead- Flanders actually before I left NY for good. I still have some siblings there in Quogue, Manorville, Flanders, and Mattituck. I don't know how they afford it! One sister escaped to Williamstown, Victoria, Australia and brother who's a Navy Lifer lives in Virginia Beach. My temporary stay in Indiana on my way to Phoenix, Arizona via Manhattan (there's irony for ya!)Kansas had lasted some 32 years now.

I remember Sayville but don't recall ever stopping there with the old man. Hampton Bays to Sag Harbor were our old stomping grounds. Patchogue in general and Smith Haven Mall in Lake grove were our big time shopping towns.

This has gotten my curiosity aroused about the old tank kits. I may have to nose around eBay for them. Yep, Rat patrol was a great show! Growing up my favorite show of all was Combat! with Vic Morrow. I remember as a kid my best Christmas ever was one when I got a solid plastic Army helmet with the netting. To top it off I got a toy military style.45 Thompson PLUS an Army belt and a toy .45 in a holster. I also got a Dick Tracy Tommyburst machine gun that would cook off a roll of caps with just a few trigger pulls. It had a mechanism that spun the hub the roll of caps went on like a flywheel. I also got the matching Dick Tracy Policeman Pump 12 guage shot gun that was a water gun that rivaled any moder super soaker! Kids today don't know what they are missing!) My Mom at my insistence had bought me a much too big boy scout uniform at a church rummage sale months before. I didn't care! it was a uniform and it was green! As soon as spring came I mastered digging foxholes and camouflaging them in the field by my house. I even caught the old man's Buick big time one day! It got solid stuck, frame on the ground 2 wheels in holes one day when he was looking for me while I was on maneuvers! I toughed the beating out by pretending he was an evil Nazi commandant trying to extract information from me!
CMOT
Staff MemberEditor-in-Chief
ARMORAMA
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Member Since: May 14, 2006
entire network: 10,954 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,873 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 - 11:08 AM UTC
Jim 1/35th scale aircraft would be risky but may work for you, your enemy being price and size verse detail. What may be a better option is aircraft segments aimed at diorama use with perhaps an artwork showing the rest of the aircraft, this would overcome size and price and appeal to a larger number of diorama builders. Aircraft segments could also appeal to figure painters as in theory you could take it up to even larger scales while keeping the price and size down.

I look at 1/48th and 1/24th scale aircraft (I like Airfix reminds me of being a kid), I would look at complete 1/35th scale aircraft kits however some concerns would exist depending on aircraft type. As said earlier there is/was a manufacturer looking at releasing some 1/35th scale aircraft (Jim R ran a news story late 2008 or early 2009) but I have seen nothing of them as yet.

I believe that 1/48th scale struggles where AFV’s are concerned because the figures are not there and a number of what is are not great. Most of the time we don’t include figures in our builds but they are there if we want them, and I believe that is what makes the difference in the scales even though its something most of the time we don’t think about.
Bratushka
Visit this Community
Indiana, United States
Member Since: May 09, 2008
entire network: 1,019 Posts
KitMaker Network: 332 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 - 01:59 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Jim 1/35th scale aircraft would be risky but may work for you, your enemy being price and size verse detail. What may be a better option is aircraft segments aimed at diorama use with perhaps an artwork showing the rest of the aircraft, this would overcome size and price and appeal to a larger number of diorama builders. Aircraft segments could also appeal to figure painters as in theory you could take it up to even larger scales while keeping the price and size down.

I look at 1/48th and 1/24th scale aircraft (I like Airfix reminds me of being a kid), I would look at complete 1/35th scale aircraft kits however some concerns would exist depending on aircraft type. As said earlier there is/was a manufacturer looking at releasing some 1/35th scale aircraft (Jim R ran a news story late 2008 or early 2009) but I have seen nothing of them as yet.

I believe that 1/48th scale struggles where AFV’s are concerned because the figures are not there and a number of what is are not great. Most of the time we don’t include figures in our builds but they are there if we want them, and I believe that is what makes the difference in the scales even though its something most of the time we don’t think about.



Except for the 1/35th Storch so far I'm drawing a blank on other aircraft in that scale. Personally, I don't care for 1/48 vehicles. I mentioned above the 4 tanks I bought. I forgot I also have a 1/48 MAZ 67 or whatever the Russian jeep like thing was. It was very small, almost comical! The partial kits sound like a good idea. I'd still love to have a pair of FW 190s on an airfield with a hangar front and a flakvierling 38 off to the side, an Sd Kfz 251 in Luftwaffe colors and a kettenkrad somewhere.

You make a great point on the lack of 1/48 figures. I hadn't thought of that!
Tarok
Visit this Community
Victoria, Australia
Member Since: July 28, 2004
entire network: 10,889 Posts
KitMaker Network: 2,373 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 - 02:08 PM UTC
I disagree about the lack of 1/48 figures, there are plenty of good ones. Just never the exact one you're looking for Nah, seriously, there are plenty of good 1/48 figures available.

While pondering this 1/35 airplane thing, ask yourself this: why would aircraft modellers (who are really the ones that would mostly go for these products as opposed to the AFV modeller building the 'occassional' compatible a/c) want to take up this 'new' scale? Why would a 1/32 scale a/c modeller want to take up 1/35 which is essentially a military armour/diorama scale?
 _GOTOTOP