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Modeling in General: Weathering
Discuss general weathering topics here.
Weather or not
airfix627
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Posted: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 - 10:32 PM UTC
I have been looking a lot at weathered models and boy are they good, but.....
do they have to be weathered.
If you think about it, all vehicles at some stage, normally at the production/delivery stage, are clean and shiney, so why should models not be.
I'm ex artillery, our guns are our colours and our guns where kept in a very clean condition, even on exercises and the end of the training day, the guns went to the wash down before being parked up.
When we had an FFR inspection, from our American cousins, the damm things were polished!! My old battery were that keen on it, we were called The Shiney Six. 6 Bty RA.
So there is a precedent to depict models in a 'shiney new' condition.
What do others think.
sgtreef
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Posted: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 - 11:37 PM UTC
A matter of taste really.
Some do hit them pretty hard on the weathering to show different areas of operation and theaters.
But WW II is a little different then the outing in a Field problem from what I have seen in Mags and Pictures.
We had plenty of time to clean and wash, do not think many wash stations for tanks and trucks in WW II as the troops had a hard time to get a shower let alone wash a truck.
Granted I do think some go overboard with chips and dents as what I have read most did not survive a few months in combat before a refitting or blown up.

My opinion only and yes ours were clean also but even though people trying to attack us {Fake }we really had no Artillery or planes dropping real bombs on us so good to go there.

I guess more will chime in.
But I did notice that tank folks always tried to keep their tank tracks and wheels free of mud and the gun tube clean plus the added Mg's
Grumpyoldman
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Posted: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 - 11:53 PM UTC
Yes and no.
I think a lot depends on 1. your personal preference. 2. On how you are going to display your model. 3. What your model is depicted doing.
NikToo
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Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 08:59 AM UTC
It all depends on your setting, and that's all in your mind. If you want a tank which has just pushed through the Ardennes or a Tunisian winter, then pile on the mud. If you want something on parade then nice and clean. I read somewhere a German tanker who used to drain the diesel from enemy vehicles to wash their tanks with, so even vehicles in the field can be clean.
Tojo72
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Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 09:13 AM UTC
Strictly up to the modeller,Ilike to weather my armor,some lightly some more so,to me a tank is just crying for weathering.My ships and planes I leave clean,although my last WWII plane I did panel lines,weathered wheel wells and cockpit.So really it's just what you want to do.
drabslab
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Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 09:24 AM UTC

Quoted Text


I'm ex artillery, our guns are our colours and our guns where kept in a very clean condition, even on exercises and the end of the training day, the guns went to the wash down before being parked up.
When we had an FFR inspection, from our American cousins, the damm things were polished!! My old battery were that keen on it, we were called The Shiney Six. 6 Bty RA.



This sounds very familiar

I think that a lot depends on the subject. At the time that i was a conscript we had so much time on our hands that we were cleaning the tanks the whole day just to fight utter boredom. Hence, when you are building a NATO subject, in peacetime, of an army that has never seen war you can easily get a way with a model in perfect condition.

The same goes for things like the F-35, F 117 or F-22. There the spotless condition is part of their stealth strategy.

When buildign a German AFV in the middle of the Ardennes end WWII there is a completely different context. Not weathering woulmd be a serious mistake.

On the other hand, i feel that many exagerate weathering. Sometimes planes are prtrayed with "rivets" which look bigger than M32 bolts.

But at the end it is preference I guess
metooshelah
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Posted: Friday, February 12, 2010 - 12:23 AM UTC
no, they do not have to be weathered. I'm finishing an M4, and i quite like it un-weathered and I think it'll stay that way
tinayma
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Posted: Thursday, February 18, 2010 - 02:36 PM UTC
I've had so much trouble weathering, its really an art. I built in 1/72 Dragon Sherman once and did no weathering at all and I was really pleased with it. Sometimes trying to make it look used, or dirty takes the fun out of it for me and there's no point in that right?
airfix627
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Posted: Friday, February 19, 2010 - 12:28 PM UTC
Hi Matan

