I am posting the following to warn all of a very dishonest member. Lee Cleeton (panzerboy1944) jad entered into a trade with me on October 29th. The trade was actually more in his favor but I agreed since my modeling tastes have changed. I sent my trade, never got one back or an email explaining. After numerous pm's and emails to him ([email protected]) he replied that he was sick, had the package ready to send, and would mail it out. It never came. Neither did any other pm's or emails. All my later efforts to contact went unanswered. I am sure he is an exception among our members. But I have to label him as a thief pure and simple. If this rouses him to contact me I will gladly appologize profusely to him and all membors. But till then my opinion of him stands. Here is the pm and email I sent him two days ago:
Lee, Since I do not get any responce from emails or pm's, I have to assume that you are not going to send any contact and that you have stolen my trade. I hope that you are happy as a thief, but I firmly believe that what goes around, comes around. It is not easy for me to label people in a negative way, but you leave me no choice. Your only email to me was that you had the flu and the package was ready to go out. You even had the nerve to say my package arrived in perfect shape. If your "flu" turned into a major hospital stay and you could not contact me, then I appologize for this letter. But somehow I do not think this is the case. I think you never planned to trade, just to steal. Well your plan worked. I am going to post this letter on Armorscale in two days. That will be almost a month since I heard from you. I am also going to add your full name and address and email address so there will be no confusion as to who and what you are. Contact me before the two days and maybe we can work it out still. I am also going to email this to your address.
So be it.
Hosted by Jim Starkweather
warning-Panzerboy1944
sniper34
Member Since: June 02, 2008
entire network: 229 Posts
KitMaker Network: 162 Posts
Posted: Saturday, November 22, 2008 - 09:56 AM UTC
Kuno-Von-Dodenburg
Member Since: February 20, 2007
entire network: 1,453 Posts
KitMaker Network: 89 Posts
Posted: Saturday, November 22, 2008 - 09:30 PM UTC
Chaz,
Sorry to hear you've had a bad trading experience because I'm pretty sure that 99.999 per cent of the guys & girls on here are fine upstanding citizens and paragons of honesty.
It is though I think inevitable that you're always going to find the odd "rogue trader", and if it turns out on the strength of the evidence that this guy "panzerboy1944" has made a habit of hoodwinking folks, then he should - at the very least - be unceremomiously booted out of the Kitmaker network, IMHO.
However, I've skimmed through his posts and in fairness, there do appear to be at least two other guys who are happy with his trades - so maybe we don't know the whole story?
Maybe panzerboy1944 is indeed a cyberthief - or maybe he's currently laid up in hospital with a serious illness? Maybe he's had a bereavement or maybe his wife has run off with his best friend and he currently has other things on his mind?
Either way, it's impossible for us to say with absolute certainty what the situation is - so perhaps it's time for the powers-that-be here to consider introducing some sort of eBay-style feedback system for trading, so that guys can see immediately and at a glance what sort of experiences (good or bad) others have had when dealing with the same potential trading partners?
I think that would be much better and far clearer to all than the current method of guys posting "good trader notices" (or indeed "warnings") that soon get lost in the mix as new posts appear.
So Mods - if you're reading this, how about it?
- Steve
Sorry to hear you've had a bad trading experience because I'm pretty sure that 99.999 per cent of the guys & girls on here are fine upstanding citizens and paragons of honesty.
It is though I think inevitable that you're always going to find the odd "rogue trader", and if it turns out on the strength of the evidence that this guy "panzerboy1944" has made a habit of hoodwinking folks, then he should - at the very least - be unceremomiously booted out of the Kitmaker network, IMHO.
However, I've skimmed through his posts and in fairness, there do appear to be at least two other guys who are happy with his trades - so maybe we don't know the whole story?
Maybe panzerboy1944 is indeed a cyberthief - or maybe he's currently laid up in hospital with a serious illness? Maybe he's had a bereavement or maybe his wife has run off with his best friend and he currently has other things on his mind?
