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Modeling in General
General discussions about modeling topics.
Resin and Oils
trabanino
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Guatemala
Member Since: December 16, 2004
entire network: 83 Posts
KitMaker Network: 26 Posts
Posted: Friday, October 16, 2009 - 01:18 PM UTC
Hello mates, i read about the danger of the dust of the resin, im aware of that , but even with a mask some times i can fell a funny smell wich it comes from the resin figures, is this smell danger as well.

And the other question. Im use to paint with oils, but since i heard about the danger of the exposure of the heavy metals in the pigments of the oils i try acrylics with bad result, at least for me. So how safe are the oils even with the AP label (non toxic label).

Thanks
mat
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Limburg, Netherlands
Member Since: November 18, 2003
entire network: 894 Posts
KitMaker Network: 127 Posts
Posted: Friday, October 16, 2009 - 06:29 PM UTC
Hi,

there's a lot of talking about resin dust. The danger about resin dust is apparantly not because it is resin, but because the particles are very fine and can do damage to your lungs, just like any kind of fine dust from sanding dust or exhaust fumes.

Resin itself can cause an itching feeling on the skin when working with it for some people. Best is to wet sand, you have no dust and a better result anyway. What is really toxic is plastic cement, putty and the fumes of CA glue.

Resin has a smell, if it's toxic I don't know. If it really was, it would have been forbidden years ago over here with our strict environmental laws over here. But that is just my opinion. I know someone who works with these health issues caused by dust and chemicals, and he says that there is noting as unhealty as driving a car, living near any busy road or a factory or sleeping on a new matress.

Heay metals in paint, I don't know if that is still allowed in Europe. But as long as you don't get in contact with them they are pretty harmless. They are dangerous when they get inside your digestive system since they will never leave your body anymore. There is a story that the Roman empire collapsed because they all got mentally ill because of the lead water pipes they used (not a historical proven fact by the way) There was also a problem with lead paint I remember many years ago. When it got old and started to deteriorate, the particles got into peoples bodies who lived/worked in building in which the paint was used.

So to answer your question: is the modelling stuff you use toxic? Any toxicologist will tell you that it all depends on the dosage and the period that you get exposed to it.

If you are really worried, you could always ask your doctor, he/she is a trained professional. Modellers are generally speaking no medical experts. All I said above here is just what I heard and what my opnion is. There are I assume people who know more facts or have a diffent opnion
elph
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Seoul, Korea / 대한민국
Member Since: November 13, 2005
entire network: 319 Posts
KitMaker Network: 46 Posts
Posted: Friday, October 16, 2009 - 10:48 PM UTC
I think this is an important issue which doesn't get enough attention; that is chemicals in the glues and paints. I follow some basic rules which although sound like common sense, you'd be surprised how many modellers don't follow. First, I always have my window open even in winter. When spraying use an approved spray mask not dust mask and spray booth both together. Keep CA glues in containers. If I get paint, glue or putty on my hands, I wash almost immediately - get it all off completely. Always sand wet and in an old kit box especially resin. Also, use a dust mask too. I remember someone put a posting up a few years ago saying they were sanding a lot of resin in an unventilated place, suddenly they had difficulty breathing and had to be taken to the hospital. It sounded quite serious, so although it may be a bit of a hassle, it's best to protect yourself. Finally, the best thing to do is switch over to water based paints. They may be more expensive, but they give you peace of mind. You don't want to go to the doctor one day and he says your got some form of rare cancer, so it's worth the effort every time.
MCR
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Arizona, United States
Member Since: July 15, 2004
entire network: 464 Posts
KitMaker Network: 54 Posts
Posted: Saturday, October 17, 2009 - 04:49 AM UTC
I did some research a few years back on the subject of polyurethane and polyester resin dust - the short answer is that their dusts, from sanding and cutting, are not significantly more toxic than wood dust or any number of other particulates we commonly encounter during a day.

Just like wood and house dust some people have a sensitivity to the chemicals in resin dust and exposure can cause what is called, IIRC, "contact dermatitis" (a rash and itching or burning sensation), They may also cause breathing problems in people who are sensitive. If you are not sensitive then it should not be a major problem.

As far as I've been able to tell the fumes from polyurethane resin are not harmful at reasonable concentrations (remember that even wood smoke from a fireplace or campfire has quantities of highly "toxic" chemicals but in amounts so small that a reasonable man doesn't worry about them).
When building a resin figure or model I'm not sure how you could get concentrations high enough to be a serious problem but work in a well ventilated room (which is always a good idea anyway).

However, problems do occur when large amounts of these dusts are breathed (the same warnings are applicable to wheat flower, and any other fine particulates) and sanding large blocks of resin can kick up significant amounts of dust.
Wear a good quality dust mask and/or, as suggested, use wet and dry sandpaper and lots of water when sanding resin.
If you sand and find that you get a rash and itching on your hands and arms wash with warm water and soap and use gloves and wear a long sleeve shirt in addition to the dust mask or simply stop using resin in your hobby if your reaction is bad enough to make you worry about it.

