History Club
Military history and past events only. Rants or inflamitory comments will be removed.
Hosted by Frank Amato
US Tank names ?
goldnova72
Visit this Community
Alberta, Canada
Member Since: February 21, 2009
entire network: 627 Posts
KitMaker Network: 29 Posts
Posted: Saturday, September 26, 2009 - 12:44 AM UTC
Pre ww2 US tanks were M3 light ,M3 medium ,etc . The Brits got the M3 light in Africa ,loved it ,started calling it Honey. Than it became Stuart , the M3 med .became Lee/Grant. M4 med -Sherman. All named after US Generals. Naming US tanks this way has continued thru til today.
Chaffee , Pershing , Sheridan , Patton ,etc. ...Abrams.
Why then is the M36 called the (Gen. Stonewall) Jackson ,but the M10 is call Wolverine (X-man conection ? lol) And how about the M18 Hellcat?
Were all names army policy or given by troops and just stuck ?
thks Jim
18Bravo
Visit this Community
Colorado, United States
Member Since: January 20, 2005
entire network: 7,219 Posts
KitMaker Network: 981 Posts
Posted: Saturday, September 26, 2009 - 06:02 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Pre ww2 US tanks were M3 light ,M3 medium ,etc . The Brits got the M3 light in Africa ,loved it ,started calling it Honey. Than it became Stuart , the M3 med .became Lee/Grant. M4 med -Sherman. All named after US Generals. Naming US tanks this way has continued thru til today.

thks Jim



Well, your logic is just a tad flawed. Lee and Stuart were never US generals.
And neither was Jackson.
Halfyank
Visit this Community
Colorado, United States
Member Since: February 01, 2003
entire network: 5,221 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,983 Posts
Posted: Saturday, September 26, 2009 - 06:20 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Well, your logic is just a tad flawed. Lee and Stuart were never US generals.
And neither was Jackson.



That's a bit harsh. While they may not have technically been "US" generals the rest of the world probably thinks of them as US, even if they made general as part of the CSA.

As to the Wolverine I don't believe that was ever an official name during the war. I understand that the British normally referred to it as the M-10, with the 17 pounder version being referred to as "M10, 17 pounder."

Hellcat was the promotional name that Buick came up with to promote the M18. I don't believe it was ever officially called that by the army.
acav
Visit this Community
Auckland, New Zealand
Member Since: May 09, 2002
entire network: 517 Posts
KitMaker Network: 183 Posts
Posted: Saturday, September 26, 2009 - 11:45 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I understand that the British normally referred to it as the M-10, with the 17 pounder version being referred to as "M10, 17 pounder."



The 17 pdr M10 was called the Achilles.

acav out
russamotto
Visit this Community
Utah, United States
Member Since: December 14, 2007
entire network: 3,389 Posts
KitMaker Network: 625 Posts
Posted: Saturday, September 26, 2009 - 12:47 PM UTC
Per the US Army, the Sherman tank was the M4 medium tank. The Lee and Stuart were the M3 medium and M3(A1) light tank. Soldiers referred to them by their military number designation. The practice of naming them after generals came from the British. To my knowledge (which is heavily flawed) the Pershing was the first tank the US actually named after a general. The M36 was referred to by US soldiers as the "slugger" for it's hard hitting ability. The M18 was called the Hellcat by the manufacturer because it was a fast fighter. The M4 had a host of names, most of which probably can't be repeated in public.
jowady
Member Since: June 12, 2006
entire network: 1,027 Posts
KitMaker Network: 115 Posts
Posted: Saturday, September 26, 2009 - 01:57 PM UTC
Before and during WW2, American Vehicles did not officially receive names. The M-3 Medium was simply that. The names Lee, Grant, Sherman, etc. came courtesy of the British.
goldnova72
Visit this Community
Alberta, Canada
Member Since: February 21, 2009
entire network: 627 Posts
KitMaker Network: 29 Posts
Posted: Sunday, September 27, 2009 - 02:56 AM UTC
Ok ,so the tanks were named after American Civil War Generals by the British. Just trying to figure out why?? I can't see the names of same would be comman conversation points for your average Tommy .British tanks had names starting with C (OK V -Valentine),but 95% C. ( SPGs were named for clergy...Deacon ,Priest ,Bishop. Tank Destrroyers started with A- Achilles . ) Why name them after US (sorry Robert) generals ? 70 years on from the start of WW2 ,there's not too many guys left to ask. .... Jim
russamotto
Visit this Community
Utah, United States
Member Since: December 14, 2007
entire network: 3,389 Posts
KitMaker Network: 625 Posts
Posted: Sunday, September 27, 2009 - 09:57 AM UTC
I imagine the use of general's names from the Revolution would still be somewhat of a sore issue. The US Civil War produced some very well known generals that had easy name recognition. The British use of American generals for the naming of equipment produced in the US was their way of quick name reference, that is, American name, American built vehicle. The priest, bishop, etc, got their names from the "pulpit" at the front of the vehicle and the name carried on from there.
jowady
Member Since: June 12, 2006
entire network: 1,027 Posts
KitMaker Network: 115 Posts
Posted: Sunday, September 27, 2009 - 03:00 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Ok ,so the tanks were named after American Civil War Generals by the British. Just trying to figure out why?? I can't see the names of same would be comman conversation points for your average Tommy .British tanks had names starting with C (OK V -Valentine),but 95% C. ( SPGs were named for clergy...Deacon ,Priest ,Bishop. Tank Destrroyers started with A- Achilles . ) Why name them after US (sorry Robert) generals ? 70 years on from the start of WW2 ,there's not too many guys left to ask. .... Jim



