Quoted Text

---

The million sherman vs one lone KT scenario is not very plausible if you take a look at the fact that the Western Allies (and Russians, too) had absolute air superiority, and overwhelming artillery support. The Russians were sometimes pressed into charges, but on the Western Front whenever strong opposition was met, the armor retreated, and let the artillery/fighter-bombers take care of the problem. This sort of mindless assault was never adopted by the Western Allies. So even if the 88 guns on the KTs could shoot so many projectiles without wearing down/overheating in so little time, the simple fact that the Allies would have not lingered on the scene long enough makes it unlikely.

---

CAS was not always successful; it ruined the German's Operation Lüttich, but did not stop the Germans from decimating the Allies during Operation Goodwood and Operation Totalize.

After reading STEEL INFERNO, PANZER ACES I & II, TIGERS IN THE MUD, GRENADIERS and both volumes of MICHAEL WITTMANN, I was amazed by air support's effect. It was frequently decisve, but not by blowing up tanks (which it seems was not common). Rather by keeping them buttoned up, making them move--or keeping them from moving to where they were needed--and mainly by destroying the trucks that brought them POL and ammo.

Also what would "penetrated" mean in that context? As in literally penetrating, the tanks (destroying them) or being able to put yourself into a position where a attack is possible.

Quoted Text

---

Also what would "penetrated" mean in that context? As in literally penetrating, the tanks (destroying them) or being able to put yourself into a position where a attack is possible.

---

A tanker told me that today we classify a "kill" as a:

K-Kill -- catastrophic destruction of the vehicle
M-kill -- mobility kill
F-kill -- firepower kill

In WW 2 terminology, I would read "penetrated" as literally penetrating.

I don't recall which, but in Armor Battles of the Waffen-SS, 1943-45 by Will Fey, and/or companion Panzer Aces II, I was again surprised at how Tigers and Panthers were 'shot to pieces' by inferior guns. One, in Normandy, a Panther guarded a bend in the road; a column of Shermans appeared, and pummeled the Panther; the author wrote how the pounding eventually cracked the weld seams, and the armor plates separated. Sunlight shone into the tank. Sometimes the crews bailed out, sometimes they drove away. But actually piercing the armor plate was not effected.

As for whether an American or British force would retreat to spare their tanks, George Forty's book German Tanks of World War Two in Action begins with a British ( or Canadian ) officer traveling right after the war. He described coming across a scene with dozens of Allied tanks blown to pieces by a single Jagdtiger (which he noted was still on the ridge, destroyed by its crew when it ran out of ammo.)

Sometimes contingencies required less than ideal operations. Recall in Death Traps by Belton Cooper, he wrote that a pressing need for tank crews lead the US Army to take infantry right off the ship, put them into tanks, and send them into combat with just hours of training. None survived.

Randall;

There was mentioned in the book I had previously noted several situations about the Tactical Air Force attacking firendly forces. In one such situation some armor was disabled and a counterattack had to be called off due to casualties incurred during the straffing by "friendlies".

Mike T.