I certainly agree, clean and new, best way to go

Hi Mark

Yep you hit it on the nail. The price of kits nowadays, seems a shame to dirty it up after all that effort. I'm getting a Trumpeter K5 and once i've built and painted it, no way is that getting dirty.
I personally think models look great clean and shiny.

lespauljames
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Posted: Friday, February 19, 2010 - 01:35 PM UTC
its personal preference, to me a claen and shiny model can sometimes be boring, and why not , add a bit of dust to the running gear, it would be very hard pressed to find vehicles without any dirt oil or grime, and sometimes its a heck of a lot of fun to dirty something up,




for example, the weathering on this PZ III is taken form a few different photographs of PZ III's in the same theatre, (and weather conditions)

also weathering can also enhance the appearence of the model, giveing the viewer different areas too look at, and more overall to take in,


it seems a bit odd to pooh pooh a area of modelling, for some peopel the weatheing stagebrings a kit to life,, and oftentimes twice to three times a much time is spent weathering a model, too much can kill it , and too little may not put across the effect you are trying to achieve.
look at it as man vs nature, you can say for certain what size and shape soemthing man made is, from blueprints and measurements, but there is no way in hell you can predict how a vehicle is going to chip, scratch or accumilate dust and or dry/wet mud, given the right conditions anything can happen,

i think its on the leo 2, where the tracks can rust within a few days of inoperation,

it seems that this thread is an expression of you opinion as opposed to a question regarding wether to weather,


+ on your comment about price of kits vs weatheing ruining, in essence we are all here to have fun, and the longer you can make a kit last the better, so weathering may add 15+ hours to your build, extending the money/hour ratio of the kit, say a DML @ £30 kit takes 15 hours to build, 2 hours to paint, 1 hour to decal, stop there you paid (according to my terrible mathematics) £1.60 for every hour spent building
now for a weatherer smae again dml kit @ £30 15 hours building, 2 hours painting, 1 hour clearcoat decals clearcoat, 5 hours chipping ,4 hours oil dot filtering, and 6 hours pigmenting,
so for one hour of modelling you payed apparently 90pence

do you see my logic?

anyway im not trying to convince you anything, just putting up my "For" argument
Grip84
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Posted: Friday, February 19, 2010 - 03:02 PM UTC
"Well, it depends...." I once had a college instructor who would always preface an answer to any question with that phrase.

Is modeling a technical exercise, in which the intent is to construct a precise, exact miniature replica of a real subject in a factual situation/setting, or is it an art form for the purpose of expressing one's creativity with an interpretation of a real subject, designed to reflect the creator's tastes? Hmm.... Realism vs. Impressionism?

It's probably somewhere in the middle, on a sliding scale depending on the individual's personality and proclivity, always moving, influenced by the work of others and own personal interests and skills.

So, yes, it depends. I think the most successful among us seeks to satisfy their own desires with their modeling efforts, to express and please oneself. If you spend all you time trying to impress and please others, chasing the latest fads and trends, the hobby is, in my opinion, less than satisfying. It's fine to look to the work of others for inspiration and improvement, but ultimately, we have to satisfy and express the creative nature within ourselves. So, weathering on, or weathering off? You decide. I've seen exceptional work in both forms, among numerous subjects.

"This above all: to thine ownself be true" - Polonius in Hamlet by Bill Shakespeare

James: Your Pz III is impressive. Nice job there.

Scott
Uruk-Hai
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Posted: Friday, February 19, 2010 - 03:17 PM UTC
First of all you model them the way you want them to look.

If you want them realistic, study the real subject to determine the weathering and in your case when they are in mint condition.

However, I do sometime hear modellers say that they want to show their subject as they where when leaving factory. On the other hand, many paint schemes where added at unit level as well as some markings and equipment? Some stuff where actually assembled after arrival.

If you want to please other modellers with you work, then its a totally different story.