Either way, it's impossible for us to say with absolute certainty what the situation is - so perhaps it's time for the powers-that-be here to consider introducing some sort of eBay-style feedback system for trading, so that guys can see immediately and at a glance what sort of experiences (good or bad) others have had when dealing with the same potential trading partners?
I think that would be much better and far clearer to all than the current method of guys posting "good trader notices" (or indeed "warnings") that soon get lost in the mix as new posts appear.
So Mods - if you're reading this, how about it?
- Steve
Sabot
Member Since: December 18, 2001
entire network: 12,596 Posts
KitMaker Network: 2,557 Posts
entire network: 12,596 Posts
KitMaker Network: 2,557 Posts
Posted: Sunday, November 23, 2008 - 01:22 AM UTC
Members here have had issues with him in the past. Here is a thread about it, but I know there were earlier ones as well.
Feedback for Panzerboy1944
I almost entered into a trade with him for my DML M4A3-POA-CWS-H5, but received a PM from someone who had some difficulties with him in the past. Then I remembered the others who had some hiccups in completing trades. I don't think he's a cyber thief, just very slow. Not worth the aggravation in my opinion.
Feedback for Panzerboy1944
I almost entered into a trade with him for my DML M4A3-POA-CWS-H5, but received a PM from someone who had some difficulties with him in the past. Then I remembered the others who had some hiccups in completing trades. I don't think he's a cyber thief, just very slow. Not worth the aggravation in my opinion.
markm
Member Since: September 11, 2005
entire network: 1,757 Posts
KitMaker Network: 590 Posts
Posted: Sunday, November 23, 2008 - 02:46 AM UTC
So Mods - if you're reading this, how about it?
Give me a chance here....I just took over this morning as the host of this forum
At the very least we might give a shot to a stickied thread where the evildoers are listed. That way everyone can check before they trade for someone being on the list. I am going to keep this thread stickied to the top with some of the other known problems for now mostly because there IS history with this trader.
Seriously though,
Chaz..please refrain from cross-posting the same thread in more than one forum. Your issue should be in this forum and not the main armor forum
Give me a chance here....I just took over this morning as the host of this forum
At the very least we might give a shot to a stickied thread where the evildoers are listed. That way everyone can check before they trade for someone being on the list. I am going to keep this thread stickied to the top with some of the other known problems for now mostly because there IS history with this trader.
Seriously though,
Chaz..please refrain from cross-posting the same thread in more than one forum. Your issue should be in this forum and not the main armor forum
sniper34
Member Since: June 02, 2008
entire network: 229 Posts
KitMaker Network: 162 Posts
Posted: Sunday, November 23, 2008 - 09:50 AM UTC
In all fairness, and in my personal endeavors to act civil, I have to post this reply I finally recieved from panzerboy1944 thru regular email written by his sister. Please keep in mind that this is the first email he has sent since the "flu" note early in Nov. He did, however, post on Model-Geek in the middle of that month. Not to me, waiting for word of the trade, but looking for figures. I;ll wait for the kits he owes me for a full apology. I am not above admitting I was wrong.
Dear Sir
I am writing to you thru my brothers (Lee Cleeton) eamil account
He anted me to awnser his emails he had surgery and then had a relapse and they had to operate
again,He is still in the Hospital he is doing much better now, He also want me to let you know he hasnt forgot you I am to mail your packages out to you for him it will be after work on monday ok forgive him he is a good guy ok please
Sincerly
Melissa
I will say this now: If all this is true, and I hope it is, I honestly wish him a speedy and healthy recovery. I experienced two serious operations in my life and can sympathize with what he is going thru.-CHAZ.
