I was on a weekend exercise with my reserve unit and during the AAR we got on to the topic of providing covering smoke and means to deploy it. Someone mentioned smoke rounds for the M203A1 but my CSM said it's being phased out of service. Is this true? Why does the DND keep crappy kit like the Sea King in service while getting rid of things that work?

Who knows, maybe something even better is on the way.

LOL....thats funny.....The Canadian Armed Forces with something better on the way.

Not sure why they are phasing out the 203.....but they should give their head a shake......unfortunatly if they truly are phasing it out....the forces will no doubt have to go without, even if there is a replacement...maybe on the way. Going to be this way till we get a new gov't.....ie: not a liberal one!!!!

Something better on the way? I doubt it. A "Liberal" government doesn't apply to DND spending. The M203 on my course was a cool weapon, couldn't out do the C6 or C9. Only ever fired a 40mm chalk round, but it was still fun. While I'm at it, I should find the retard who put a C79 scope on the C9.

They may not dictate the DND spending....but they do make the budget for the DND, which directly effects DND spending.....if the gov't don't give...the DND can't spend....which is why the DND specifically the Navy is still flying 50-60 year old airframes in the Sea King, why we are still using antiquated MBTs in the Leopard....why the Army has to retain some of the 113s we were supposed to replace with the LAV, because the LAV can't keep up and go places across the battlefield that the Leopard goes....but that the 113 can. Our CF-18s are still pretty much in their original configuration from when we bought them some 20 years ago.

There have been years of cuts to the military budget by the Liberals, which is the chief reason why Canada didn't follow the US and the UK into Iraq, we couldn't afford it.....had nothing to do with the UN resolutions....we simply couldn't afford it.

Just my 2 cents!!

Well, I was a much better shot with the old M-79 anyway.

Something about an 'over and under' 20mm in the works down here. Half the size but similiar 'results'.

Hey, I'm 1/2 Canadian. :-)

Correct me if I am wrong, but isnt the sea king the same as a CH 53? those things are the cadillac of the sky man! The US is still using b-52s, which are how old? don't forget the Chinook! The UH 1 still gets around in some roles too! oh, and how about the MA DEUCE! M2 .50.....that sucker entered service in 38!!!! As far as a replacement for the 203, (which was always my favorite...(My squad leader always said I threw like a girl....and I would always reply with, thats why I am so d@mn good with the 203) kkeefe said about an over under, I can't remember the name of that thing, but it looks pretty cool. 20 or 25 mm AIRBURST grenades!!! OOH, speaking of that, you all should do a net search on the OCW or OCIW. the gun that is supposed to replace the 240b, M2, and Mk 19!

Do you mean OICW and OCSW (the gun and the grenade launcher)?

Yeah that one.

No the Sea King is not the same as the CH-53. Completly different bird.

I would have to agree that the US and other nations are contiuing to use older equipment such as the B-52 and the like....however...the US constintly updates and improves the AC...yes most of the B-52 airframes outdate pretty much anyone flying them....but thats just it....only the airframes actually remain as the oldest part....everything else has been updated and improved.

The Canadian Sea King on the other hand is not the case....sure it has been updated over the years and improved upon...but not like other AC.....as the Candian gov't sees fit to cancel contracts that would equip the Canadian SAR and Naval forces with new helicopters, namely EH-101 Merlin, but when the Liberals took power they promptly canceled the contract saying that it was too costly for the Canadian taxpayer, meanwhile paying over a $500 million in penalties, as well as lost Canadian lives in accidents involving the Sea Kings since....Oh and the best part? 3 years after the Liberals canceled the EH-101 contract...they go through another flyoff with helicopters and turn around and re-choose the EH-101 to replace the CH-113 Labradors (CH-46s for you US folk), so at least now the SAR groups are getting new birds....but nothing on the board or even speculating when our 50yr old Sea Kings are going to be replaced......however as our destroyer HMCS Iroquois was 2 days out of Halifax on her way to the Persian Gulf, her Sea King was conducting routine drills when it crashed on deck and was a total loss!! Quite and embarassment, especially since the Navy didn't have another Sea King ready to replace the downed bird....so Iroquis came back to Halifax, had the Sea King removed from her deck by a crane, and she headed back out with the HMCS Fredericton, (which was also being deployed to the Gulf) without her helicopter compliment......it was sent on a civie transport ship over a month later after it left....and is still enroute to the Gulf!!!!

Ok....I am done venting!!!

Wow, this is quite the string of replies. I agree with viper29_ca, the US updates everything at the right time while us Canadians wait for our helicopters to fall apart, then maybe we fix them. The Cdn army has also phased out the M2 and is mounting C9 and C6 on M113's. Guess the it's a see-saw battle. The CF finds something it likes then the gov't takes it away, or the gov't gives us something and changes it's mind, such as cancelling the EH-101.

Phasing out the M203 !!!! What I don't think so. We just got the new mods in Battalion last year. Even TOW platoon has 4 of the things. I don't know what your CSM was talking about but I think he's wrong.

Here is a link to site with info on the OICW.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/oicw.htm

Mail Call on the History Channel has a good piece on how it works and shows the Manufacturer testing the weapon. It will take the Army quite a while to phase the 203 out of service. The OICW is computerized on how ranging works for the 20mm grenades detonation. Cost alone will be prohibitive for some time with only QRFs (82nd, 101st, 75th Reg.) being the first upgraded with these systems, probably. Not sure on the variety of munitions that will be available. So far I have only heard about air-bursting fragmentation gernades.

Enjoy.

The M203 grenade launcher is an ideal weapon for infantrymen who need to clear an area easily. It is quite useful for battles on the go. And its very economical. You don't need to cary the M-79 and a rifle in a battle. That's quite heavy and anoying because you change weapons. I say that they don't phase out this M203 or if they had a better weapon, why not use it?

Thanks everybody for your input. Hopefully the CF won't phase it out and leave us troops high and dry without any section level firepower. We had M72's

Phasing out the M-203?

What a waste... It's proven it's usefulness since it's early days....

Apparently the M203 is getting quite good reviews from the troops in Iraq:

OIF AAR

Say what you will about the Sea King but at the end of the day its a decent bit of kit. With regards to your defence spending - when i was on excercise with Princess Patricias Canadian light infantry (sure thats who they were, but talking some time ago now) the general view of the guys there was that yes they were always cutting back on defence but you really dont need it, after all nobody would consider invading Canada as they would be a threat to the US, they also pointed out that where ever they went on UN tours etc they were normally flown round by either the Brits or The Us depending on who were the closest.

Maybe your CSM was talking about the actual round being phased out.

least their no as stupid as the british goverenment on the last scrap in the gulf they had no
desert cammo because they had sold it all the the iraqi's same this time round struggeling to get boots and stuff but you go into a surplus shop round here and you can buy ex-mod stuff brand new whilst I'm issued 2nd hand peices of uniform,

dead cleaver that! #:-)