Cheers
airfix627
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Posted: Friday, February 19, 2010 - 10:38 PM UTC
Hi James
Thanks for your comments, I am not trying to pooh pooh anything, in my first line I said weathered models look good, as by the way is your's, excellent bit of work there.
I think you may have missed the point of what I was thinking, You'll proberbly agree that the vast majority of models one sees on this site are weathered, do they have to be.
Of course the proberble reason why I don't weather is that I'm a bit of a coward in that direction.
But as others have commented, it is personal choice, prehaps I should by a cheap kit and experiment on it.
No matter what, modelling for me, and most others, is a fun way (sometimes) of passing a few hours.
Enjoy your modelling
Plasticbattle
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Posted: Friday, February 19, 2010 - 11:33 PM UTC
Anything that travels over land will get weathered/dirtied/dusty after a very short time .. especially heavy tracked vehicles.
I believe its part and parcle of the military side of the hobby to weather appropriatly. A real artillery piece ... using your example ... over time will start to get weathered ... even though its generally clean and well kept. Weathering doesn“t only mean dirty. Some little scrapes, chips, fading paint, touch ups etc can be added.

The average tank has a lot details .. much more than a civilian car. A scale model doesn“t reflect light/cast shadows in the same way the 1/1 version does. To immitate these effects ... we use painting techniques to "fool the eye" and add realism. Painting techniques have evloved over the years to add these techniques, as well as weathering techniques. To define the details, weathering tricks are often used today instead of the more old fashioned wash and dry brush.

Although not the rule, it has become the norm and expectation. How many non-weathered military vehicles will you see in a magazine? Building a kit OOB and adding a monotone flat colour, is not that attractive. Unfortunatly it might even imply lack of skill and ability. Scratch building and kit bashing are slowly dissapearing. Simple details are not self-made anymore ... they are bought. The kit/kits are merely becoming assembly items .... basically because of the quality and variety. The actual skill of modelling is fast heading towards painting skills and weathering is one of those steps.

Some reasons why weathering is important .... but its your model/your choice.
airfix627
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Posted: Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 12:07 AM UTC
Hi Frank

Some very goods points you have made there. Thanks for pointing it out, I had not thought
of it in that light! Now you have got me thinking!!
exer
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Posted: Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 01:49 AM UTC

Quoted Text

You'll proberbly agree that the vast majority of models one sees on this site are weathered, do they have to be.



Do they have to be?

Yes

Because the modellers who built them wanted them that way.
thegirl
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Posted: Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 02:17 AM UTC
Hi Stuart ! Been following this thread for a while now and I do agree with what Frank has said .

Many aspects of your hobby is dieing out because people want to buy . However with the new range of pigments ( powders ) and premixed washes this is making it easier for the modeller to do more with the weathering . The trick with weathering is to make the detail pop out in the subject and draw the viewer in . But like Frank has said skill plays a big roll in adding this effect . I have seen some very impressive builds with out weathering at all and I have seem some work which the weathering was super , but the lack of skills in the building have totally ruined the subject .

There is no law that says's you have to weather your models , it's your kit build it the way you want to . In the end the only person who has to be pleased or satisfied is yourself , every thing after that is just opinions .

We all have junk kit's in the stash , which are perfect for experimenting on and a great way to build up your skills . Anyone can " assemble " a kit , it takes skill to build it
mat
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Posted: Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 09:16 AM UTC
Well,

I think you should divide models into two groups first: vehicles used in a war (dirty, oily, scratched etc) and vehicles on militairy bases

the ones on militairy bases you can roughly divide into used on exercise (dirty, not chipped) and the ones on the parking space (clean, no chipping).

Even the ones in the parking place can be divided again, e.g. by age. Our Dutch Leo 2 tanks always look clean and shiny on the pictures, like they come right out the showroom. Our DAF trucks, although clean, usually all had unique colours due to extreme sunlight fading and the fact that diesel fuel was mixed into the paint by many crews. I was told by a friend in the army that they had so little to do that they painted and cleaned the vehicles constantly just to have something to do.

So I think weathering does not have to be very much unless a vehicle has seen some actual battle and has been in action for a longer period of time.
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