Dear Sir
I am writing to you thru my brothers (Lee Cleeton) eamil account
He anted me to awnser his emails he had surgery and then had a relapse and they had to operate
again,He is still in the Hospital he is doing much better now, He also want me to let you know he hasnt forgot you I am to mail your packages out to you for him it will be after work on monday ok forgive him he is a good guy ok please
Sincerly
Melissa
I will say this now: If all this is true, and I hope it is, I honestly wish him a speedy and healthy recovery. I experienced two serious operations in my life and can sympathize with what he is going thru.-CHAZ.
markm
Member Since: September 11, 2005
entire network: 1,757 Posts
KitMaker Network: 590 Posts
Posted: Sunday, November 23, 2008 - 09:59 AM UTC
Please keep me informed on the progress of this deal. I will release this post from the bad/slow trader list as soon as i am notified that everything has worked out.
KoSprueOne
Member Since: March 05, 2004
entire network: 4,011 Posts
KitMaker Network: 879 Posts
Posted: Sunday, November 23, 2008 - 10:06 AM UTC
This sticky warning post idea is good.
Someone started a good trader list a while back. Maybe stick that one up here too.
Someone started a good trader list a while back. Maybe stick that one up here too.
KoSprueOne
Member Since: March 05, 2004
entire network: 4,011 Posts
KitMaker Network: 879 Posts
Posted: Sunday, November 23, 2008 - 10:17 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Chaz,
. . .
Either way, it's impossible for us to say with absolute certainty what the situation is - so perhaps it's time for the powers-that-be here to consider introducing some sort of eBay-style feedback system for trading, so that guys can see immediately and at a glance what sort of experiences (good or bad) others have had when dealing with the same potential trading partners?
I think that would be much better and far clearer to all than the current method of guys posting "good trader notices" (or indeed "warnings") that soon get lost in the mix as new posts appear.
So Mods - if you're reading this, how about it?
- Steve
That may be more work than Admin. wants to open up anytime soon.
A Good Trader List can be made by each posting member and can be updated the same way. This list would work if it was also sticky up here.
eg: http://modelgeek.kitmaker.net/forums/120313#991400
youngc
Member Since: June 05, 2007
entire network: 2,166 Posts
KitMaker Network: 473 Posts
Posted: Sunday, November 23, 2008 - 10:32 AM UTC
I talked to him here, he was actively posting on the 15th November.
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/128565&page=1
He last visited the forums on the 23rd Nov, yesterday. He posts a heck of a lot in the BST forum. I wouldn't be surprised if he's just after some dishonest steals.
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/128565&page=1
He last visited the forums on the 23rd Nov, yesterday. He posts a heck of a lot in the BST forum. I wouldn't be surprised if he's just after some dishonest steals.
markm
Member Since: September 11, 2005
entire network: 1,757 Posts
KitMaker Network: 590 Posts
Posted: Sunday, November 23, 2008 - 10:54 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextChaz,
. . .
Either way, it's impossible for us to say with absolute certainty what the situation is - so perhaps it's time for the powers-that-be here to consider introducing some sort of eBay-style feedback system for trading, so that guys can see immediately and at a glance what sort of experiences (good or bad) others have had when dealing with the same potential trading partners?
I think that would be much better and far clearer to all than the current method of guys posting "good trader notices" (or indeed "warnings") that soon get lost in the mix as new posts appear.
So Mods - if you're reading this, how about it?
- Steve
That may be more work than Admin. wants to open up anytime soon.
A Good Trader List can be made by each posting member and can be updated the same way. This list would work if it was also sticky up here.
eg: http://modelgeek.kitmaker.net/forums/120313#991400
I have no problem at all with building and maintaining a bad trader list here. The biggest probllem I would have is clearing the list if a mistake was made as I would have to be notified. With some of the dollar amounts involved in these deals....better safe than sorry.
bill_c
Campaigns AdministratorMember Since: January 09, 2008
entire network: 10,553 Posts
KitMaker Network: 880 Posts
Posted: Monday, November 24, 2008 - 03:06 AM UTC
I'm sorry to hear about panzerboy's health problems. When he took for-#$)&ing-ever to send out my half on a trade, it was his mom's health that was the problem. Either that's one very unlucky family or he's conning you.
