Just read an artical on a fellow vet named Chapman on line. I don't know about how others would feel after reading this story, but it is an embarrasment to our country and a slap to our vets. Come on congress, these are our vets, what the hell is going on. There is no reasson for our vets to have to endure this nonsence. This is 2009, and we still tout about how good and great we are, so great that a situation like this has unfolded within our society. I for one, am embarassed today, to be an American. I think I will fly my flag upside down till this is addressed and prevented in the future.

A link to the story or mnore details muight be helpful.

Here is a link

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wirestory?id=9198226&page=1

Pretty sad story. I'm don't want to get up on a soap box or anything, I mean I just read this story because of this thread, but it's a shame that a vet like Mr. Chapman is denied care while millions of able bodied people in this country continue to milk the system for everything it's worth.

Hermon

The greater indictment is that ANYONE should be denied the care they need.

Good point. Agreed.

Hermon

Forgot the link, thanks Herman. Still cant make any sence why.

I was always under the impression that the USA took care of its military personnel both active and retired to a very high standard. This ending of a person’s life due to the powers that be putting hoops to jump through and problems in the way of his treatment is a very sad reflection on what the USA has become, and at a time when the USA is sending more troops to a war zone. So much for the almighty dollar and land of the free.

The VA has some major problems that really need to be straighten out


OH wait------it's the same people who want to run everybody's health care---- they can't provide the total health care to all the veterans, that need and want it, and everyone thinks they can do it the OB way.....

I'm old, senile, a vet, and not born on the 4th of July, nor under a rock.

Sorry Dave I disagree as they should be treating Ex-Military to a high standard especially when it would appear to be mental issues going back 60 years if I understood it correctly. I don't know what the OB way is?

Darren, we are actually agreeing.
The way the VA treats it's vets is a disgrace.
Plain and simple.
I was in a VA hospital in the early 80's.
Watch the old Ollie Stone movie "Born on the 4th of July" the VA hospital scenes are really a good representation of the VA during the 70's and early 80's. They cleaned their act up after the movie caused a lot of heat on the politicians for allowing it to get in such crappy conditions. But like anything the politicians run, soon as the heat from the public went away, the same old crap came back. Typical Government FUBAR.

The way the VA treats it's older vets from pass wars is a total disgrace.
I've seen it first hand. The vets take better care of each other than the frickin staff. If you can find a staff member that's an actual vet, you stand a better chance, but from what I've seen first hand, they seem to be far and few in-between.

Granted, I haven't been a patient at a VA hospital since the early 80's, but still go and visit friends when they end up there, and have been known to take a few there to start getting them into the system, which takes forever, and constant denials.

The most fun part is proving you are a vet--- over and over and over.
Be sure to have copies of your separation papers at all times with you. At least 50 to start the process, as everyone you see will want one, and it certainly appears there are no copying machines in VA hospitals.
Also plan on spending the day for any doctor visits. Even a simple PT blood test seems to require at least 4 hours.

Anybody wonder why I'm so grumpy lately?
Drop a buddy off for treatment, then visit him a few days later.

I'm off my soap box now.

I receive all my treatment through the VA. The doctors and nurses are great. I cannot find any fault with the medical treatment I get. Having said that, I think I should point what Mr. Chapman's problems with the VA really were, the administration of benefits. So here is some insight from a former VA employee.

In order to get benefits, a veteran must meet eligibility requirements. A veteran must have an "other than dishonorable" discharge and either meet certain income requirements or have service connected disabilities. Mr. Chapman had honorable service so this requirement was met. He was working and had social security payments as well as VA compensation. So his treatment depended on service connected conditions rather than income. A 60% rating would have qualified him for medical treatment. He was not service connected for PTSD because he apparently did not meat the congressionally mandated requirements for that condition. PTSD requires a diagnosis and a stressor, and he apparently had a diagnosis. The article leads me to believe he could not provide the VA with a verifiable stressor. This could be proven by showing he had participated in actual combat, had a combat medal, was in a unit that sustained combat injuries, or was on a ship that was sunk. In Mr. Chapman’s case, he could have given the VA names of buddies on his ship that were wounded or killed. (I personally think this is a crock of $hit, because people in the military can experience the horrors of war even if they were not in actual combat.) So, did the VA screw Mr. Chapman? Probably yes. But I don’t think it was his caregivers. I think it was the VA Bureaucracy that failed him so miserably.