As stated some oil paints can contain lead or cadmium, metals that can cause severe health problems BUT these are more and more rare. I seem to recall that both have been banned in some countries. Your paints should be clearly labeled IF they contain either of these metals or any other significant toxins.
If you do have such oil paints here is the trick: Don't eat them! There you go, you are safe now.
In all seriousness ingestion (swallowing) is the No.1 rout of heavy metal contamination. Inhalation (breathing) and absorption (through skin contact) are much less likely to cause a problem in paints.
Don't stick your paint brushes in your mouth while painting and wash your hands when you are finished, those two things should keep you plenty safe.

By the way: Super Glue (Cyanoacrylate or CA glues) do NOT contain Cyanide! Their fumes, though irritating, are not particularly toxic.

Please note that I am not an expert on the above subjects and I am only relaying information that I have found through research and believe to be reasonable accurate. Read and understand any warning labels on the products you use and follow basic safety rules and you shouldn't have anything to worry about.

trabanino
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Guatemala
Member Since: December 16, 2004
entire network: 83 Posts
KitMaker Network: 26 Posts
Posted: Monday, October 19, 2009 - 09:33 AM UTC
Thanks guys for the info, i asked cause im on my own research abotu the hobby and the healt issue and like everiything else there is a lot of info that makes you thinks twice, i find out that some paint have a label from the Art and Creative Material Institute, this guy test the craft an art material to determinte how toxic they are. So we have the AP label (non toxic) ande CL (Caution Label) every tube of oils, bottle of paint have this label, you can check their site

http://www.acminet.org/index.htm

in here you can look for the brand of paint you use and see if that will make you sick, In this site they label the Winton Oils with the AP label (non toxic) but if you check the safet sheet fot the Windsor and Newton site, they said that the oils can cause acute sickness, so who is right???. Some guys say that the acrylics are the safest way to paint, but there are some acrylics paint that contain amoniac, so its hard to really determinate if its or not toxic.

Im kind of a safety freek, my safety messures are wet sanding (of course) wear Mask when sand or spray paint. Gloves when use epoxi putties, and im planning to build spray booth, i already got a pair of fans wich my brother gave me, those where from a lab and they were designed to clean the air, and im always looking for new paint safety techiques (by now im trying primming with Gesso to avoid the automotive primer, and painting with artist acrylics). So thanks again for the info.

P.D: Ill share wiht you guys the results of priming with Gesso.
MCR
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Arizona, United States
Member Since: July 15, 2004
entire network: 464 Posts
KitMaker Network: 54 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 - 06:29 AM UTC
First, remember that Material Safety Data Sheets (which can be found for almost any product just by asking the manufacturer) are intended for industrial level users of the product in most cases though they are available for consumer level products too.

Much of the information on them is directed at someone who uses the product eight hours a day, five days a week.
To use them correctly you should understand some basic things about how toxicity is determined. All that can be found on line.
At a minimum you need to understand the concepts of TLV, PEL, and IDHL to name just a few and even then the definition of what is "toxic" and what isn't can change depending on a number of factors.

A product may contain something "toxic" but in quantities small enough that it can not cause health problems in normal use.

Being concerned with your safety is wise but being over concerned will just ruin your life.
Wood smoke contains literally hundreds of highly toxic chemicals, do you avoid charcoal or wood fires or food that was prepared on them?
Apples contain cyanide!! Do you avoid eating them? And the same is true for many fruits and vegetables, they contain toxins that evolution has provided them to help fight off insects and other pests.
Drinking water can kill you. You just need to drink a lot in a short period of time to make it toxic.
Most toothpastes contain "poisonous" additives which is why they warn you not to swallow more than you would normally use just to brush your teeth.

The question is not if there something "harmful" or "poisonous" in this or that product but, when they do contain such things (and almost anything you use will to some extent), how much do I need to be exposed to before it becomes a real concern?
For most hobby products it is going to be far more than you could possibly expose yourself to building a kit or painting a figure, especially if you are taking normal safety precautions (like opening a window while you are using glue or painting).

In our hobby there are many toxic chemicals used but in quantities so small that you would have to be building or painting eight hours a day five days a week in poor conditions before they become a health issue.

Don't breath the undiluted fumes of hobby cement or paints.
Don't soak your skin in solvents for prolonged periods of time
Don't chew on your brushes if they have oil paint on them
Don't use spray paints in a small, enclosed room

Do work in a well ventilated space. Open a window or door and turn on a fan
Do wear an approved filter mask when using an airbrush or spray can
Do wash your hands after painting and before eating
Do Read, and most importantly, understand product labels and warnings

I'm not trying to talk you out of being "safe" by your own definition but your not using automotive primers due to concerns about the possible issues suggests that, in my opinion, you may be worrying more than is really necessary.





trabanino
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Guatemala
Member Since: December 16, 2004
entire network: 83 Posts
KitMaker Network: 26 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 08:09 AM UTC

I'm not trying to talk you out of being "safe" by your own definition but your not using automotive primers due to concerns about the possible issues suggests that, in my opinion, you may be worrying more than is really necessary.

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Maybe You are right. Maybe im over worriyig about this issue.

Thanks
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