Interest in the ACW was quite high in many British Military Circles, including analysis by JFC Fuller and Lidell Hart. Grant's campaigns were taught at Sandhurst. Churchill himself had a rather keen interest in American History. The British wanted to acknowledge that this equipment was coming from America. In point of fact, the British named other pieces of equipment famous to Americans, including naming the P-51 as the "Mustang." No Mustangs in Britain, why not name it the Thoroughbred? BTW, The USAAFs original name was the "Apache." This is fairly well documented, I am surprised that the answer seems controversial.
casailor
Member Since: June 22, 2007
entire network: 165 Posts
KitMaker Network: 56 Posts
Posted: Sunday, September 27, 2009 - 04:55 PM UTC
The use of American general's names to identify American tanks came about because to British couldn't see the logic of having a M3 light tank, a M3 medium tank as well as a M3 half track. (I agree even as a ex-GI I think it was needlessly confusing.) As to using Civil war gernerals names, Revolutionary and 1812 war generals would be politically incorrect,
there weren't many well-known American WWI generals. So by default, Civil War won out. At least they picked names from both the US and CSA Armies.
jowady
Member Since: June 12, 2006
entire network: 1,027 Posts
KitMaker Network: 115 Posts
Posted: Monday, September 28, 2009 - 07:22 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The use of American general's names to identify American tanks came about because to British couldn't see the logic of having a M3 light tank, a M3 medium tank as well as a M3 half track. (I agree even as a ex-GI I think it was needlessly confusing.) As to using Civil war gernerals names, Revolutionary and 1812 war generals would be politically incorrect,
there weren't many well-known American WWI generals. So by default, Civil War won out. At least they picked names from both the US and CSA Armies.



Post war of course, the British did name the B-50 (I believe) the "Washington." Personally though, in the realm of aircraft, i prefer out "Wildcat" name to the British "Martlet". BTW, I agree about the confusion of M-3s, toss in the M-3 3 inch gun as well, and wasn't there an M-3 submachine gun? My favorite of course is that the P-38 is both a fighter and a can opener, of course, as many P-38s in Europe were used in ground attack I guess that some Germans found the designation interchangeable as well.
GeraldOwens
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Member Since: March 30, 2006
entire network: 3,736 Posts
KitMaker Network: 35 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - 08:09 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Ok ,so the tanks were named after American Civil War Generals by the British. Just trying to figure out why?? I can't see the names of same would be comman conversation points for your average Tommy .British tanks had names starting with C (OK V -Valentine),but 95% C. ( SPGs were named for clergy...Deacon ,Priest ,Bishop. Tank Destrroyers started with A- Achilles . ) Why name them after US (sorry Robert) generals ? 70 years on from the start of WW2 ,there's not too many guys left to ask. .... Jim


Specifically, British cruiser tanks had names starting with C (the exception was the war's premier infantry tank, the Churchill, named for obvious sentimental reasons). Postwar, the cruiser tank became the medium tank, and eventually, the main battle tank, but the c-name tradition lives on today.
The Brits chose famous US generals from the Civil War era as a convenience (and an easy way for someone unfamiliar with tanks to recognize a US Lend Lease product). The "Lee" was supposed to be the M3 Medium with the original turret and the "Grant" was supposed to be the variant with the turret customized for the British with a bulge to accommodate the radio. In practice, they were all eventually called Grants, as most parts were interchangeable.
"Jackson" seems to be a postwar invention--I've never seen a wartime reference to the term, and indeed, it only seems to turn up on scale model boxes. "Achilles" also seems to be a mostly postwar usage. As mentioned, "Hellcat" was invented by the Buick company's promotional department, not the US or British Army. "Wolverine" is definitely postwar, and may have been coined by the Canadian military, if indeed it was used at all.
The American use of names for tank types was not official until the M26 Pershing came along, but some names just seemed to fit, and worked their way into slang. Thus, "Sherman Tank" became a popular term among US troops (at least the infantry), and gave rise to the 1940's-50's slang phrase "built like a Sherman Tank," meaning large and sturdy (and not necessarily a compliment if referring to a woman).
Of course, American servicemen are notoriously independent, and often steadfastly refuse to use official, Pentagon-approved names if they are deemed to be public relations BS. Thus, the Boeing B-52 Stratofortress became the "BUFF" (Big Ugly Fat F---er), the A7D Corsair II became the "SLUF" (Short Little Ugly F---er), the F-105 Thunderchief became the "Thud," and the M551 Sheridan became the "Shank" (supposedly from "Sheridan Tank," though its unreliability might imply that it could stab you in the back when you were counting on it). The short-lived M60A2 tank (which carried the same gun/missile launcher as the Sheridan), never had an official name, but it was dubbed "The Starship," due to its extreme technical complexity (it was also very unloved). Most armor crews have preferred to just use the alphanumeric designation, or would simply refer to their vehicle as "the tank" (if it was ) or "the track" (if it wasn't), though "Bradley" is a widely used name for the M2/M3 family.
pigsty
Visit this Community
United Kingdom
Member Since: January 16, 2007
entire network: 1,226 Posts
KitMaker Network: 116 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 - 01:54 AM UTC
"Sherman tank" has another popular meaning ...