RedHornet
Member Since: January 14, 2005
entire network: 20 Posts
KitMaker Network: 4 Posts
Posted: Monday, November 24, 2008 - 04:46 AM UTC
Gents:
I'm hoping that it turns out well for everyone.
I'm waiting on my half of a trade for nigh-on 3 weeks now.
I'm at this point not expecting to get my part of the trade, but we'll see.
I'm hoping that it turns out well for everyone.
I'm waiting on my half of a trade for nigh-on 3 weeks now.
I'm at this point not expecting to get my part of the trade, but we'll see.
Sabot
Member Since: December 18, 2001
entire network: 12,596 Posts
KitMaker Network: 2,557 Posts
entire network: 12,596 Posts
KitMaker Network: 2,557 Posts
Posted: Monday, November 24, 2008 - 08:38 AM UTC
Quoted Text
That's normally the problem; bad trader gets his feet put to the fire via forums; eventually makes good after some heartbreaking reasons; people forgive and forget; repeat process six months later.Please keep me informed on the progress of this deal. I will release this post from the bad/slow trader list as soon as i am notified that everything has worked out.
markm
Member Since: September 11, 2005
entire network: 1,757 Posts
KitMaker Network: 590 Posts
Posted: Monday, November 24, 2008 - 08:55 AM UTC
Agreed, but with the past actions on this particular one.....he will be on the list as a slow trader at the very least. 
18Bravo
Member Since: January 20, 2005
entire network: 7,219 Posts
KitMaker Network: 981 Posts
Posted: Monday, November 24, 2008 - 11:59 AM UTC
Hmmm...
One of our very own frequent acerbic posters never made good on a trade with me almost two years ago. Granted, it was for small items I no longer even need. Claims he didn't know my address. Seems that the self apointed smartest man in the room should be able to figure out the Message function here, or look up my email address from one of my posts on M-L. I guess it all boils down to character.
Another M-L poster uses Katrina for his failure, but didn't seem to have computer problems a year after the hurricane. Guess he needed the T-34 turrets more than I did. Sure hope he's able to model now, what with his inability to mail an item back and all...
One of our very own frequent acerbic posters never made good on a trade with me almost two years ago. Granted, it was for small items I no longer even need. Claims he didn't know my address. Seems that the self apointed smartest man in the room should be able to figure out the Message function here, or look up my email address from one of my posts on M-L. I guess it all boils down to character.
Another M-L poster uses Katrina for his failure, but didn't seem to have computer problems a year after the hurricane. Guess he needed the T-34 turrets more than I did. Sure hope he's able to model now, what with his inability to mail an item back and all...
KoSprueOne
Member Since: March 05, 2004
entire network: 4,011 Posts
KitMaker Network: 879 Posts
Posted: Monday, November 24, 2008 - 01:44 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I have no problem at all with building and maintaining a bad trader list here. The biggest probllem I would have is clearing the list if a mistake was made as I would have to be notified. With some of the dollar amounts involved in these deals....better safe than sorry.
I re-read my post and wasn't clear in detail. I meant it may not be possible to make an e bay style pos and neg system. But a thread where members list by call sign name, their trades/sales/purchases, may be easier.
Or,
a note in our profiles indicating 1 or more outstanding deals that are currently unresolved. This way, a potential buyer or trader can click on the member's profile and see if there is a problem or not.
sniper34
Member Since: June 02, 2008
entire network: 229 Posts
KitMaker Network: 162 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 - 05:09 PM UTC
I got an email from panzerboy1944's sister tonite. She has mailed the trade to me Mon nlte as she said she would, with a tracking number. Panzerboy will be home for Thanksgiving. It seems that she is using his computer to contact people. She wants me to give redhornet (?) his email. I put it on the first post but it is .net not .com. [email protected] is the correct email address. Again, I will repost after my stuff comes. Thanks all.-CHAZ. 