The VA Bureaucracy that failed him is really complex.

Doctors evaluate the medical conditions after just a few minutes with the veteran. My VA file contains about 18 inches of Paperwork. There is no way a doctor can review all the medical evidence in 15 minutes.

The decisions are made by bureaucrats with absolutely no medical knowledge or training. These decision makers often refer to prior decisions to make new decisions. Prejudice is a big factor in the decisions. Training on the law and VA procedures is virtually non-existent. There are not enough decision makers to keep up with the workload. I was in training for 3 weeks and never even saw y trainer. She was promoted, and a new trainer was promoted into that position. She had little or no experience in the areas she trained us in.

The laws governing decisions are so complex that most of the decision makers cannot keep up with them. The VA procedures manual governing decisions is easily four feet thick. Court decisions change laws constantly. Decision makers often overlook regs in order to meet their quota, as it is more expedient to do so. Also, my old boss and a co-worker worker just pleaded guilty to fraud. They stole almost a million dollars over the last 8-9 years. When I complained about one of them, it was largely ignored. It took them about eight years to catch them.

When an appealed decision is overturned, the person making the original decision is usually not aware of it, and is free to continue making the same mistake over and over again. There is no oversight.

Supervisors are more concerned with the number of decisions than the quality of decisions. One supervisor (the number two guy at the time) actually sent out an e-mail to stop granting benefits when we met our quota for that month, and hold on to them until the next month so we could meet our quota for the next month also. Stupid and illegal, but it shows the mindset of the supervisory staff. This same guy promoted one worker bee that barely knew how to turn on his computer to a supervisory position. That incomp is now a claims rater. You can see where I am going with this.

Many of the worker bees are not competent in their jobs, largely due to the high turnover. It is a very stressful job. Workers that try to actually go out of their way to help veterans are harassed for not keeping up with their quota. Other workers come in late, spend the first hour gossiping, and then take 2-hour lunch breaks. Supervisors are afraid to discipline some of the employees for some really stupid reasons.

The system of congressional complaints is a joke. Nobody from the congressional staff actually investigates a congressional complaint. A VA employee provides a canned answer to a congressional staffer, who forwards it to the complainant. Can anybody see a problem with letting the people causing the problem, investigate the problem?

The VA Benefits system is broken. And we complain. It is so broken that congress does not even want to address the issue. President Obama could call me up tomorrow, give me the mission to go and clean up the local office, and I could do it. But then we would end up with an office full of claims, and nobody to work them. As miserable as the system is, it is better than the alternative.

This rant is all directed at the Veterans Benefits Administration. I don't have a single complaint about the healthcare provided to me. So to all you who think our system is the model system, be assured, we have problems. It is very unfortunate that those out there serving now, are going to soon find out they are coming home to a system that is so broken that it is virtually useless.

It is disgracefull, but no politician has the fortitude to fix it.

Carl,
Best indictment of the "benefits' end of the VA I've ever read. I'd suggest sending it to the new head of the VA, but I don't think it would make any difference.
To any employee of the VA that reads this, and works at serving the vet and does his/her job to the best of their ability in that ..... called the Veterans Administration-I SINCERELY THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR HARD WORK.
signed,
A Grateful Veteran

Thanks. When I sent an e-mail to my supervisor informing him the supervisor with-holding benefits because we had met quota that month could land people in jail, I ended up being put under the microscope myself. That is why I decided to retire.

But I would like to make it very clear that most of the people working at the VA try to do the right thing. Unfortunately, the system makes it very, very hard to do so.