RedHornet
Member Since: January 14, 2005
entire network: 20 Posts
KitMaker Network: 4 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 04:50 AM UTC
Thank you very much for the update on this and the corrected email address.
I have sent an email per the sister's request.
Once again, thanks much.
Scott
I have sent an email per the sister's request.
Once again, thanks much.
Scott
SSgt1Shot
Member Since: December 01, 2004
entire network: 535 Posts
KitMaker Network: 305 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 05:41 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextThat's normally the problem; bad trader gets his feet put to the fire via forums; eventually makes good after some heartbreaking reasons; people forgive and forget; repeat process six months later.Please keep me informed on the progress of this deal. I will release this post from the bad/slow trader list as soon as i am notified that everything has worked out.
So true, I've traded many items of many types on many forums of many things and it never fails that someone will be a bad trade and have some sappy sad heart break story about why ... I call them excuses and I have no time for them.
I had a trade I was doing, I got called out of town and I had to order a model I was going to trade and have it shipped to the person I was trading with in order to keep my word.
I man (person) is only as good as their word and I'm a firm believer in keeping your word at all cost even if it cost you more in the end. Your word is like trust, easy to loose hard to get.
sniper34
Member Since: June 02, 2008
entire network: 229 Posts
KitMaker Network: 162 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 06:07 AM UTC
What a surprise!!! The tracking number doesn't show on USPS site! OMG!!
markm
Member Since: September 11, 2005
entire network: 1,757 Posts
KitMaker Network: 590 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 06:13 AM UTC
Well panzerboy has been coming online late in the evening for the past few nights. More than likely long enough to read these posts then sign off.
panzerboy1944
Member Since: January 08, 2007
entire network: 236 Posts
KitMaker Network: 126 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 08:04 AM UTC
Hi all
I am back what is with all this hostilty on here I am sorry I have beengone but I havent ripped any body off I have had 2 open heart surgeys in 2 months of each other what I thought was the Flu was actullay two valves closing up on me, I pologize for my absent my sister god bless her has tryed to fix the problems on here for me and has trying find the people on here for me she finally located the site and has been looking for me and everybody still complains try walking in my shoes and I doubt anybody would say a word so stop trying to ruin me on here people I am honest person and not no darn crook
Thanks Lee
I am back what is with all this hostilty on here I am sorry I have beengone but I havent ripped any body off I have had 2 open heart surgeys in 2 months of each other what I thought was the Flu was actullay two valves closing up on me, I pologize for my absent my sister god bless her has tryed to fix the problems on here for me and has trying find the people on here for me she finally located the site and has been looking for me and everybody still complains try walking in my shoes and I doubt anybody would say a word so stop trying to ruin me on here people I am honest person and not no darn crook
Thanks Lee
sniper34
Member Since: June 02, 2008
entire network: 229 Posts
KitMaker Network: 162 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 08:08 AM UTC
The emails I got were at nite, from his sister. She was helping with his emails. He was to come home today from the hospital. Maybe he himself will be online in the next day or two. Ever the optomist.
RedHornet
Member Since: January 14, 2005
entire network: 20 Posts
KitMaker Network: 4 Posts
Posted: Friday, November 28, 2008 - 11:31 AM UTC
I just wanted to let everybody know that my trade kit from Panzerboy arrived through the mail today.
Everything was as expected.
Thanks Lee!
Everything was as expected.
Thanks Lee!
panzerboy1944
Member Since: January 08, 2007
entire network: 236 Posts
KitMaker Network: 126 Posts
Posted: Friday, November 28, 2008 - 12:03 PM UTC
Hi Scott
Cool beans I told you everything would arrive and thanks so much for putting this on here
I am not a crook just had alittle trouble on my end well maybe it was alittle more than that
but I am glad you are happy
Thanks Lee
Cool beans I told you everything would arrive and thanks so much for putting this on here
I am not a crook just had alittle trouble on my end well maybe it was alittle more than that
but I am glad you are happy
Thanks Lee
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